| reply to wifi4milez
Re: Go Figure I live in Canada and our health care system is great. I love those adds on CNN about the doctor who says Canada's health care system sucks. Nothing like paid actors to say what ever you want them to say.
Seriously don't say anything about free health care unless your in it. I don't believe in who ever has more money goes first, that attitude is down right wrong.
I don't Care if I had a billion dollars. If I'm on a waiting list, what would give me the right to think I'm better then anyone else with less money.
Welfare state... LOL
We pay into the system with taxes, that's why our taxes are higher then Americans.
The only people that like the pay as you go system are the ones who have more money then they know what to do with. Those people also think that, if you don't have the money you don't deserve health care. |
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 wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by cpsycho:We pay into the system with taxes, that's why our taxes are higher then Americans. Ahhhh, and now the argument comes full circle! Obama's whole 'pitch' while campaigning was "I will lower your taxes!", and "tax cuts are coming!".
I sincerely thank you (as a Canadian) for pointing out the fallacy of our Dear Leader's statements. Of course 'universal' health care will raise taxes, and thats why so many Americans are opposed to it. Well folks (and doubters) you heard it here right from the source, this universal health care debacle will raise your taxes.
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 pogPremium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
 ·Hawaiian Telcom
| said by wifi4milez:this universal health care debacle will raise your taxes. As long as it raises your taxes more...  j/k
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 CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | reply to wifi4milez
"Ahhhh, and now the argument comes full circle! Obama's whole 'pitch' while campaigning was "I will lower your taxes!", and "tax cuts are coming!"."
He has actually done that already for the majority of Americans.
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by CylonRed:"Ahhhh, and now the argument comes full circle! Obama's whole 'pitch' while campaigning was "I will lower your taxes!", and "tax cuts are coming!"." He has actually done that already for the majority of Americans. He hasnt done anything yet except spend, spend, spend. Not only does he need to pay for what he has already done (by raising taxes), just want until (cringe) he actually attempts to put the universal healthcare "plan" in place. If you think your taxes are bad now, just wait! You too will be fondly remembering the "good old days" soon enough, relish them while you can.
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 JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10 | reply to wifi4milez
if you make more that $250,000/yr please wait a minute while I go get my violin |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by JammerMan79:if you make more that $250,000/yr please wait a minute while I go get my violin The amount of money a person makes has nothing to do with it. Regardless of whether you make $10,000 or $1,000,000 a year, if your taxes are increased (lets say) 15% thats going to hurt. People who are just now struggling to get by are going to be hit with considerably higher taxes once all these 'welfare state' policies hit the books.
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 manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX
·AT&T Southwest
 ·CMA Access
| reply to JammerMan79
said by JammerMan79:if you make more that $250,000/yr please wait a minute while I go get my violin It's going to affect EVERYONE. The poor, middle class, the rich, EVERYONE.
You CANNOT propose $10 Trillion ($10,000,000,000,000) in spending with over $650 Billion ($650,000,000,000) annually in interest payments and NOT raise taxes on everyone. The wealthy in this country will not tolerate raising the tax rate to 90% again.
If you thought that the spike in inflation that was seen in the 1970's was bad, this time around, it's going to be far, far worse.
As inflation goes up, the state and federal government will also have to raise taxes to keep up. When was the last time that you got a raise that kept up with inflation? I haven't had one since 2001. 3% here or 4% there... What happens when you are paying 20-25% interest on your next house or new car?
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JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10 | reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez:said by JammerMan79:if you make more that $250,000/yr please wait a minute while I go get my violin The amount of money a person makes has nothing to do with it. Regardless of whether you make $10,000 or $1,000,000 a year, if your taxes are increased (lets say) 15% thats going to hurt. People who are just now struggling to get by are going to be hit with considerably higher taxes once all these 'welfare state' policies hit the books. huh? It has everything to do with it... from what I've read if you make under $250,000/yr you get a tax cut.. if you make more then it goes up. It's pretty clear why how much money you make matters.
How much do you pay a year for your health insurance btw?
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manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX Reviews:
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| said by JammerMan79:said by wifi4milez:said by JammerMan79:if you make more that $250,000/yr please wait a minute while I go get my violin The amount of money a person makes has nothing to do with it. Regardless of whether you make $10,000 or $1,000,000 a year, if your taxes are increased (lets say) 15% thats going to hurt. People who are just now struggling to get by are going to be hit with considerably higher taxes once all these 'welfare state' policies hit the books. huh? It has everything to do with it... from what I've read if you make under $250,000/yr you get a tax cut.. if you make more then it goes up. It's pretty clear why how much money you make matters. How much do you pay a year for your health insurance btw? That's the problem. Only raising the tax rate on those that make $250K a year will not be enough.
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JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10 | reply to manfmmd
It's my understanding that obama's budget includes funding for the war... the last bush "budget" fudged the numbers because he had war funding on top of it.
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manfmmdPremium
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| said by JammerMan79:It's my understanding that obama's budget includes funding for the war... the last bush "budget" fudged the numbers because he had war funding on top of it. All of which is calculated into the deficit numbers and Obama still quadrupled Bush's disgusting spending.
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If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?
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manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
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| reply to JammerMan79
This is a pretty good article:
»www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent···045.html
It's a few years old, but the message remains the same.
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If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?
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JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10 | reply to manfmmd
ok.. now I'm confused.
2009 United States federal budget - $3.10 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush)
2010 United States federal budget - $3.60 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama)
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta···l_budget
so bush 3.10 + war ... obama 3.60 including war and recession spending
total deficit -
2005 7,933
2007 9,008
2008 - 10,699.8
3nd Quarter of 2009 - 11,383
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta···lic_debt
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to JammerMan79
said by JammerMan79:from what I've read if you make under $250,000/yr you get a tax cut.. if you make more then it goes up. Thats funny, because what you have read is about as reliable as what Obama has said; which is to say its utter nonsense. So far all he has been doing is talking about cutting taxes, while at the same time spending at a faster rate than ever before in the history of the United States. Its like that 'shell game' that shady characters like to play on tourists when they come to the big city; they distract your eyes with some quick hands and before you know if your money is gone.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game
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JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10
2 edits | please see my above post for facts on his supposed spending
btw.. if all he's doing is talking about changing the tax rates.. and you seem pretty sure all he's doing is talking, what's the problem? |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by JammerMan79:please see my above post for facts on his supposed spending btw.. if all he's doing is talking about changing the tax rates.. and you seem pretty sure all he's doing is talking, what's the problem? One could do that, or alternatively you could simply review the Congressional Budget Office official figures. I suggest you first read the Wall Street Journal article (below) that states:
said by Wall Street Journal :
Thanks to a 6.6% decline in revenues due to recession, a spending increase of some $500 billion or 19%, and assorted federal bailouts, the U.S. deficit for fiscal 2009 (ending September 30) will nearly triple to $1.19 trillion. That's 8.3% of GDP, which CBO says "will most likely shatter the previous post-World War II record high of 6.0 percent posted in 1983.
»online.wsj.com/article/SB1231373···735.html
Following that (if you still wish to continue this argument of course), feel free to peruse the official figures posted on the government (CBO) website. The clearly show a trend (on the front page!) that will knock your socks off.
»www.cbo.gov/
As Homer Simpson is known to say, "DOH!"
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manfmmdPremium
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1 edit | reply to JammerMan79
»www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co···820.html
President Obama's ambitious plans to cut middle-class taxes, overhaul health care and expand access to college would require massive borrowing over the next decade, leaving the nation mired far deeper in debt than the White House previously estimated, congressional budget analysts said yesterday.
In the first independent analysis of Obama's budget proposal, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office concluded that Obama's policies would cause government spending to swell above historic levels even after costly programs to ease the recession and stabilize the nation's financial system have ended.
Tax collections, meanwhile, would lag well behind spending, producing huge annual budget deficits that would force the nation to borrow nearly $9.3 trillion over the next decade -- $2.3 trillion more than the president predicted when he unveiled his budget request just one month ago.
Although Obama would come close to meeting his goal of cutting in half the deficit he inherited by the end of his first term, the CBO predicts that deficits under his policies would exceed 4 percent of the overall economy over the next 10 years, a level White House budget director Peter R. Orszag yesterday acknowledged would "not be sustainable."
The result, according to the CBO, would be an ever-expanding national debt that would exceed 82 percent of the overall economy by 2019 -- double last year's level -- and threaten the nation's financial stability.
Let's extend the budget numbers out a bit:
Total Budget projected: 42.80 Trillion
# 2017 United States federal budget - $7.10 trillion (submitted 2016 by President Obama)
# 2016 United States federal budget - $6.60 trillion (submitted 2015 by President Obama)
# 2015 United States federal budget - $6.10 trillion (submitted 2014 by President Obama)
# 2014 United States federal budget - $5.60 trillion (submitted 2013 by President Obama)
# 2013 United States federal budget - $5.10 trillion (submitted 2012 by President Obama)
# 2012 United States federal budget - $4.60 trillion (submitted 2011 by President Obama)
# 2011 United States federal budget - $4.10 trillion (submitted 2010 by President Obama)
# 2010 United States federal budget - $3.60 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama)
Total budget: 20.37 Trillion
# 2009 United States federal budget - $3.10 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush)
# 2008 United States federal budget - $2.90 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
# 2007 United States federal budget - $2.77 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush)
# 2006 United States federal budget - $2.7 trillion (submitted 2005 by President Bush)
# 2005 United States federal budget - $2.4 trillion (submitted 2004 by President Bush)
# 2004 United States federal budget - $2.3 trillion (submitted 2003 by President Bush)
# 2003 United States federal budget - $2.2 trillion (submitted 2002 by President Bush)
# 2002 United States federal budget - $2.0 trillion (submitted 2001 by President Bush)
I'm using an even $500 billion increase per yeah, although the CBO projects upwards of $600 Billion
Now let's add in interest of ~ 9.5% and you are looking at a federal budget of $46.86 Trillion during the Obama years if he were to serve 2 terms. Perhaps I estimated wrong, let's say at least double.
(granted I am using projected numbers if things were to stay the same going forward)
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If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez:Well folks (and doubters) you heard it here right from the source, this universal health care debacle will raise your taxes. You know, I'm convinced that if we could get back the gobs and gobs of money we already throw at healthcare both privately (insurance, employer, employee, etc etc) and publicly (Such as Medicare and many others) and restart the system so that there was a national healthcare program for everyone it would actually SAVE us money and lower taxes.
Now, I am a realist. The chances of this being allowed to occur approaches zero. ... but something will have to be tried, because if it isn't, it WILL destroy the country.
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