Re: More skewed stats.... in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22571297 en Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:23:48 EDT Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:23:48 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22575501 spewak :
said by older dog See Profile :

Frontier pricing for my region. This is for digital phone and 3/ 383 internet.

High-Speed Internet and Digital Phone Unlimited
One-bill convenience lets you combine Internet, Local and Long Distance Services on a single bill -- or you can pay electronically with our Online Bill Payment.
Prices Starting At $94.99
Just to compare:
My Fiber to the home 25/25 (synchronous) and Unlimited California (Digital Phone) calling plan=$99.00 and some change.

I agree with your assessment of Frontier. Wholeheartedly!
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The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22575501 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:33:43 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22575096 hottboiinnc : Ohio HAD GTE's offices here. They had a HUGE office with all the Excs and such and then a call center down the road a ways. VZ took over, the HQ was phased out, and what was left of the employees were moved to the call center in the basement, sales was pretty much in another state, Tech support in the Ohio office was next to nothing, Repair field tech's were worthless.

Ohio was all system run and only needed human input for orders, after VZ that went away and everything now takes a human that is lucky if they know what they're doing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22575096 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:16:35 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22574671 hottboiinnc : The OCC won't get shit. They'll be paid off just like all the other companies do to them. They're just like the PUC here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22574671 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:55:05 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22573865 anon : imho it is a distortion.

i work in washington state, where frontier has ZERO subscribers.

i don't know how many lines we have (between copper, fios, and fios tv), but i do know washington has 6.5 million people and we carry a SIGNIFICANT percentage of the state.

prior to verizon, GTE Northwest headquartered in Everett, WA was a nearly autonomous operation that ran all of WA, Oregon, Idaho, and northern California.

Since verizon, alot of operations have been gutted/phased out to groups in southern california, but we still have a big arsed building with an FSC, sales groups and still a whole of administration.

i don't know the extent of the verizon operations in ohio, but the article and the DISTORTION of the jump from 480 to 1/2 million subs makes it sound like all the current vz operations will pack up and leave.

even in oregon frontier only has one CO to my knowledge in Myrtle Creek (try and find it on a map).

i've heard verizon is replicating all of the vz systems from billing(don't laugh) to provisioning and all of the divested areas will run of the systems while they are cut away become independent. then frontier will merge them into their systems over time.

i'm not an apologist for frontier or verizon. but i'm cautiously optimistic that this will work out alot better than fairpoint or hawaiian telecom. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22573865 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:25:29 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22573687 S_engineer : upon rereading...you may be right tk]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22573687 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:32:45 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22573588 older dog : Frontier only offers those speeds in a few select areas. Most areas see the max speed capped at 3/383

Edit: I have had RR now for almost a year and prior to that I had Frontier DSL at the same location.
I am about 1200 feet wire length from the CO and the RR node is across the street.

Frontier was generally stable but has increasingly had region wide outages for days, when asked for credit I was ignored.

Several years back Frontier seemed more willing to spend money on improvements. Now they seem more inclined to expand while ignoring the current infrastructure.

RR has not been flawless but almost all my problems have been caused by one tech who when he repairs one line he messes up the neighbors and the reverse is also true.

Bottom line on downloads or speed tests I get 3 times the speed on RR at half the cost.

The major problem with Frontier is that even where they have competition they charge far higher prices with far less service for your money.

Frontier pricing for my region. This is for digital phone and 3/ 383 internet.

High-Speed Internet and Digital Phone Unlimited
One-bill convenience lets you combine Internet, Local and Long Distance Services on a single bill -- or you can pay electronically with our Online Bill Payment.
Prices Starting At $94.99 ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22573588 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:18:59 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22572566 OSUGoose : No, in terms of Ohio regulators eyes, they only footprint here they have is that 480 in williams co. why would we care they have 2.3 mil total subs elsewhere. In ohio they would be growing by 1000% in size. Thus the reason why its being looked at carefully.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22572566 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:24:40 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571827 MAR_03_2002 :
said by S_engineer See Profile :

hey karl, hit the link I posted on top, and see If I'm right about Frontier taking over regardless of this suspension.
That isn't the way I read that info. The suspension stops the automatic 30 day clock. And the 30 day clock won't resume UNTIL the suspension is lifted. The suspension WAS an order issued before the 30 day clock expired.

If the commission had not issued the suspension(or a denial), then the merger would have been approved automatically on June 29.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571827 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:37:20 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571788 Karl Bode : I think you're right. I'll add that to the writeup...thank you....

Going to fling the wording at a municipal attorney I know to confirm.....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571788 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:32:51 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571737 S_engineer : hey karl, hit the link I posted on top, and see If I'm right about Frontier taking over regardless of this suspension.
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BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571737 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:23:31 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571624 cdru :
said by battleop See Profile :

Is there some wall around the state of Ohio that would not allow them to draw from resources that are out side of the state?
Not walls, but I believe telcos usually operate as distinct business entities within a state for regulatory reasons. Someone feel free to correct me. What the public sees is the parent company. There wouldn't be anything to say that resources from the parent company, but the amount of regulatory and administrative overhead going from a few hundred customers to a few hundred thousands customers is quite a jump, more then just what simply drawing in their existing resources may be able to give them.

Personally I think all states involved should do as Ohio is doing. Maybe not necessarily suspend the approval, but definitely investigate what Frontier can handle, what their plan is for transitioning and future management too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571624 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:04:42 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571522 battleop : "chance of being screwed by bad service and no upgrades."

If Verizon is trying to dump them they are probably already there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571522 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:50:08 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571513 battleop : "I think you confuse omission with intentional maliciousnes"

I don't think there is anything intentional, it's a case of another reporter who does not understand anything about what they are reporting on. Similar to a sports reporter trying to report on a medical story.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571513 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:48:30 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571510 Smith6612 : Per the barely being able to take 3Mbps, might I add that out in Rochester NY, and in a few places around the US Frontier has people running off of 6Mbps and 10Mbps speeds that hold reliably. I'm almost positive that Frontier isn't having issues holding the higher speeds since they've been doing a bunch of upgrades to their networks, and that story was caused by someone looking to save some money, thus getting their speed turned down. Frontier actually used to offer 6Mbps in my area to Residents (which they removed as a choice a year ago), but since they had run out of bandwidth several months ago and brought more in, they only offer 6Mbps to businesses right now in my area. A Frontier tech at the CO though did tip me off that they are installing some new equipment/DSLAMS at the CO, and thanks to the huge amount of bandwidth the CO now has after boosting their fiber line, they may be setting up my area for 6+Mbps very soon to residents. The same tech also stated that he'd allow me to try out my line at the fastest sync rate it can hold (looking to be at roughly 6Mbps, higher with ADSL2+) once they finish upgrading things in my area to help them test things out rather than just allowing people to get it and sitting back to see what happens. The tech knows that I'm one of the heaviest users that Frontier has in the area who knows a lot about these things, so he sees it as a good thing to set me higher and hammer the connection.
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It's all fun and games in a Team Fortress 2 battle until your sentry gun is sapped by the Spycrab!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571510 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:47:56 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571508 JSRoman : The wall is the giantic debt that comes with the acquisition of those subs. Yes they are getting paying customers but from what has been the track record with these deals the benefit goes to seller and not buyer or customers who are sold.

These areas are between a rock and a hardplace. Either the stay with VZ and get forgotten or the get purchased by a smaller carrier and have a chance of being screwed by bad service and no upgrades.

Good luck to Frontier refinanacing that debt in the future.
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»www.seabee.navy.mil]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571508 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:47:37 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571488 battleop : I am not referring to anything you wrote, as most people here would understand that they are a multi-state company. I would consider the over whelming majority of BBR to be above average and would understand that they have more than 480 customers.

To the Average Joe Shmuck it sounds like some tiny company is going to take over their phone service and it that their phone service will probably get cut off. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571488 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:45:15 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571439 Karl Bode :
Frontier would go from 2.3 million lines to 4.8 million phone lines and 1 million broadband connections.
Actually, it's taking 2.3 million lines and adding 4.8 million more lines and 1 million broadband connections, not totaling 4.8 million phone lines.

Huge, huge growth for a fairly small operator.

"With more than 7 million access lines in 27 states, we will be the largest provider of voice, broadband and video services focused on rural to smaller city markets in the United States," the CEO announced back when the deal dropped.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571439 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:38:28 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571435 battleop : Is there some wall around the state of Ohio that would not allow them to draw from resources that are out side of the state? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571435 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:37:47 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571407 Karl Bode :
There is no doubt that they suck, but the story is misleading to the uneducated cowsumer.
If the "uneducated cowsumer" can't read the headline highlighting the story's from Ohio, the repeated references within the story to the fact this is just concerning "Verizon's operations in Ohio," then I don't know what we can do for them. The article should have probably stated Fairpoint's total numbers, but I think you confuse omission with intentional maliciousness. I've added the transfer totals (including employees) to the first paragraph of our breakdown in order to protect readers from the supposed viciousness of the Columbus Dispatch.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571407 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:34:34 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571384 JSRoman : I think we are looking at different articles.

It looks to me that Frontier currently only has 480 subs in that area of Ohio. If they take over area from VZ their sub count would jump to 435k subs. That is 90,000% percent increase in subs not to mention the mountain of debt that come with that purchase.
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»www.seabee.navy.mil]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571384 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:31:28 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571368 Hi :
said by MAR_03_2002 See Profile :

Frontier would go from 2.3 million lines to 4.8 million phone lines and 1 million broadband connections. »money.aol.com/article/verizon-fr···l/479784

Certainly a big increase. But nothing like the distortion in the story of going from 480 to 435,000 in 1 state.
Where is the distortion in the news piece? Do you and others just skim by a few lines, and not read the entire the news piece. He pointed out 1 county in ohio having only 480 customers, to getting nearly 500k subs, close to 77 counties.

my son told me a great line. /facepalm lol
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The more you talk, the less you listen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571368 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:28:55 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571356 battleop : To the average Joe Blow it sounds like some small company with only 480 customers is getting ready to jump to almost 500,000 customers. There is no doubt that they suck, but the story is misleading to the uneducated cowsumer.

I made my statement to point out how the numbers were skewed not to point out their ability or inability to take over the customers. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571356 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:27:26 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571297 Karl Bode : I think you're being defensive for whatever reason, misreading the article -- or something. It clearly highlights that this is just Ohio. That's a massive jump, from 480 users in part of one county to nearly half-a-million in close to 77 counties. That's just one state. Whether Frontier can handle that kind of growth is a legitimate question. From what I've seen, they can barely handle delivering more than 3Mbps worth of connectivity to the customers they do have.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571297 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:19:04 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571272 battleop : Yep, That's exactly the way I read it. The story is written to make them sound as small as possible.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571272 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:14:29 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571260 MAR_03_2002 : Frontier would go from 2.3 million lines to 4.8 million phone lines and 1 million broadband connections. »money.aol.com/article/verizon-fr···l/479784

Certainly a big increase. But nothing like the distortion in the story of going from 480 to 435,000 in 1 state.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571260 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:12:34 EDT Re: More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571245 JSRoman : "480 residential customers in a small portion of Williams County."

Try reading it again.
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»www.seabee.navy.mil]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571245 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:10:06 EDT More skewed stats.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571216 battleop : "The proposal calls for Verizon's Ohio operations, with about 435,000 residential customers in 77 counties, to be transferred to Frontier, which serves 480 residential customers in a small portion of Williams County"

So according to the tool that wrote the story Frontier is just a tiny company that only servers 480 residential customers. I found a fact sheet online that states they have over 2.3 Million lines. A half a million lines is still a big chunk to take over but the storyteller could at least tell the whole story.

I don't really care about Frontier or Verizon as I am not a customer of either company nor do I live or work in their service areas (Except for VZW).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571216 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:05:15 EDT