gnumantsc
join:2003-07-23
 ·ELECTRONICBOX
|  Speed Issues...
Then maybe 10-15 mins go by I'm back down to 1Mbit and if I reset my router I'm back at full speed.
WTF is causing this? It is absolutely driving me insane. I'm using a wireless card with a Linksys router running Tomato 1.25. The modem is a Gnet BB0060.
Same thing occurs even after resetting modem. | |
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 planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
4 edits | Re: Speed Issues... said by gnumantsc  :I don't know if anyone has this but lately I've been running speedtests and get 1Mbit speed. Then I reboot my router and then get 4.2-4.6Mbit speeds and downloads go fast. Then maybe 10-15 mins go by I'm back down to 1Mbit and if I reset my router I'm back at full speed. WTF is causing this? It is absolutely driving me insane. I'm using a wireless card with a Linksys router running Tomato 1.25. The modem is a Gnet BB0060. Same thing occurs even after resetting modem. This scenario has been posted several times. (E.g.: »Sometimes gradual speed loss ~ hav to resync )
Invariably, several "helpers" show up, each one with the subliminal message "I once had a quasi-religious experience and I think your problem needs my ritual solution, and anyone who suggests anything else is a devil."
Others may suggest a rational, scientific, diagnostic approach. (me  )
ISP reps may say "we'll look into it privately."
Then there is nothing.
Did it turn out to be the OP's foolishness and the OP is ashamed to post the outcome?
Was it the ISP's fault, and the ISP is ashamed to have the outcome posted?
Was it some random fluke and all is well now but no one knows why or what?
Is it continuing and all involved are frustrated to death?
Or was it all due to line-noise which never resulted in modem re-syncs, but which must have been there, because it once was elsewhere, and there are plenty of impressive animated GIFs to prove that it once was elsewhere.
Or what?
# # # # #
To the OP: If you are interested in understanding your problem, rather than having someone "fix" it for you as if by magic, I may be able to help you, but it will require intelligence and discipline on your part.
Should you choose to accept this offer:
Step 1: NEVER REBOOT YOUR ROUTER unless it is unresponsive!!!!! -- (listen to it instead)
Step 2: Never reboot your modem unless it is unreponsive!!! -- (listen to it instead)
Next time this happens ...
examine your router's log ... /var/log/messages*
was there a PPP disconnect event?
were there conntrack table messages?
do you know how to access your router's shell?
does this happen with p2p applications?
Did the modem res-sync? | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: Speed Issues... PouHa! Ha! Ha! Oh boy, ho boy!!!
Well, i'm certainly curious to see
how this one happens to evolve!
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ex bell
@cgocable.net
| said by planiwa : This scenario has been posted several times. ....... WTF was all that?
Some inside joke?
Funny synopsis though.
Clue me some time. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: Speed Issues... ...and i thought i was the only one who hadn't been briefed here!
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| | planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
1 edit | said by ex bell :said by planiwa : This scenario has been posted several times. ....... WTF was all that? Some inside joke? Funny synopsis though. Clue me some time. The problem itself is of genuine technical interest:
... speedtest is slow
... reboot router; reboot modem
... speedtest is fast
... wait 10 minutes
... repeat
I'm sure many would like to see the outcome. I cited an example of one similar scenario, where, apparently, the frustrated user received many different suggestions, leading to more frustration, and, apparently, no outcome. (There was a spin-off thread:
»gradualspeedloss guy, now WITH VIDEO!!! TSI pls LOOK also with no outcome.)
I do hope that this thread is followed to a successful outcome here, or if elsewhere, that the OP will eventually post a summary of what the problem (and solution) will have turned out to be, for the benefit of others in similar circumstances.
I find it interesting that "reboot" or even "factory reset" is often the first measure taken, rather than one of the last to be considered.
Apart from the science of technical problem-solving, I am also interested in the psycho-social aspects of cyber-helping.
And even the psycho-socio-profit-model behind "free internet speed tests". (Isn't it interesting that "no one" "ever" mentions straight-forward, short-haul, accurate, non-commercial, through-put measures?) I find it particularly interesting when people use "internet speed tests" to diagnose DSL line-noise problems.
A question for the experts: "Can line noise (significantly) slow down a DSL-link without changing the sync rate"?
This is something else that I find really interesting. Most conversational transactions in these forums are vertical. Apparently little serious civil collaborative critical technical conversation goes on between experts.
Of course most threads are novice-problem initiated and driven. And most follow-ups are from experts trying to contribute to fixing the particular problem. And often experts do share general knowledge, but mostly "downward".
Perhaps it is easier for novices to question, to listen, and to learn?
(Maybe I'll start a thread with that expert question . . .)
Here it is: »Can line noise slow DSL-"speed" without changing sync rate? | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: Speed Issues... I almost forgot, the only person here to self-proclaim as an "expert" is you. | |
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ex bell
@cgocable.net
| said by planiwa :said by ex bell :said by planiwa : This scenario has been posted several times. ....... WTF was all that? Some inside joke? Funny synopsis though. Clue me some time. Apart from the science of technical problem-solving, I am also interested in the psycho-social aspects of cyber-helping. So I am part of some experiment or thesis of yours?
Perhaps you could publish your findings in a thread here.
As I have done undergrad work in these areas I would be interested in a peer review of your work. | |
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| | | ClickMonster
join:2009-06-15
Senneville, QC
| [BQUOTE=planiwa
I find it interesting that "reboot" or even "factory reset" is often the first measure taken, rather than one of the last to be considered.
[/BQUOTE
Reboot is the first measure taken because we've all be trained by (too) many years of Windows!
Maybe "Grab the error log before rebooting the modem/router" would be a happy compromise? | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | Hi GNumanTSC,
Since Planiwa's interest focusses mainly on, aHummm...
"the science of technical problem-solving" and "psycho-
social aspects of cyber-helping"! - Euh... I suppose the
chore of providing URLs to the available tools falls back
to me... So, here they are. 1st, there's the v2.20 build
of 'DMT' (and no other) which is what the GNet BB0060
requires. 2nd, there's 'RouterStats-Light' (i cooperated
with its author over the addition of support for a similar
product, the "GNet GBB2060-Xi", as it turns out i own a
BB0060B and a GBB2060-Xi as well). I strongly suggest
you obtain each of these nice trouble-shooting utilities:
'DMT v2.20' (171005 Bytes .ZIP file, 2007-May-31)
'RouterStats-Light v4.6' (1161136 Bytes .ZIP file, 2009-Jun-1)
Lets notice that the GNet BB0060B is one of the rare DSL
devices not to suffer from what i've tagged the "amnesia"
syndrome: as long as you don't reset it, the "noise" 24 h
long-term history will be available for 'DMT' to display. On
top of that, 'DMT' gives you some degree of tweakability.
As for 'RouterStats-Light', it complements 'DMT' beautifully
because it can generate long-term SNR Margin curves. One
is TelNet based while the other has an HTTP parser instead
so that means you should be able to run them concurently.
Also, here's the TelNet CLI "bible" - Planiwa might oppose
to using cute Windows GUI tools so i guess you'll need it:
CLI Reference Manual (DO-300171-TC-7) for Viking & Viking II Chip Sets, 5M3
Additionally, here's the User's Manual:
TurboCom EA130 User's Manual v1.0
Remember, try to set your Coding Gain using 'DMT v2.20':
»GNet Tweaking
The "Coding Gain" item is on the lower-right of my image.
Apply then reboot.
As for the rest, it would be premature for me to point you
at a specific thread or post and i must warn you that i've
wrote quite a few anyway... Maybe you'll want to browse
through it all later, maybe not. In any case, here's some:
»/nsearch?board···&old=All
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Briaeros
join:2008-08-29
Canada
| I've seen similar cases before, the actual line profile is unchanged but the modems actual sync rate is down. Rebooting the modem seems to fix it yes but it's obvious that it must be caused by something.
I've noticed that it never seems to occur on certain brand/models such as the Thomson modems.
My guess is a combination of noise and/or errors on the line + the modem has some kind-of feature to automatically lower the sync rate to compensate. The trouble causing the modem to lower sync rate must be minor enough for the connection to not be lost but major enough to warrant such a severe decrease of speed over time.
Still, it doesn't change that if you want to have it fixed in a more permanent way you're going to have to check your modem logs and record all line status details you can while the modem is still slow. The answers should be contained within.
--
Electronic Box Inc. | |
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gnumantsc
join:2003-07-23
·ELECTRONICBOX
| I finally accessed the modem but I can't really do much via browser. I found the IP to be 192.168.7.1 and when I accessed the router it was practically a blank page that had the GNet logo on the right and very view options on the left.
I bought this modem years ago from a person who worked at Inter.net and I tried the default passwords of DSL/DSL and root/root and couldn't do much.
All I saw was DSL stats which showed 5052/512 sync rate and that was it. Probably inter.net bastardized the modem so you couldn't do much.
Now if I only knew the password... | |
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diskace
Ebox Senior
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-21 | Re: Speed Issues... Can you reset the modem ?
--
Electronic Box Inc. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: Speed Issues... ...unless you don't have the "Console" port:
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| | | gnumantsc
join:2003-07-23 | Re: Speed Issues... I don't have the Console port on my modem but I do have the RS232. I have to figure out where I have my null-modem cable though so I could hook it up.
Sadly I don't have a reset button either. I guess I'd have to short it to do a reset. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Speed Issues... Hi,
If it differs so much physically that there's a
standard DB-9 RS-232 console port then i'm
not sure i can tell you where a reset copper
trace might be - if that's what you refer to.
But, if you get access through its serial port,
then here's the command to reset this device
to its factory defaults:
reboot default
...providing that this version of the BB0060 is
still based on the Viking system, naturally!... | |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC | It is always good to take a note of what the IP if the ISP's edge router is (aka: first hop in a traceroute) and note if it changes when you reconnect. | |
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gnumantsc
join:2003-07-23
·ELECTRONICBOX
| Pretty interesting, I've done a tracert to get the first HOP as per OP and noted it down.
2 65 ms 54 ms 76 ms as3menmtl04.3menatwork.com [64.235.192.25]
I've downloaded Kubuntu 9.10 Alpha and speeds ranged from 330-500KB/s. The download took over 30 mins and not once did it drop, then again, I'm using my laptop with XP and not my usual desktop with Vista x64, but that shouldn't make a difference as I'm using the same hardware for modem and router.
I've been doing random speedtests while on the net and could not get it to go slower. The pings varied though but still getting over 4Mbit. | |
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| gnumantsc
join:2003-07-23
·ELECTRONICBOX
| Re: Speed Issues... Ok well I got disconnected and had the exact issue. The first hop out on the network is 64.235.192.24
This happened after the modem was disconnected from the net... I'm starting to wonder if it is something to do with routing through there as my first speedtest was 4.2Mbit and now I barely got 1Mbit.
Diskace could you elaborate on this finding? | |
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Briaeros
join:2008-08-29
Canada
| Re: Speed Issues... said by gnumantsc :Ok well I got disconnected and had the exact issue. The first hop out on the network is 64.235.192.24 This happened after the modem was disconnected from the net... I'm starting to wonder if it is something to do with routing through there as my first speedtest was 4.2Mbit and now I barely got 1Mbit. Diskace could you elaborate on this finding? Interesting, so you're saying that you weren't having any issues at all when your first hop was .25 but now that it's on .24 the issue seems to be back?
That could be pointing to either a hardware issue pertaining directly to the .24 gateway or depending on a few background details (model of the actual gateway) it could potentially be some kind of compatibility issue between that gateway and your modem? I know we've had numerous troubles with GNet modems, the surefire way to know if it's a compatibility thing or not would be to simply test with another modem and compare results.
--
Electronic Box Inc. | |
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| planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| said by gnumantsc :Pretty interesting, I've done a tracert to get the first HOP as per OP and noted it down. 2 65 ms 54 ms 76 ms as3menmtl04.3menatwork.com [64.235.192.25] BTW, within Tomato you can also use: nvram get wan_gateway
and you can get the previous one: nvram get wan_gateway_buf
I would also run two ping probes from the router each time I reconnect, and save the results:
ping -q -c 20 -s 28 $( nvram get wan_gateway)
ping -q -c20 -s1420 $(nvram get wan_gateway)
(This could be fully automated, the results shipped offsite for permanent logging.)
quote:
I've downloaded Kubuntu 9.10 Alpha and speeds ranged from 330-500KB/s. The download took over 30 mins and not once did it drop, then again, I'm using my laptop with XP and not my usual desktop with Vista x64, but that shouldn't make a difference as I'm using the same hardware for modem and router.
I prefer doing network measurements directly from the router, or possibly the modem.
quote:
I've been doing random speedtests while on the net and could not get it to go slower. The pings varied though but still getting over 4Mbit.
Let's hope that the mystery problem does re-appear soon, and when it does, that open-minded efforts will be made to study and learn from it patiently, rather than killing it on sight. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: Speed Issues... Why is it always so hard to get a 'DMT' capture? WHY??? | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: Speed Issues... No, wait! Trash it quick: this is all there's on the menu anyway... | |
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| planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| said by gnumantsc :Well like I stated when I got kicked off the net and checked my uptime it showed like 5 minutes. I didn't reset the modem at all during the .25 and as I stated I was playing with speedtest the whole time and downloading and was getting between 330-515KBps. I don't know why I got disconnected though in the first place while gaming, which got me a bit confused. The connection dropped completely. Did you lose sync?
What did the router's log say?
Did you check how many connections, with QoS Graph?
Oh, I seem to be repeating myself. :-(
Here's a bit of logic for those who may have a use for it:
If you get a reliable speed measurement at 4.2 Mb/s, then, as long as the modem does not resync, you *know* that any "speed" or "disconnect" problem is not a DSL issue.
(Any "speedtest measurement of more than 4.3 on a 5Mb/s profile is bogus.)
And something from experience:
Any "speed", performance, or "connectivity" issues that do not involve modem re-sync, but are associated with P2P applications are most likely rooted on the near side of the DSL link, and most probably due to NAT/conntrack connection surges.
Perhaps someone else with a similar problem may benefit from it, along with the suggestions I made in my first message in this thread.
I find it uncanny that the OP showed no interest in learning about the problem condition when it presented itself again, even after having received specific guidance about what to look for. | |
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| | gnumantsc
join:2003-07-23
·ELECTRONICBOX
| Re: Speed Issues... I'll post the log here from what I get from Tomato, maybe someone could "decrypt" it for me.
I did not check the connections with the QoS Graph. I could check it out and see.
It is not that I don't show interest in the issue, but I am having a hard time getting the darn modem page to work to see if I could get any info off of the modem itself. I tried multiple times to connect to the net without the router and just PC with modem and then running DMT tool but for some reason I was getting errors 691/718 which I know have to do with credentials. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Speed Issues... Nowhere in this thread i could find a mention of
TelNet other than my own, 'DMT v2.20' won't be
able to connect if you can't manage to open a
simple TelNet session using a terminal emulator.
'DMT v2.20', which is the correct build here, is
TelNet-based. No TelNet just means no 'DMT'... | |
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| | | planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| said by gnumantsc :I'll post the log here from what I get from Tomato, maybe someone could "decrypt" it for me. I did not check the connections with the QoS Graph. I could check it out and see. It is not that I don't show interest in the issue, but I am having a hard time getting the darn modem page to work to see if I could get any info off of the modem itself. I tried multiple times to connect to the net without the router and just PC with modem and then running DMT tool but for some reason I was getting errors 691/718 which I know have to do with credentials. I know that it is easy to become consumed by struggling to pursue a singular path ... possibly to its dead end.
My preference is to take a broad, open approach, and not disregarding low-effort, high-insight diagnostic measures.
But whatever works, works, and it may well be more important to do what one feels one must do and be happy, than to try to employ methods that seem obscure, pointless, strange and unnatural, even though they are natural, easy, and effective for others.
Experience can open one's horizon through insight and understanding.
Or limit one's vision by force-fitting new experiences into old patterns. | |
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gnumantsc
join:2003-07-23
·ELECTRONICBOX
| Ok here is a bit of an update. Never type clear in console of the modem hehe.
As I said, I do appreciate everyone's help on this issue. I had to reflash the modem as I typed clear. I made the mistake in thinking that I had the bb0060 modem when in fact I had the 50.
The firmware update gave me a proper screen to look into the settings and I will test it out some more.
Thanks to all of you and I'll monitor with the tools provided. | |
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