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manfmmd
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join:2003-01-14
Earth
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reply to Matt
Re: Go Figure

said by Matt See Profile :

said by imanogre See Profile :

I wonder how long until all the Obama fanboys start to realize Obama wasn't about change.... it's just more of the same with a different brand.
I wonder how long until Obama opponents realize the word "change" doesn't mean "change everything?"
What exactly has he changed other than the size of the deficit? (rhetorical question) Dems LOVE to complain about government spending when not in power, only because they are the ones spending it.
--
If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?

Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque


Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

said by manfmmd See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

said by imanogre See Profile :

I wonder how long until all the Obama fanboys start to realize Obama wasn't about change.... it's just more of the same with a different brand.
I wonder how long until Obama opponents realize the word "change" doesn't mean "change everything?"
What exactly has he changed other than the size of the deficit? (rhetorical question) Dems LOVE to complain about government spending when not in power, only because they are the ones spending it.
I'm never going to change your mind, but I'll humor you anyway:

»Re: Bill Maher On Obama

and believe me, I don't like this site I'm about to link to any more than you, but the points are extremely valid: »www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/2···603.html

The stage is being set for us to return to the forefront of science, technology, and education on the world stage. The changes that the news doesn't report going on with science, technology, and healthcare are the foundation for this change. So while you read about the horrible 1.5 trillion healthcare plan, many people fail to realize that's a paltry 150 billion a year to ensure healthcare for all. This lowers employers costs, puts more money in your pocket, and will push for preventative medicine rather than reactive medicine. It's better to not get sick in the first place than get sick and then try to fix it.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

said by Matt See Profile :

The stage is being set for us to return to the forefront of science, technology, and education on the world stage.
LOL. Using "An Inconvenient Truth" as a basis for environmental policy is pretty stupid, considering that the notion that humans are solely responsible for global "warming" is itself laughable and is certainly not settled science.

As for education, 0bama appointed the head of the failed Chicago Public School system to run the Department of Education, and the first thing he did was to end the DC school choice program and kick all of the DC students who were attending superior private schools back into the failed DC Public School system.

Hmm I guess that counts as change!
said by Matt See Profile :

So while you read about the horrible 1.5 trillion healthcare plan, many people fail to realize that's a paltry 150 billion a year to ensure healthcare for all.
If 0bama runs the healthcare system the same way he decided to close the various GM and Chrysler dealerships, then I suppose any savings on healthcare will come by denying it people who oppose him. Change indeed.

There is already ample proof that national socialist healthcare doesn't work (just ask someone who is on Medicare, is in need of a doctor, and can't cough up the cash to pay for supplemental insurance). We don't need to try it here just to be sure. While there are improvements that can be made to lower the price of private insurance, having the government take over the healthcare industry will just create a disaster.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

jester121
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join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
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·ViaTalk

reply to Matt
a. There's nothing paltry about $150 billion.

b. If you claim to believe that that is the real price tag will be anything other than several multiples of $150 billion per year, you are being intellectually dishonest.

c. This won't do anything for employers except cause them to cancel their health plans and send employees to the government dole. So much for $150 billion...


DrModem
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA
·EarthLink
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·PeoplePC

reply to Matt
said by Matt See Profile :

I'm never going to change your mind, but I'll humor you anyway:

»Re: Bill Maher On Obama

and believe me, I don't like this site I'm about to link to any more than you, but the points are extremely valid: »www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/2···603.html

The stage is being set for us to return to the forefront of science, technology, and education on the world stage. The changes that the news doesn't report going on with science, technology, and healthcare are the foundation for this change. So while you read about the horrible 1.5 trillion healthcare plan, many people fail to realize that's a paltry 150 billion a year to ensure healthcare for all. This lowers employers costs, puts more money in your pocket, and will push for preventative medicine rather than reactive medicine. It's better to not get sick in the first place than get sick and then try to fix it.
Oooooooooooooooooooo

Talk.

HE SPOKE PEOPLE.

THAT PROVES E IS OUR SAVIOR BECAUSE HE TALKED.


manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
reply to pnh102
A minor point about the DC school choice stuff, he is allowing those in the program to finish, but new enrollment is being discontinued.

When it's working, change it..


manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:

reply to Matt
Universal Healthcare, what a joke. There goes my tax bill. Not only are we going to be paying to insure, the rich, the young single adults, and those that choose to not get health insurance...we going to be paying to insure illegal aliens.

The 40 million uninsured will only grow when they realize that the tax payers will foot the bill for their health insurance. Corporations and small business alike will also realize this..then where are we, 250 - 300 million on the government dole?
--
If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?

Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
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reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 See Profile :

There is already ample proof that national socialist healthcare doesn't work (just ask someone who is on Medicare, is in need of a doctor, and can't cough up the cash to pay for supplemental insurance).
Or simply talk to any Canadian, or Frenchmen, or countless other people who are given "free" healthcare by their government. Sure, it might sound good (to those with little foresight) but when you are told you will need to wait 11 months for a doctor to treat your potentially terminal illness you might change you mind....
--
D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

reply to manfmmd
said by manfmmd See Profile :

A minor point about the DC school choice stuff, he is allowing those in the program to finish, but new enrollment is being discontinued.

When it's working, change it..
I heard, it is nice to know that our dear leader can be so compassionate.

But then again, DC went 93% for 0bama so it is hard to really feel sorry for the people there.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!


knightmb
Everybody Lies

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service

reply to manfmmd
said by manfmmd See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

said by imanogre See Profile :

I wonder how long until all the Obama fanboys start to realize Obama wasn't about change.... it's just more of the same with a different brand.
I wonder how long until Obama opponents realize the word "change" doesn't mean "change everything?"
What exactly has he changed other than the size of the deficit? (rhetorical question) Dems LOVE to complain about government spending when not in power, only because they are the ones spending it.
The list is so long, it's staggering that you can't do a simple Google search to get it. It's not really worth wasting the time to post up a long list, go Google it (or bing, whatever).

For starters
[*]Closing Guantanamo bay
[*]Stem cell research boost
[*]Credit Card consumer protection laws
[*]Actually trying to end the war in Iraq, our biggest economy drain currently

Should I go on or do you need to check with Rush Limbaugh first so you can come back with more head talking points? LOL
--
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Click Here to pollute their data


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

reply to jester121
said by jester121 See Profile :

b. If you claim to believe that that is the real price tag will be anything other than several multiples of $150 billion per year, you are being intellectually dishonest.
BINGO! The same exact claim was made about Medicare in the 1960s when it was first implemented. We'd be spending "only" $9 billion on it in 1990... LOL.
said by jester121 See Profile :

c. This won't do anything for employers except cause them to cancel their health plans and send employees to the government dole. So much for $150 billion...
Which is exactly what happened in Tennessee when they tried this in the 1990s. Hawaii recently scrapped a similar program because of this same exact problem.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!


manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:

reply to knightmb
said by knightmb See Profile :

For starters
[*]Closing Guantanamo bay
[*]Stem cell research boost
[*]Credit Card consumer protection laws
[*]Actually trying to end the war in Iraq, our biggest economy drain currently
1. Closing Guantanamo - You mean an executive order that doesn't have a plan nor funding? His administration has just over 7 months to complete it...But was about the prisoners? Oh, that's right, he wants to be able to hold them "indefinitely and without trial"

»online.wsj.com/article/SB1242232···765.html
WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration is weighing plans to detain some terror suspects on U.S. soil -- indefinitely and without trial -- as part of a plan to retool military commission trials that were conducted for prisoners held in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

I thought Obama was all about "The rule of law.." Or is that just cliche now?

2. Stem Cell Research - Embryonic stem cell research, although it may hold cures for disease which is yet to be seen, should be funded by the private sector, not the federal government.

3. Credit Card Consumer Protection Laws - On this point I agree and it is good legislation.

4. Iraq War - He's not trying to end it any faster or more logically that the previous administration..He's using the same mantra with "I'm listening to the Generals on the ground...". He is forcing Iraq's hand a bit by setting a timeline for withdrawl. A Republican administration in 2009 would have gone along with, although not 100%, most of the plan for withdrawl when the time was right. I fear we are leaving a void that cannot be completely filled by the existing Iraqi security forces...If they fill the void just fine, remind me and I'll come back and say they were right about setting a timeline..

If you care, we can go into his utter failures:

•Apology Tour 2009
•Venezuela
•Cuba
•North Korea
•Iran
•GM
•Multi-trillion $ deficits (quadrupling what Bush had done in 8 years in just 4 months)
•Government forcing banks that do not need TARP money to take it.
•Continuing the "illegal wiretapping"
•Lack of promised transparency

The list is so long, it's staggering that you can't do a simple Google search to get it. It's not really worth wasting the time to post up a long list, go Google it (or bing, whatever).

Should I go on or do you need to check with the DailyKOS first so you can come back with more head talking points? LOL :P
--
If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?

Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque


major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:

reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez See Profile :

[...] but when you are told you will need to wait 11 months for a doctor to treat your potentially terminal illness you might change you mind....
LMAO. Clearly you have no clue as to what you're even talking about. You just wholesale swallow the spunk your government ejaculates down your throat so you don't start thinking what a raw deal U.S. taxpayers get for all the money they have to pay and pay and get ::ZERO:: in return.
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley


major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
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Stepford, CA
clubs:

reply to manfmmd
said by manfmmd See Profile :

Universal Healthcare, what a joke. There goes my tax bill. Not only are we going to be paying to insure, the rich, the young single adults, and those that choose to not get health insurance...we going to be paying to insure illegal aliens.
Guess what? You already pay for illegals. Or did you think they were getting money from the government and the government was using other sources to finance Pablo & his 52 relatives.
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
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reply to major marco
said by major marco See Profile :

said by wifi4milez See Profile :

[...] but when you are told you will need to wait 11 months for a doctor to treat your potentially terminal illness you might change you mind....
LMAO. Clearly you have no clue as to what you're even talking about. You just wholesale swallow the spunk your government ejaculates down your throat so you don't start thinking what a raw deal U.S. taxpayers get for all the money they have to pay and pay and get ::ZERO:: in return.
Ok so I assume you have traveled extensively in both Canada and Europe (as well as lived In Europe as I have), and spoken to people first hand about this? NO, well then I guess you are just spouting out the 'welfare state' talking points as usual.
--
D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-



JammerMan79
Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC


1 edit
reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez See Profile :

said by pnh102 See Profile :

There is already ample proof that national socialist healthcare doesn't work (just ask someone who is on Medicare, is in need of a doctor, and can't cough up the cash to pay for supplemental insurance).
Or simply talk to any Canadian, or Frenchmen, or countless other people who are given "free" healthcare by their government. Sure, it might sound good (to those with little foresight) but when you are told you will need to wait 11 months for a doctor to treat your potentially terminal illness you might change you mind....
11 months.. ? HA... maybe for an elective surgery. There are always people that fall out of the system that can be used to "prove" a point.. but we can go head to head on google searches on the number of reported on instances.
Still better than going bankrupt for having a nosebleed (or whatever)

Any of you yanks want to talk to me..? that way you can satisfy wifi4milez?
--
I may work for, but do not necessarily represent the views and beliefs of TELUS Communications.


manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:

reply to major marco
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car···it_times

One of the major complaints about the Canadian health care system is waiting times, whether for a specialist, major elective surgery, such as hip replacement, imaging procedures such as MRI or Cystoscopy, or specialized treatments, such as radiation for breast cancer. Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 4 weeks or more to see a specialist; 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room.

A March 2, 2004, article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal stated, "Saskatchewan is under fire for having the longest waiting time in the country for a diagnostic MRI—a whopping 22 months."

A February 28, 2006, article in The New York Times quoted Dr. Brian Day as saying, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years." The Canadian Health Coalition has responded succinctly to these claims, pointing out that "access to veterinary care for animals is based on ability to pay. Dogs are put down if their owners can’t pay. Access to care should not be based on ability to pay." The CHC is one of many groups across Canada calling for increased provincial and federal funding for medicare and an end to provincial funding cuts as solutions to unacceptable wait times. In a 2007 episode of ABC News's 20/20 titled "Sick in Amercia," host John Stossel cited numerous examples of Canadians who did not get the health care that they needed.

According to the Fraser Institute, treatment time from initial referral by a GP through consultation with a specialist to final treatment, across all specialties and all procedures (emergency, non-urgent, and elective), averaged 17.7 weeks in 2005. However, the Fraser Institute's report is greatly at odds with the Canadian government's own 2007 report.

Since 2002, the Canadian government has invested $5.5 billion to address the wait times problem. In April 2007, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced that all ten provinces and three territories would establish patient wait times guarantees by 2010. Canadians will be guaranteed timely access to health care in at least one of the following priority areas, prioritized by each province: cancer care, hip and knee replacement, cardiac care, diagnostic imaging, cataract surgeries or primary care.
You were saying? And don't say "OMG Wikipedia is unreliable"...It's all sourced below.
--
If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?

Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque


manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:

reply to major marco
said by major marco See Profile :

said by manfmmd See Profile :

Universal Healthcare, what a joke. There goes my tax bill. Not only are we going to be paying to insure, the rich, the young single adults, and those that choose to not get health insurance...we going to be paying to insure illegal aliens.
Guess what? You already pay for illegals. Or did you think they were getting money from the government and the government was using other sources to finance Pablo & his 52 relatives.
Which should also stop.
--
If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?

Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

reply to manfmmd
said by manfmmd See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

said by imanogre See Profile :

I wonder how long until all the Obama fanboys start to realize Obama wasn't about change.... it's just more of the same with a different brand.
I wonder how long until Obama opponents realize the word "change" doesn't mean "change everything?"
What exactly has he changed other than the size of the deficit? (rhetorical question) Dems LOVE to complain about government spending when not in power, only because they are the ones spending it.
I notice you do not blame the last president for his role in the balloning of the deficit - which he had quite a large hand in.... Oh how soon the other side forgets the foibles and follies of the preceding Pres.

I am just glad I am not associated with either party.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


JammerMan79
Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC


1 edit
reply to manfmmd
or you could get actual data rather than "news" reports.

»www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-575-x/2···-eng.htm

»www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/qual/acc···-eng.php

now.. I'm not saying that people don't wait, I'm saying that it's an overblown issue. Besides being in the waiting room I have never had to actually wait for any type of issue.. When my doctor thought I had cancer I was in the hospital the next day for testing.. in the hospital the day after that for removal (couldn't biopsy as too risky and the tests were inconclusive), thank goodness it wasn't malignant BUT if it's an issue that cannot wait, then you typically won't wait. I did also acknowledge that ELECTIVE surgery's do indeed have long waiting times.

Is making health care a for profit business really a good thing for anyone other than shareholders?

comparison between the american and canadian systems
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_a···compared

--
I may work for, but do not necessarily represent the views and beliefs of TELUS Communications.
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