  Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
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| reply to manfmmd Re: Go Figure
said by manfmmd :said by Matt :said by imanogre :I wonder how long until all the Obama fanboys start to realize Obama wasn't about change.... it's just more of the same with a different brand. I wonder how long until Obama opponents realize the word "change" doesn't mean "change everything?" What exactly has he changed other than the size of the deficit? (rhetorical question) Dems LOVE to complain about government spending when not in power, only because they are the ones spending it. I'm never going to change your mind, but I'll humor you anyway:
»Re: Bill Maher On Obama
and believe me, I don't like this site I'm about to link to any more than you, but the points are extremely valid: »www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/2···603.html
The stage is being set for us to return to the forefront of science, technology, and education on the world stage. The changes that the news doesn't report going on with science, technology, and healthcare are the foundation for this change. So while you read about the horrible 1.5 trillion healthcare plan, many people fail to realize that's a paltry 150 billion a year to ensure healthcare for all. This lowers employers costs, puts more money in your pocket, and will push for preventative medicine rather than reactive medicine. It's better to not get sick in the first place than get sick and then try to fix it. |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
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| said by Matt :The stage is being set for us to return to the forefront of science, technology, and education on the world stage. LOL. Using "An Inconvenient Truth" as a basis for environmental policy is pretty stupid, considering that the notion that humans are solely responsible for global "warming" is itself laughable and is certainly not settled science.
As for education, 0bama appointed the head of the failed Chicago Public School system to run the Department of Education, and the first thing he did was to end the DC school choice program and kick all of the DC students who were attending superior private schools back into the failed DC Public School system.
Hmm I guess that counts as change!
said by Matt :So while you read about the horrible 1.5 trillion healthcare plan, many people fail to realize that's a paltry 150 billion a year to ensure healthcare for all. If 0bama runs the healthcare system the same way he decided to close the various GM and Chrysler dealerships, then I suppose any savings on healthcare will come by denying it people who oppose him. Change indeed.
There is already ample proof that national socialist healthcare doesn't work (just ask someone who is on Medicare, is in need of a doctor, and can't cough up the cash to pay for supplemental insurance). We don't need to try it here just to be sure. While there are improvements that can be made to lower the price of private insurance, having the government take over the healthcare industry will just create a disaster. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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 jester121 Premium join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL
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| reply to Matt a. There's nothing paltry about $150 billion.
b. If you claim to believe that that is the real price tag will be anything other than several multiples of $150 billion per year, you are being intellectually dishonest.
c. This won't do anything for employers except cause them to cancel their health plans and send employees to the government dole. So much for $150 billion... |
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| reply to Matt said by Matt :I'm never going to change your mind, but I'll humor you anyway: » Re: Bill Maher On Obamaand believe me, I don't like this site I'm about to link to any more than you, but the points are extremely valid: » www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/2···603.htmlThe stage is being set for us to return to the forefront of science, technology, and education on the world stage. The changes that the news doesn't report going on with science, technology, and healthcare are the foundation for this change. So while you read about the horrible 1.5 trillion healthcare plan, many people fail to realize that's a paltry 150 billion a year to ensure healthcare for all. This lowers employers costs, puts more money in your pocket, and will push for preventative medicine rather than reactive medicine. It's better to not get sick in the first place than get sick and then try to fix it. Oooooooooooooooooooo
Talk.
HE SPOKE PEOPLE.
THAT PROVES E IS OUR SAVIOR BECAUSE HE TALKED. |
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  manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs: | reply to pnh102 A minor point about the DC school choice stuff, he is allowing those in the program to finish, but new enrollment is being discontinued.
When it's working, change it.. |
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  manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
| reply to Matt Universal Healthcare, what a joke. There goes my tax bill. Not only are we going to be paying to insure, the rich, the young single adults, and those that choose to not get health insurance...we going to be paying to insure illegal aliens.
The 40 million uninsured will only grow when they realize that the tax payers will foot the bill for their health insurance. Corporations and small business alike will also realize this..then where are we, 250 - 300 million on the government dole? -- If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?
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  wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
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| reply to pnh102 said by pnh102 :There is already ample proof that national socialist healthcare doesn't work (just ask someone who is on Medicare, is in need of a doctor, and can't cough up the cash to pay for supplemental insurance). Or simply talk to any Canadian, or Frenchmen, or countless other people who are given "free" healthcare by their government. Sure, it might sound good (to those with little foresight) but when you are told you will need to wait 11 months for a doctor to treat your potentially terminal illness you might change you mind.... -- D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier -The United States of America-
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
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| reply to manfmmd said by manfmmd :A minor point about the DC school choice stuff, he is allowing those in the program to finish, but new enrollment is being discontinued. When it's working, change it.. I heard, it is nice to know that our dear leader can be so compassionate.
But then again, DC went 93% for 0bama so it is hard to really feel sorry for the people there. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
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| reply to jester121 said by jester121 :b. If you claim to believe that that is the real price tag will be anything other than several multiples of $150 billion per year, you are being intellectually dishonest. BINGO! The same exact claim was made about Medicare in the 1960s when it was first implemented. We'd be spending "only" $9 billion on it in 1990... LOL.
said by jester121 :c. This won't do anything for employers except cause them to cancel their health plans and send employees to the government dole. So much for $150 billion... Which is exactly what happened in Tennessee when they tried this in the 1990s. Hawaii recently scrapped a similar program because of this same exact problem. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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  major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| reply to wifi4milez said by wifi4milez : [...] but when you are told you will need to wait 11 months for a doctor to treat your potentially terminal illness you might change you mind.... LMAO. Clearly you have no clue as to what you're even talking about. You just wholesale swallow the spunk your government ejaculates down your throat so you don't start thinking what a raw deal U.S. taxpayers get for all the money they have to pay and pay and get ::ZERO:: in return. -- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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  major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| reply to manfmmd said by manfmmd :Universal Healthcare, what a joke. There goes my tax bill. Not only are we going to be paying to insure, the rich, the young single adults, and those that choose to not get health insurance...we going to be paying to insure illegal aliens. Guess what? You already pay for illegals. Or did you think they were getting money from the government and the government was using other sources to finance Pablo & his 52 relatives. -- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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  wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
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| reply to major marco said by major marco :said by wifi4milez : [...] but when you are told you will need to wait 11 months for a doctor to treat your potentially terminal illness you might change you mind.... LMAO. Clearly you have no clue as to what you're even talking about. You just wholesale swallow the spunk your government ejaculates down your throat so you don't start thinking what a raw deal U.S. taxpayers get for all the money they have to pay and pay and get ::ZERO:: in return. Ok so I assume you have traveled extensively in both Canada and Europe (as well as lived In Europe as I have), and spoken to people first hand about this? NO, well then I guess you are just spouting out the 'welfare state' talking points as usual. -- D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier -The United States of America-
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  JammerMan79 Premium,VIP join:2004-05-13 Prince George, BC
1 edit | reply to wifi4milez said by wifi4milez :said by pnh102 :There is already ample proof that national socialist healthcare doesn't work (just ask someone who is on Medicare, is in need of a doctor, and can't cough up the cash to pay for supplemental insurance). Or simply talk to any Canadian, or Frenchmen, or countless other people who are given "free" healthcare by their government. Sure, it might sound good (to those with little foresight) but when you are told you will need to wait 11 months for a doctor to treat your potentially terminal illness you might change you mind.... 11 months.. ? HA... maybe for an elective surgery. There are always people that fall out of the system that can be used to "prove" a point.. but we can go head to head on google searches on the number of reported on instances. Still better than going bankrupt for having a nosebleed (or whatever)
Any of you yanks want to talk to me..? that way you can satisfy wifi4milez? -- I may work for, but do not necessarily represent the views and beliefs of TELUS Communications. |
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  manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
| reply to major marco »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car···it_times
One of the major complaints about the Canadian health care system is waiting times, whether for a specialist, major elective surgery, such as hip replacement, imaging procedures such as MRI or Cystoscopy, or specialized treatments, such as radiation for breast cancer. Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 4 weeks or more to see a specialist; 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room.
A March 2, 2004, article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal stated, "Saskatchewan is under fire for having the longest waiting time in the country for a diagnostic MRIâa whopping 22 months."
A February 28, 2006, article in The New York Times quoted Dr. Brian Day as saying, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years." The Canadian Health Coalition has responded succinctly to these claims, pointing out that "access to veterinary care for animals is based on ability to pay. Dogs are put down if their owners can’t pay. Access to care should not be based on ability to pay." The CHC is one of many groups across Canada calling for increased provincial and federal funding for medicare and an end to provincial funding cuts as solutions to unacceptable wait times. In a 2007 episode of ABC News's 20/20 titled "Sick in Amercia," host John Stossel cited numerous examples of Canadians who did not get the health care that they needed.
According to the Fraser Institute, treatment time from initial referral by a GP through consultation with a specialist to final treatment, across all specialties and all procedures (emergency, non-urgent, and elective), averaged 17.7 weeks in 2005. However, the Fraser Institute's report is greatly at odds with the Canadian government's own 2007 report.
Since 2002, the Canadian government has invested $5.5 billion to address the wait times problem. In April 2007, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced that all ten provinces and three territories would establish patient wait times guarantees by 2010. Canadians will be guaranteed timely access to health care in at least one of the following priority areas, prioritized by each province: cancer care, hip and knee replacement, cardiac care, diagnostic imaging, cataract surgeries or primary care.
You were saying? And don't say "OMG Wikipedia is unreliable"...It's all sourced below. -- If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?
Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque |
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  manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
| reply to major marco said by major marco :said by manfmmd :Universal Healthcare, what a joke. There goes my tax bill. Not only are we going to be paying to insure, the rich, the young single adults, and those that choose to not get health insurance...we going to be paying to insure illegal aliens. Guess what? You already pay for illegals. Or did you think they were getting money from the government and the government was using other sources to finance Pablo & his 52 relatives. Which should also stop. -- If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?
Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque |
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  JammerMan79 Premium,VIP join:2004-05-13 Prince George, BC
1 edit | reply to manfmmd or you could get actual data rather than "news" reports.
»www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-575-x/2···-eng.htm
»www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/qual/acc···-eng.php
now.. I'm not saying that people don't wait, I'm saying that it's an overblown issue. Besides being in the waiting room I have never had to actually wait for any type of issue.. When my doctor thought I had cancer I was in the hospital the next day for testing.. in the hospital the day after that for removal (couldn't biopsy as too risky and the tests were inconclusive), thank goodness it wasn't malignant BUT if it's an issue that cannot wait, then you typically won't wait. I did also acknowledge that ELECTIVE surgery's do indeed have long waiting times.
Is making health care a for profit business really a good thing for anyone other than shareholders?
comparison between the american and canadian systems »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_a···compared
-- I may work for, but do not necessarily represent the views and beliefs of TELUS Communications. |
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 cpsycho
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| reply to wifi4milez I live in Canada and our health care system is great. I love those adds on CNN about the doctor who says Canada's health care system sucks. Nothing like paid actors to say what ever you want them to say.
Seriously don't say anything about free health care unless your in it. I don't believe in who ever has more money goes first, that attitude is down right wrong.
I don't Care if I had a billion dollars. If I'm on a waiting list, what would give me the right to think I'm better then anyone else with less money.
Welfare state... LOL
We pay into the system with taxes, that's why our taxes are higher then Americans.
The only people that like the pay as you go system are the ones who have more money then they know what to do with. Those people also think that, if you don't have the money you don't deserve health care. |
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  jhboricua ExMod 2000-01 join:2000-06-06 Minneapolis, MN clubs:
1 edit | reply to manfmmd Nothing like quoting think tanks like the Fraser Institute as reliable sources. 
From Wikipedia: The Institute has been a source of controversy from the beginning. Some charge that Michael Walker, an economist from the University of Western Ontario, helped set up the institute after he received financial backing from forestry giant MacMillan-Bloedel, largely to counter British Columbia's NDP government.[4] then led by Premier Dave Barrett. The relationship, though, was short-lived as MacMillian-Bloedel broke ties with the Institute when it published a book opposing wage and price controls. The CEO of MacMillian-Bloedel at the time supported wage and price controls.
Critics of the Institute and other similar agenda-driven think tanks have claimed the Fraser Institute's reports, studies and surveys are usually not subject to standard academic peer review or the scholarly method. Institute supporters claims their research is peer-reviewed both by internal and external experts.[5] The Institute's Environmental Indicators (6th Ed) has an academic article devoted to its flaws: McKenzie and Rees (2007), "An analysis of a brownlash report", Ecological Economics 61(2-3), pp505-515.
In 2002, a study by Neil Brooks of the left-wing Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives claimed the Institute's widely promoted Tax Freedom Day, described as the date each year when the average Canadian's income no longer goes to paying government taxes, included flawed accounting. The Brooks study stated that the Institute's methods of accounting excluded several important forms of income and inflated tax figures, moving the date nearly two months later in the year.[6] The Institute counters that Professor Brooks confuses the aggregate tax burden with the tax burden borne by those who actually pay tax.[citation needed]
In 1999, the Fraser Institute was attacked by health professionals and scientists[citation needed] for sponsoring two conferences on the tobacco industry entitled "Junk Science, Junk Policy? Managing Risk and Regulation" and "Should government butt out? The pros and cons of tobacco regulation." Critics charged the Institute was associating itself with the tobacco industry's many attempts to discredit authentic scientific work.
In 2004, the Institute published a Crime & Drug Policy paper suggesting the prohibition on marijuana cannot be sustained with the present technology of production and enforcement. Yep, another astroturfing think tank.
And for each one of those overblown occurences cited above, you'll see even more and worse horror stories about people in the US being denied medical procedures.
-- "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * |
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  wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
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| reply to cpsycho said by cpsycho :We pay into the system with taxes, that's why our taxes are higher then Americans. Ahhhh, and now the argument comes full circle! Obama's whole 'pitch' while campaigning was "I will lower your taxes!", and "tax cuts are coming!".
I sincerely thank you (as a Canadian) for pointing out the fallacy of our Dear Leader's statements. Of course 'universal' health care will raise taxes, and thats why so many Americans are opposed to it. Well folks (and doubters) you heard it here right from the source, this universal health care debacle will raise your taxes. -- D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier -The United States of America-
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  pog Premium join:2004-06-03 Kihei, HI
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| said by wifi4milez :this universal health care debacle will raise your taxes. As long as it raises your taxes more... j/k -- My Site |
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