Topic 'Re: I don't see a a problem' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22558928 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:14:20 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:14:20 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22563483
Libel and slander has to do with causing harm to an entity by using false statements or testimony and depends on the medium and audience as to whether is qualifies as libel or slander.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22563483 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:48:20 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22562669
As a sales person you can say whatever you want but if you contradict the contract terms or promise what you know you can't deliver you'll probably be fired once the customer complains about it. As you should know, the CSRs have no power to change the terms and if they say something which appears to do that--and the customer relies on that information--the company will duly exercise employee disciplinary procedures and release the customer from whatever obligation resulted. The company can easily escape your fraud allegation by pointing to the contract and their swift, decisive action regarding the agent who exceeded his authority.

Car salesmen are covered by specific laws, and yes if they can get you to buy it they certainly will sell you the worst car on the lot. If you are stupid enough to believe them without taking advantage of the consumer protections the law provides than you deserve to be the sucker.

What school is your law degree from? Mine's DePaul.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22562669 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:26:59 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22562034 precisely just the government:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It's not more than that. It is that. It doesn't need to be expounded on by a link to wikipedia. The words are small and easy to understand, with simple sentence structure.

Become a supporter of reading comprehension, it's in much more danger than free speech. Stop researching, and just read it. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22562034 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:27:03 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561532 said by manfmmd:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

I also think its infiging against my 1st amendment right preventing me from speaking out as I want. But, that's just my two cents.
The 1st Amendment is a limitation on the Federal Governments powers, nothing more. Not private citizens, public or private corporations, just the government.

I wish people would stop misusing it as such.
We both know that is not for me or you to decide, that is for the supreme court to decide.

To point out the facts the first amendment is, can, and has been used in court cases with public and private matters.

The first amendment is more than just a "the government can't make laws against freedom of speech".

If you haven't noticed by now I am a supporter of free speech. I believe everyone should be able to say what they want and feel without fear of retribution (within reason and the situation...ie don't tell a terminal patient he is going to die).

I wish people would do some research.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561532 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:58:10 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561490 said by AlexNYC:

You may want to hide the email addresses from that pdf ...
quote:
Here it is, even though I expose my email, I don't care. Gmail does a good job with spam, and I really don't use it for anything.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561490 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:50:44 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561479 said by Post Now :

Your AT&T Store example has no associated law to be broken. All your recording would do is possibly let you back out of the contract you should have read completely, that does specifically lay out the terms, charges and has a clause stating that store agents and employees do not have the authority to change any of them. You would get the agent in trouble and nothing else would happen. Sorry to pop your balloon.
Please explain your reasoning. No where in the TOS does it say my rate plan?

Also fraud IS a crime.
quote:
A civil fraud typically involves the act of intentionally making a false representation of a material fact, with the intent to deceive, which is reasonably relied upon by another person to that person's detriment.

I can't tell you one thing and turn around do something completely different without the customer being able to do something about it. Are you saying that as a CSR I can say whatever to the customer (such as a cell phone can do this and that) and when they come back and say it doesn't I can tell them to screw off? Absolutely not. If I have in writing or a recording that you were telling me that the cell phone could do X Y and Z just to sell it to me when it doesn't that is fraud plan and simple. What about car salesmen? Do they not have to abide by some rule of conduct? Or can they just tell me the worst car on the lot is the best?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561479 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:49:31 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561461 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561461 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:45:37 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561012 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22561012 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:45:33 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22560715 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22560715 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:50:28 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22560069 said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

I also think its infiging against my 1st amendment right preventing me from speaking out as I want. But, that's just my two cents.
The 1st Amendment is a limitation on the Federal Governments powers, nothing more. Not private citizens, public or private corporations, just the government.

I wish people would stop misusing it as such.
--
If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?

Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22560069 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:59:51 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22559801 said by GeekJedi:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Comcast's Rep Frank told me that using torrent's isn't against the TOS so I don't see how this is (torrent's are technically individual servers and clients in themselves so Frank has now sanctioned using servers on Comcast. Doesn't matter what it says in the TOS; Frank is the mouth piece of corporate.). I have the email to prove it if anyone wants me to post it.
Quote applicable law, please? It's pretty explicitly implied that in the case of ambiguity, the TOS is the final authority on what is allowed or prohibited, not "Frank". "Frank" is in fact not the mouthpiece of the company. If "Frank" told you that your service is free, Comcast would not be obligated to provide you service for free. You don't get to pick and choose here.

But hey, if you feel you've found a loophole, enjoy...
I was waiting for a "you found a loophole but it doesn't work" post.

I think we need a reality check for law. If I walk into a AT&T corp. store and purchase a new phone, ask about data plan and they say it will be free and I have it on recording - if AT&T charges me .01c for data then they have broken the law. In this certain instance I think that would be considered bait and switch. We can even go a step further and say that if I inquired after I had the phone for weeks and they said it would be free - AT&T cannot charge me anything (assuming of course I can prove that they told me it would be free).

Just because a CSR may have said something, doesn't mean they aren't held by law by it. So, your telling me that I can go around saying that this ball of wax is magical healing powers which it really does not?

This isn't a loophole, it's the law. Doesn't matter what the TOS say, if the CSR says it and you have proof - then the company has to abide by it - unless of course we shouldn't trust what CSR tell us? The CSR are the ones that interpert the TOS to the customer, if they don't full understand it, that's not a loophole, that's just stupidity on the companies part and they should higher smarter CSRs or train the ones they have better.

How about this - next time you sign up for service over the phone, such as high speed internet, and the CSR quotes you $50/month but when you get the bill you are paying $60/month don't even think of coming back here to complain because you think it's a "loophole".

To make my point more apparent, and to test those who actually read the PDF, I emailed the RFC definition of a server - you can NOT argue that - to Frank and he indirectly said that torrents and services like logmein that by definition are a server ARE allowed. The next person who posts - think about what I want you to take away from it - not a license for you host servers but a point that ISPs don't care if you do run a server that isn't bandwidth intensive.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22559801 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:13:07 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22559697 said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Comcast's Rep Frank told me that using torrent's isn't against the TOS so I don't see how this is (torrent's are technically individual servers and clients in themselves so Frank has now sanctioned using servers on Comcast. Doesn't matter what it says in the TOS; Frank is the mouth piece of corporate.). I have the email to prove it if anyone wants me to post it.
Quote applicable law, please? It's pretty explicitly implied that in the case of ambiguity, the TOS is the final authority on what is allowed or prohibited, not "Frank". "Frank" is in fact not the mouthpiece of the company. If "Frank" told you that your service is free, Comcast would not be obligated to provide you service for free. You don't get to pick and choose here.

But hey, if you feel you've found a loophole, enjoy...
--
The goal of the broadcast engineer is to get all the meters on the transmitter to go as far to the right as possible!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22559697 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:54:30 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22559538
Even though he does say server's aren't allowed, his response to bittorrent and other service protocols are that those are ok.
You can't pick and choose, I quoted him the RFC definition for server and he still said that Bittorrent and logmein are ok as long as long as its not very high bandwidth requirements. For those who claim that this is "tap dancing" around the TOS - I really doubt any ISP would care if you were carefully using any server on the network. Setting up a file hosting site is a no-no, running your own blog probably wont attract any attention.

I also think its infiging against my 1st amendment right preventing me from speaking out as I want. But, that's just my two cents.
Gmail - [TOS···ons].pdf
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22559538 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:32:06 EDT Re: I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22558990 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22558990 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:59:58 EDT I don't see a a problem http://www.dslreports.com/forum/I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22558928 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/I-dont-see-a-a-problem-22558928 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:51:10 EDT