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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

»www.cringely.com/2009/06/is-blu-···failure/

I enjoy reading Robert X. Cringley's thoughts and today he published a blog post that I think has merit. Blu-Ray - as it was intended - has been a failure. He postulates that Blu-Ray was intended to do for DVD what DVD did for Blu-Ray ... that is, get you to replace your movie library with Blu-Ray discs. So far, that isn't happening.

He has a few different thoughts as to why, but less than stellar sales of the PS3, the competition from upconversion DVD players, the resistance to adoption by other companies such as Apple because of the impending 1080p video download market, and the fact that most people had to not only buy a Blu-Ray player, but an HDTV to go along with it, are a few reasons he throws out.

He agrees that among cinephiles, Blu-Ray is and will continue to be a run-away success, but that is a small percentage of the market - Cringley states 5% which I think is generous. The rest of the folks are perfectly happy with non Blu-Ray sources for the reasons mentioned above.

My opinion is he's right. I have a Blu-Ray player, but that's because I built a HTPC and needed a DVD drive for it anyway. Otherwise, I'd be perfectly happy with online delivery methods and DVD upconversion. Non-techies like most of my family don't care either way and certainly aren't rushing out to replace their DVD collections with Blu-Ray discs.

So, what say you? Is Blu-Ray shaping up to be a failure even though it is without a doubt a gorgeous format?

Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

Cost is one reason that it is not being adopted, and with the recession, people are not purchasing the toys like they where 2 years ago. Give BR another 2 years, and you will see another price drop, and once the discs get cheaper, then maybe more people will adopt.

Also factor in the live streaming abilities with Netflix, Xbox online, Amazon.com, also people are choosing to stream vs purchasing discs.
--
I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction!

Jmartz

join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ


1 edit

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by Greg_Z See Profile :

Cost is one reason that it is not being adopted, and with the recession, people are not purchasing the toys like they where 2 years ago. Give BR another 2 years, and you will see another price drop, and once the discs get cheaper, then maybe more people will adopt.
I don't think price has anything to do with it. I think most people aren't ready to upgrade movies they already have, and have only had for a couple years.

If price in this economy is really an issue, why did Apple sell 1 million iPhones last weekend? Granted, they weren't all sold in the USA, but still... that's a pretty impressive amount of sales in a global economy that stinks right now.

They need to push Bluray better. If they want it to take off, they need to stop manufacturing movies in the SD format and release only Bluray. Until you see movie studios retiring the old format, it's going to be a tough sell. People will pay, but most will not buy the same movie for $10 more just for Bluray. Netflix increased my rate by 25% last month just for Bluray access. I promptly removed it from my subscription.
xrobertcmx
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join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:
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Price is absolutly one reason. I have both a PS3 and an HD TV. What I don't have is $30.00 a disk to buy them. In the past year and a half that I've had a PS3 to go with my pretty little 26in TV I have bought all of 3 games and 5 Blue Ray movies. Several of the games I've wanted have been $30 more then the PC version, and I unless I really, really like the movie I won't buy it so that I can only watch it on the one television in the house connected to a Blue-Ray player.
I can save $15 and go with the DVD Version which will play on the PS3, the Philips DVD player in my bedroom, and is rippable for playback on my iPod, or streamable to the PS3.
No, a copy protected, only playable on the iPod digital copy is not good enough.
--
Retaking our country one election at a time.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by xrobertcmx See Profile :

Price is absolutly one reason. I have both a PS3 and an HD TV. What I don't have is $30.00 a disk to buy them.
Where are these $30 blu-rays?

here are new movies on blu-ray

Gran Torino (With BD-Live + Digital Copy) (Widescreen) $24.86

Twilight $23.86

Taken (Blu-ray) (2-Disc) (Extended Cut With Digital Copy) $22.86

Watchmen: Director's Cut (2-Disc Special Edition) (With BD Live + Digital Copy) $24.86

Fast & Furious: Special Edition (Blu-ray With BD-Live) (2-Disc) $24.86

Knowing $23.86

Paul Blart: Mall Cop (2-Disc) (With Digital Copy & BD-Live) (Blu-ray) $23.86

Valkyrie (With Digital Copy) $24.96

Sorry I can't find a blu-ray movie for over $25. And most of those listed also come with a digital copy.

normat
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
clubs:

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

Not to mention, I think it's possible blu-ray players could eventually hit a price point that even people with SD sets would consider them. There wouldn't be too much of a benefit for them other than better and faster disk menus and future proofing their library.

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by normat See Profile :

Not to mention, I think it's possible blu-ray players could eventually hit a price point that even people with SD sets would consider them. There wouldn't be too much of a benefit for them other than better and faster disk menus and future proofing their library.
I agree that price is a barrier. I wonder though, will the price of entry for Blu-Ray drop fast enough before an alternative contender shows up? A quick perusal of Best Buy.com shows there are no-name brands going for $199, which is much closer to the proper price point.

I wonder how low Blu-Ray can go since Sony requires a licensing fee however? I'm also curious to know if the firmware updates will be a deterrent. I've had several people call me about firmware updates because they didn't understand how to perform them and couldn't watch a movie.

imtim83
You All Deserve The Economic Meltdown
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by Matt See Profile :

said by normat See Profile :

Not to mention, I think it's possible blu-ray players could eventually hit a price point that even people with SD sets would consider them. There wouldn't be too much of a benefit for them other than better and faster disk menus and future proofing their library.
I agree that price is a barrier. I wonder though, will the price of entry for Blu-Ray drop fast enough before an alternative contender shows up? A quick perusal of Best Buy.com shows there are no-name brands going for $199, which is much closer to the proper price point.

I wonder how low Blu-Ray can go since Sony requires a licensing fee however? I'm also curious to know if the firmware updates will be a deterrent. I've had several people call me about firmware updates because they didn't understand how to perform them and couldn't watch a movie.
That sucks for them. I have a feeling a lot of people don't even want to deal with that kind of problem.

e_dub
franknbeans
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-12
kickin ass

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

Vizio to sell a $188 BR player.

»www.engadgethd.com/2009/06/25/vi···ve-next/

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by Matt See Profile :

I agree that price is a barrier. I wonder though, will the price of entry for Blu-Ray drop fast enough before an alternative contender shows up? A quick perusal of Best Buy.com shows there are no-name brands going for $199, which is much closer to the proper price point.
My local wal-mart which isn't a very big one has at least 3 name brand models under $200

imtim83
You All Deserve The Economic Meltdown
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by xrobertcmx See Profile :

Price is absolutly one reason. I have both a PS3 and an HD TV. What I don't have is $30.00 a disk to buy them.
Where are these $30 blu-rays?

here are new movies on blu-ray

Gran Torino (With BD-Live + Digital Copy) (Widescreen) $24.86

Twilight $23.86

Taken (Blu-ray) (2-Disc) (Extended Cut With Digital Copy) $22.86

Watchmen: Director's Cut (2-Disc Special Edition) (With BD Live + Digital Copy) $24.86

Fast & Furious: Special Edition (Blu-ray With BD-Live) (2-Disc) $24.86

Knowing $23.86

Paul Blart: Mall Cop (2-Disc) (With Digital Copy & BD-Live) (Blu-ray) $23.86

Valkyrie (With Digital Copy) $24.96

Sorry I can't find a blu-ray movie for over $25. And most of those listed also come with a digital copy.
Oh my god those are all hollywood films with many being horrible. Sorry but until the market for blu-ray includes foreign films too forget about blu-ray.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by imtim83 See Profile :

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by xrobertcmx See Profile :

Price is absolutly one reason. I have both a PS3 and an HD TV. What I don't have is $30.00 a disk to buy them.
Where are these $30 blu-rays?

here are new movies on blu-ray

Gran Torino (With BD-Live + Digital Copy) (Widescreen) $24.86

Twilight $23.86

Taken (Blu-ray) (2-Disc) (Extended Cut With Digital Copy) $22.86

Watchmen: Director's Cut (2-Disc Special Edition) (With BD Live + Digital Copy) $24.86

Fast & Furious: Special Edition (Blu-ray With BD-Live) (2-Disc) $24.86

Knowing $23.86

Paul Blart: Mall Cop (2-Disc) (With Digital Copy & BD-Live) (Blu-ray) $23.86

Valkyrie (With Digital Copy) $24.96

Sorry I can't find a blu-ray movie for over $25. And most of those listed also come with a digital copy.
Oh my god those are all hollywood films with many being horrible. Sorry but until the market for blu-ray includes foreign films too forget about blu-ray.
A) foreign films were enver specified

B) "quality" was never specified and how one would quantify that is impossible anyways.

All that was mentioned was "I won't buy blu-rays because they are $30" and I've proven there are no $30 blu-rays. there WERE which must mean prices are dropping liek they did with DVDs and VHS. So if people would quit bitching and let the market take it's course you'll get you blu-rays priced the same as DVDs before too long. Hell it took a decade and a half for a new movie on VHS to be under $20. Less than 18 months removed from the end of the format war and you expect $5 blu-rays.

Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC
If they truly intended Blu-ray to replace DVD then yes, it failed.

As one of the few ways to view 1080p content, then not really.

There is no chance of it going mainstream with the recession and high prices of discs / players.

e_dub
franknbeans
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-12
kickin ass

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

I don't think it's a failure because like that blog; it has the same misconception/mis-information as other posts, blogs, articles, etc....
Blu-ray was is not intended to replace DVD only compete/offer better video and audio. ( DVD was not made to replace VCR, it just eventually took over)
Up-converting DVD is not close to blu-ray, why are many kidding themselves. The sound of blu-ray is amazing.
Unlike like VCR & DVD battle back in the day, DVD vs Blu battle is hindered by the recession.
I'm not saying Blu-ray would be winning by now if there's wasn't a recession, but this topic would have been dead a long time ago.
Unless we get bandwidth like Korea, Japan, China or EU with no caps, video downloading will not knock out blu-ray anytime soon.
I have a large DVD collection and I still watch DVDs, but any movie I buy now is on blu-ray. I have a 1080p projector, a receiver that decodes all HD audio so why would I prefer DVD, HD streaming or downloads. Neither can give me 1080p and HD audio at the same time. (unless it's torrent download of blu-ray movies )

Its a Secret
Whatever
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join:2008-02-23
U B Funny

1 edit

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

Dude, get off the ganj.

All formats were designed to replace the predecessors, to keep those bucks rolling in.

Hollywood: The gift that keeps on screwing you.

howie
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-08
Little Falls, NJ

It took a number of years for DVD to surpass VHS as the home video format of choice and I think the same is true of BD. As more and more consumers replace their aging square CRT TV's for new HDTV's, High Definition Blu-Ray home videos will slowly, but surely, replace SD DVD's as people will want to get the best viewing experience out of their new HDTV's.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

As the digital age ascends upon us, more and more people will be getting new HDTVs.
No amount of up-conversion can ever get close to Blu-ray - and after dropping 1-4 Grand on a new killer display, people will want to feed it the best available.

Hate to break this news to people, Blu-ray is it!
Been trying to tell people for years now(just like way back when with DVDs), New and Improved!

DVDs are SD, period!
HDTVs need a HD source.
Cable and Sat - they do ok.
OTA is better!
Blu-ray stomps them all in the weeds.

Streaming or downloads? When ISPs are starting to cap us?
Yeah, that'll work out well, won't it?
Nothing will ever replace Physical Media.
If my internet chokes and pukes, I can still play one of my discs.
If I am away, I can still play one of my discs.
If I come visit you, I can bring a few of my discs.

These articles and "blogs" are amusing! LOL!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

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Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by dadkins See Profile :

DVDs are SD, period!
HDTVs need a HD source.
Cable and Sat - they do ok.
OTA is better!
Blu-ray stomps them all in the weeds.
DVDs may be SD, but they're mostly anamorphic widescreen and film material can be output in progressive scan mode, which makes them look significantly better than typical broadcast SD on HDTVs.

Bluray simply isn't cheap enough for average people to get that itch to start collecting. They need to drop those prices to DVD levels really soon, because online/VOD rental convenience WILL eat into their potential market. People are easily fooled into thinking that 1080p online rentals are "bluray quality" just as they think horrid XM/Sirius satellite radio is "CD quality".

DVD really exploded when the sub-$10 bargain bins started popping up. Bluray needs to folllow that example.

Although I'm a fan of high quality, even I have to admit, on my 50" plasma, MPEG-4 HD movies converted down to DVD size (4.7gb) still looks very good, much better than DVD.

--
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Your funeral. Delivered.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

Blu-ray just celebrated it's 3 year birthday - June 20, 2006.
3 years in and Blu-ray is doing way better than DVD did, and prices are dropping WAY faster than DVD has.

How many years did DVD take to be adopted?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Rook008
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Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

I agree that Blu-Ray just needs time, but DVD was a huge step up from what many were using when DVD was introduced (VHS tapes). Except for better Video and Audio, if you have the right set-up to see and hear the difference, Blu-Ray isn't such an improvement over DVD.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
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Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by Rook008 See Profile :

I agree that Blu-Ray just needs time, but DVD was a huge step up from what many were using when DVD was introduced (VHS tapes). Except for better Video and Audio, if you have the right set-up to see and hear the difference, Blu-Ray isn't such an improvement over DVD.
Many people(seen it here even) are displaying Blu-ray on 720p HDTVs and they have stated there isn't that great of a difference - well, Yeah!
You're only missing a million pixels.

If you have a good 1080p HDTV and are viewing it from the proper distance for fully resolved 1080p - you can really see the difference.
Just switching channels on your HDTV service you can tell between the 720 channels and the 1080 channels.

Blu-ray -1920x1080.
vs
DVD - 720x480.

*I* can sure see the difference.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Rook008
Miles To Go

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Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

I think you've mentioned that you can see the difference somewhere before.

But for the Blu-Ray experience to be really different, you would need a Blu-Ray Player, a 1080p TV, a receiver that can output the improved Audio, and be within the proper viewing range. The first time I watched some 1080p content on my 37" LCD from about 8 feet away, I was not blown away. Re-arranging my TV room seemed like too much to ask for a better picture.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by Rook008 See Profile :

I think you've mentioned that you can see the difference somewhere before.

But for the Blu-Ray experience to be really different, you would need a Blu-Ray Player, a 1080p TV, a receiver that can output the improved Audio, and be within the proper viewing range. The first time I watched some 1080p content on my 37" LCD from about 8 feet away, I was not blown away. Re-arranging my TV room seemed like too much to ask for a better picture.
This is where research is key.
I did the math - 22" from my 17" 1920x1200 laptop - spot on!
My 42" 1080p HDTV and 5.5-6 feet away - well within the ideal range for fully resolved 1080.

8 feet with a 37"? No doubt you can't see the difference.
Try it from 4 feet.

With Old School TVs, VHS to DVD is a questionable step up(at any distance).
On a semi-decent HDTV, at the proper distance, DVD to Blu-ray is very discernible.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Rook008
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Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

Yeah, from around 4 or so feet, it does look better. Just not better enough (is that even English?) to warrant the price increase. Plus it seems a bit too close to sit to watch TV.
And a 60" TV (8 foot viewing distance) was a bit too far out of my price range.

As for the VHS to DVD transition, the physical media, extras on disc, and ease of use (chapter selection, language and subtitle selection, no more rewinding tape! etc.) were also much better when switching. The slightly better video and audio was just one improvement over VHS.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
As was David, I was also blown away by blu ray.
Now i have to really like a movie to pay the $10+ premium you pay for the blu ray version.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by dadkins See Profile :

said by Rook008 See Profile :

I agree that Blu-Ray just needs time, but DVD was a huge step up from what many were using when DVD was introduced (VHS tapes). Except for better Video and Audio, if you have the right set-up to see and hear the difference, Blu-Ray isn't such an improvement over DVD.
Many people(seen it here even) are displaying Blu-ray on 720p HDTVs and they have stated there isn't that great of a difference - well, Yeah!
You're only missing a million pixels.

If you have a good 1080p HDTV and are viewing it from the proper distance for fully resolved 1080p - you can really see the difference.
Just switching channels on your HDTV service you can tell between the 720 channels and the 1080 channels.

Blu-ray -1920x1080.
vs
DVD - 720x480.

*I* can sure see the difference.
I'll say this I have never seen blu-ray on a 720p TV, but I can sure tell a differnce between a show in 480i and one in 720p even on a 32 inch TV. So logic would dictate I would be able to tell at least SOME kind of difference between a blu-ray movie even if down converted to 720p and a 420p DVD.

Loco
Premium
join:2002-11-09
So Cal
Yep, it's a big failure.

I have a Sony Blu-Ray player here at home and we rarely even use it.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

Based on that logic, it must be a huge success because I use mine all the time.

Loco
Premium
join:2002-11-09
So Cal
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by fireflier See Profile :

Based on that logic, it must be a huge success because I use mine all the time.
Hey, thats great.

Blu-Ray just didn't turn out to be what they had originally expected it to be.

Many people just don't give a chit, meng.

Have a nice day !

thender
crackberry storms

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said by Loco See Profile :

Yep, it's a big failure.

I have a Sony Blu-Ray player here at home and we rarely even use it.
So because you don't use it, it's a failure.

Right.
GameGuy369

join:2004-07-09
Olathe, KS
clubs:

I think most people who get a 50"+ TV tend to want a Blu-Ray player of some sort if they like movies. Not all, but I would think most.

My situation was backwards, I had a PS3 hooked up to a 27" tube. Then I hooked up a 42" 1080p and never looked back. Now I have it hooked up to a 67" 1080p and I be damned if I watch anything less than the highest quality,

Rook008
Miles To Go

join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
Not a failure, but not "there" yet, either. Prices coming down should help.

sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA

In my opinion Cringley has pretty much always been a pretentious idiot. Blu-Ray stumbled for a long time because of the format wars. Those are all over and BD won.

The second stumble was the price of the player. Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common. Adjusted for inflation that's about what I paid for my first DVD player and about 1/10 what I paid for my first VCR. I put the magic price point for mass uptake at $125. We're getting close.

The rate of BD adoption by consumers is also exceeding the rate of early DVD adoption. As the price comes down adoption accelerates just like it did for DVD.

His third hoof-in-mouth was siting replacement of DVD collections as a milestone. Most people aren't even considering it. It took a decade for that to happen with the move from VCR to DVD. I've only replaced a few favorites - but all new purchases are Blu-Ray and if you catch a sale you can get some really reasonable prices. I think I paid $39 for the BD Band of Brothers in a collectors tin. But like most I rent.

His 4th fallacy (idiocy?) is that there aren't enough HDTVs. With the change to digital and the adoption of flat screen as the must have item for every home he's living in the past. Yes there will be Luddites with old tube sets and a VCR but flat screen HDTVs are now mainstream. Just try to buy anything else.

Will Bu-Ray survive? Probably for at least 10 years. Look how long laser disc lasted. Will it become the new mainstream format, possibly and if so it will have staying power. Frankly I have less confidence in the 1080P download services taking off in less than 10 years. 20% of the county can't get anything like broadband, 2/3 of those with broadband don't have the necessary speed, and those with fast enough connections are getting slapped with caps.

I think it's an open question, but no more so than DVD was when it started out. Price of the players and the videos is the key.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by sholling See Profile :

Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common.
Probably profile v1
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by dvd536 See Profile :

said by sholling See Profile :

Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common.
Probably profile v1
1.1
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by dvd536 See Profile :

said by sholling See Profile :

Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common.
Probably profile v1
So? Most people don't care about crap like the ability to purchase crap online from the movie. Most people just want to watch the movie.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by dvd536 See Profile :

said by sholling See Profile :

Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common.
Probably profile v1
So? Most people don't care about crap like the ability to purchase crap online from the movie. Most people just want to watch the movie.
some movies won't even play if profile isn't right version.
thats why i said that.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Blu-Ray will do just fine as soon as they stop trying to sell Blu-Ray movies for a premium over DVD.

As soon as Blu-Ray discs and DVD discs are the same retail price, Blu-Ray will go up like a rocket.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
sbcretired

join:2006-01-07
Scottville, MI
·AT&T Midwest

Since I cant afford a 50"tv, nor do I want one, the occasional movie I rent will look fine on a dvd. Besides I have a dvd on my computer and it all interexchanges, throw the cost of blue ray changeover in that and its just more XHIT to mix things up.

ultracooldave

@verizon.net

I have found a much cheaper alternative- recording Dish 1080i to my 1000 gig ext, harddrive. I now have 162 HD movies for 800 gig. its going to work out to be about 50 cents per movie and every one is available on demand from the remote (channel guide info works too)-no discs to deal with or buy.
You do not need the expensive HD DVR, their regular HD box can record too with its usb port. You have to pay a one time $40 fee to activate all your boxes for usb recording. Since I have 3 HD boxes I plan to attach USB harddrives to all and eventually have over 800 1080i movies and events costing about $300 to store and have instantly available.
By the way the quality is perfect with no gaps or freezes in full surround sound.
While I don't think blu-ray is or will be a failure it will remain for the few that have to have the very best at any price, for me I am content with 1080i and I have grown tired of dealing with new equipment and discs.
tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

So Dish is free now? Comparing the cost of Dish vs a BRD does not make sense and not what the tread is about.
HeadSpinning

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

While I admit that Blu-Ray on a 1080p TV looks incredibly sharp, watching the same movie on an up converting DVD player doesn't really take much if any of the enjoyment experience away. Ultimately, the point of any video entertainment system is to entertain, and I honestly don't get enough extra entertainment value from Blu-Ray to justify the increased cost.

Sure there is a geek factor in having the highest res, biggest screen and all that, but a well written and directed movie with great actors won't be significantly improved by all that, nor will a box office flop.
mikefxu

join:2004-10-05
Titusville, FL

If you have a 1080P TV and your eyes are young/fresh enough to see the difference between 480i/p and 1080p then Blu-Ray is a success. If you do not have a 1080P TV and cannot discern the difference then Blu-Ray is a failure for you. The cost of entry for Blu-Ray is high. For me 42" 1080P TV $600, PS3 $350, and surround sound (optional) $200. So $1,150 to enjoy Blu-Ray properly. I am sure there are a few people that do not run HDMI between the Blu-Ray device and 1080P TV and do not get the full experience.
--
6 Wireless Workstations: WildBlue Satellite:WildBlue-1 Gateway:Laredo Beam:123 on 1.5Mbps/256Kbps plan at Knob Noster, Missouri.

5 Wireless Workstations: WildBlue Beam: 32 on 1.0Mbps/200Kbps plan at Pueblo Pintado, New Mexico.

yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH


1 edit
I think something that gets overlooked are the more practical benefits of DVD versus VHS. People eagerly migrated to DVDs over their old tapes because they're take up less space, they don't need rewound, and they're far more durable. Not one of those benefits are realized in BRD, which means that people must convince themselves that their investment must purely be for entertainment value.

I agree with Cringely's assessment of Apple here; they're waiting for practical online delivery of 1080p video. It's in that market where consumers can once again realize the space savings and product durability that added value to the first home video migration.
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com

Southla

@cox.net

I say it's too soon to tell. While I love my DMP BD55, the step up in picture for most people, on most TVs, isn't that big a deal. Few have the equipment to make BD shine. That will change in time. I think the elephant in the corner is that young people (I can't be accused of that) just as soon watch a movie on a crappy netbook, and listen to music from low bit MP3s. Convenience and being able to get it free are more important to them than quality.
ncbill
Premium
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC

Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080.

720 sets are still much cheaper than 1080 - 1/3 less for the 42" plasma I bought just 6 months ago.

For the price difference I was able to buy a TivoHD, a HD-DVD player (to use as an upscaling DVD player), and a region-free upscaling DVD player w/ HDMI out.

I knew I sat "too far" back from the TV to tell the difference.

I suspect most people's viewing distance is also too far back to tell the difference between 720 and 1080 unless they buy a 50" or larger HDTV.

It's plausible that in 5 years every HDTV shipping will be 1080, but today picking 720p instead saves the consumer serious money.

See 20 replies to this post

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Great thoughts all. I agree with a lot of what was said and I'm not saying Blu-Ray isn't a phenomenal format. 1080p w/ DTS 7.1 will absolutely floor you. I am not an audiophile by any means (128Kbps MP3 is perfectly fine for me) and even I can hear the difference in DTS and Dolby Digital.

I do think 1080p downloadable content is going to be a serious threat to Blu-Ray though. If you think about it, a NetFlix membership w/ Blu-Ray is ~$10/month for the 1 at a time plan. That 4-5 movies a month. You can get great 1080p content in a 10Mbps-12Mbps stream, even less as codecs advance. That's about 15GB for a movie ... or 16 movies a month with Comcast's 250GB cap. Even if you doubled the size of that 1080p content to 30GB, (that's the size of the data on most Blu-Ray discs right now) that's still more movies per month than you can get with Netflix.

So while the things Cringley mentions may have slowed the uptake of Blu-Ray, I think what ultimate will relegate it to a format for cinephiles will be 1080p downloadable content. If given the choice, most people would much rather have a slighter lesser quality version right now than a higher quality version next week. The *BIG* caveat to this is DRM. That will ultimately make or break downloadable content.

See 23 replies to this post

unanimous

@verizon.net

LaserDisc Tried to replace VHS and fail. DVD intended to replace LaserDisc and felt like it happened overnight with some serious BANG!

now as for Blue-Ray. It has not put a dot on DVD. Technically Blue-Ray by FAR a superior Video Format but as far as a hick is concerned in middle America, DVD upscale is just Pur-fect.

Blue-Ray has huge obstacles in front of it. I as for one have a CRT that is mind blowingly fantastic. I personally would not Need/Want a Blue-Ray because the quality of Blue-Ray on a component is DVD like and Hence no reason to cough up dough just to waste it.

Also, if you REALLY want to tell the difference of the up scaling of the DVD which is almost unnoticeable unless you are seriously looking for it. And even then it does not justify the price.

So, as a Format war with DVD, Blue-Ray has failed miserably.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by unanimous :

LaserDisc Tried to replace VHS and fail. DVD intended to replace LaserDisc and felt like it happened overnight with some serious BANG!

now as for Blue-Ray. It has not put a dot on DVD. Technically Blue-Ray by FAR a superior Video Format but as far as a hick is concerned in middle America, DVD upscale is just Pur-fect.

Blue-Ray has huge obstacles in front of it. I as for one have a CRT that is mind blowingly fantastic. I personally would not Need/Want a Blue-Ray because the quality of Blue-Ray on a component is DVD like and Hence no reason to cough up dough just to waste it.

Also, if you REALLY want to tell the difference of the up scaling of the DVD which is almost unnoticeable unless you are seriously looking for it. And even then it does not justify the price.

So, as a Format war with DVD, Blue-Ray has failed miserably.
DVD vs blu-ray on a CRT Trinitron is noticeable ( yea my old CRT Trinitron(Not RPTV) has HDMI)

(using a playstation 3)

Rook008
Miles To Go

join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
I don't really know, but was movie piracy a big thing back when DVD first came out?

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by Rook008 See Profile :

I don't really know, but was movie piracy a big thing back when DVD first came out?
That's a very valid point ... and no, not in the sense that it is now.

Rook008
Miles To Go

join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
·PHONE POWER
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

I was curious because I downloaded America's Army 3 yesterday and the 3.3 GB download took less than an hour, and my connection is about half of the speed of something like Fios.

And I hear that it's possible to download full DVD's and even HD movies over an internet connection. I figured that those speeds probably weren't very common back then.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

said by Rook008 See Profile :

I was curious because I downloaded America's Army 3 yesterday and the 3.3 GB download took less than an hour, and my connection is about half of the speed of something like Fios.

And I hear that it's possible to download full DVD's and even HD movies over an internet connection. I figured that those speeds probably weren't very common back then.
You can get 720p movies from online services like Amazon Unbox and through an XBox 360/PS3. Most 720p movies are in the 4GB-6GB range.

Rook008
Miles To Go

join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY

Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?

I see.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL
YES
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