dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
 ·Comcast
| reply to Rook008
Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?
said by Rook008  :I think you've mentioned that you can see the difference somewhere before.  But for the Blu-Ray experience to be really different, you would need a Blu-Ray Player, a 1080p TV, a receiver that can output the improved Audio, and be within the proper viewing range. The first time I watched some 1080p content on my 37" LCD from about 8 feet away, I was not blown away. Re-arranging my TV room seemed like too much to ask for a better picture. This is where research is key.
I did the math - 22" from my 17" 1920x1200 laptop - spot on!
My 42" 1080p HDTV and 5.5-6 feet away - well within the ideal range for fully resolved 1080.
8 feet with a 37"? No doubt you can't see the difference.
Try it from 4 feet.
With Old School TVs, VHS to DVD is a questionable step up(at any distance).
On a semi-decent HDTV, at the proper distance, DVD to Blu-ray is very discernible.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Rook008
Miles To Go
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
 ·PHONE POWER
·RoadRunner Cable
| Yeah, from around 4 or so feet, it does look better. Just not better enough (is that even English?) to warrant the price increase. Plus it seems a bit too close to sit to watch TV.
And a 60" TV (8 foot viewing distance) was a bit too far out of my price range.
As for the VHS to DVD transition, the physical media, extras on disc, and ease of use (chapter selection, language and subtitle selection, no more rewinding tape! etc.) were also much better when switching. The slightly better video and audio was just one improvement over VHS.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
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sbcretired
join:2006-01-07
Scottville, MI
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to Matt
Since I cant afford a 50"tv, nor do I want one, the occasional movie I rent will look fine on a dvd. Besides I have a dvd on my computer and it all interexchanges, throw the cost of blue ray changeover in that and its just more XHIT to mix things up. |
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ultracooldave
@verizon.net
| reply to Matt
I have found a much cheaper alternative- recording Dish 1080i to my 1000 gig ext, harddrive. I now have 162 HD movies for 800 gig. its going to work out to be about 50 cents per movie and every one is available on demand from the remote (channel guide info works too)-no discs to deal with or buy.
You do not need the expensive HD DVR, their regular HD box can record too with its usb port. You have to pay a one time $40 fee to activate all your boxes for usb recording. Since I have 3 HD boxes I plan to attach USB harddrives to all and eventually have over 800 1080i movies and events costing about $300 to store and have instantly available.
By the way the quality is perfect with no gaps or freezes in full surround sound.
While I don't think blu-ray is or will be a failure it will remain for the few that have to have the very best at any price, for me I am content with 1080i and I have grown tired of dealing with new equipment and discs. |
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HeadSpinning
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
| reply to Matt
While I admit that Blu-Ray on a 1080p TV looks incredibly sharp, watching the same movie on an up converting DVD player doesn't really take much if any of the enjoyment experience away. Ultimately, the point of any video entertainment system is to entertain, and I honestly don't get enough extra entertainment value from Blu-Ray to justify the increased cost.
Sure there is a geek factor in having the highest res, biggest screen and all that, but a well written and directed movie with great actors won't be significantly improved by all that, nor will a box office flop. |
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mikefxu
join:2004-10-05
Titusville, FL
| reply to Matt
If you have a 1080P TV and your eyes are young/fresh enough to see the difference between 480i/p and 1080p then Blu-Ray is a success. If you do not have a 1080P TV and cannot discern the difference then Blu-Ray is a failure for you. The cost of entry for Blu-Ray is high. For me 42" 1080P TV $600, PS3 $350, and surround sound (optional) $200. So $1,150 to enjoy Blu-Ray properly. I am sure there are a few people that do not run HDMI between the Blu-Ray device and 1080P TV and do not get the full experience.
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5 Wireless Workstations: WildBlue Beam: 32 on 1.0Mbps/200Kbps plan at Pueblo Pintado, New Mexico. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
1 edit | reply to Matt
I think something that gets overlooked are the more practical benefits of DVD versus VHS. People eagerly migrated to DVDs over their old tapes because they're take up less space, they don't need rewound, and they're far more durable. Not one of those benefits are realized in BRD, which means that people must convince themselves that their investment must purely be for entertainment value.
I agree with Cringely's assessment of Apple here; they're waiting for practical online delivery of 1080p video. It's in that market where consumers can once again realize the space savings and product durability that added value to the first home video migration.
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Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com |
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tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT | reply to ultracooldave
So Dish is free now? Comparing the cost of Dish vs a BRD does not make sense and not what the tread is about. |
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Southla
@cox.net
| reply to Matt
I say it's too soon to tell. While I love my DMP BD55, the step up in picture for most people, on most TVs, isn't that big a deal. Few have the equipment to make BD shine. That will change in time. I think the elephant in the corner is that young people (I can't be accused of that) just as soon watch a movie on a crappy netbook, and listen to music from low bit MP3s. Convenience and being able to get it free are more important to them than quality. |
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ncbill
Premium
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC
| reply to Matt
Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080.
720 sets are still much cheaper than 1080 - 1/3 less for the 42" plasma I bought just 6 months ago.
For the price difference I was able to buy a TivoHD, a HD-DVD player (to use as an upscaling DVD player), and a region-free upscaling DVD player w/ HDMI out.
I knew I sat "too far" back from the TV to tell the difference.
I suspect most people's viewing distance is also too far back to tell the difference between 720 and 1080 unless they buy a 50" or larger HDTV.
It's plausible that in 5 years every HDTV shipping will be 1080, but today picking 720p instead saves the consumer serious money. |
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Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
1 edit | reply to Greg_Z
said by Greg_Z :Cost is one reason that it is not being adopted, and with the recession, people are not purchasing the toys like they where 2 years ago. Give BR another 2 years, and you will see another price drop, and once the discs get cheaper, then maybe more people will adopt. I don't think price has anything to do with it. I think most people aren't ready to upgrade movies they already have, and have only had for a couple years.
If price in this economy is really an issue, why did Apple sell 1 million iPhones last weekend? Granted, they weren't all sold in the USA, but still... that's a pretty impressive amount of sales in a global economy that stinks right now.
They need to push Bluray better. If they want it to take off, they need to stop manufacturing movies in the SD format and release only Bluray. Until you see movie studios retiring the old format, it's going to be a tough sell. People will pay, but most will not buy the same movie for $10 more just for Bluray. Netflix increased my rate by 25% last month just for Bluray access. I promptly removed it from my subscription. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to Matt
Great thoughts all. I agree with a lot of what was said and I'm not saying Blu-Ray isn't a phenomenal format. 1080p w/ DTS 7.1 will absolutely floor you. I am not an audiophile by any means (128Kbps MP3 is perfectly fine for me) and even I can hear the difference in DTS and Dolby Digital.
I do think 1080p downloadable content is going to be a serious threat to Blu-Ray though. If you think about it, a NetFlix membership w/ Blu-Ray is ~$10/month for the 1 at a time plan. That 4-5 movies a month. You can get great 1080p content in a 10Mbps-12Mbps stream, even less as codecs advance. That's about 15GB for a movie ... or 16 movies a month with Comcast's 250GB cap. Even if you doubled the size of that 1080p content to 30GB, (that's the size of the data on most Blu-Ray discs right now) that's still more movies per month than you can get with Netflix.
So while the things Cringley mentions may have slowed the uptake of Blu-Ray, I think what ultimate will relegate it to a format for cinephiles will be 1080p downloadable content. If given the choice, most people would much rather have a slighter lesser quality version right now than a higher quality version next week. The *BIG* caveat to this is DRM. That will ultimately make or break downloadable content. |
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unanimous
@verizon.net
| reply to Matt
LaserDisc Tried to replace VHS and fail. DVD intended to replace LaserDisc and felt like it happened overnight with some serious BANG!
now as for Blue-Ray. It has not put a dot on DVD. Technically Blue-Ray by FAR a superior Video Format but as far as a hick is concerned in middle America, DVD upscale is just Pur-fect.
Blue-Ray has huge obstacles in front of it. I as for one have a CRT that is mind blowingly fantastic. I personally would not Need/Want a Blue-Ray because the quality of Blue-Ray on a component is DVD like and Hence no reason to cough up dough just to waste it.
Also, if you REALLY want to tell the difference of the up scaling of the DVD which is almost unnoticeable unless you are seriously looking for it. And even then it does not justify the price.
So, as a Format war with DVD, Blue-Ray has failed miserably. |
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tlniec
join:2004-08-02
Cedar Rapids, IA
| reply to Matt
I have a 720p display, and I would call the difference between Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD - yes, I still have my ol' HD-A3 player, too) and upconverted DVD quite dramatic. At least, on any discs I have so far.
But my situation probably isn't typical. My 720p display is a front projector, shooting onto a 106" screen, viewed from about 13' away. So size/distance works out pretty favorably.
I still find DVDs to be watchable. But the lack of spatial and color resolution does not go unnoticed. |
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Rook008
Miles To Go
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY |  reply to Matt
I don't really know, but was movie piracy a big thing back when DVD first came out? |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by Rook008 :I don't really know, but was movie piracy a big thing back when DVD first came out? That's a very valid point ... and no, not in the sense that it is now. |
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r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL | reply to Matt
YES |
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Rook008
Miles To Go
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
·PHONE POWER
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Matt
I was curious because I downloaded America's Army 3 yesterday and the 3.3 GB download took less than an hour, and my connection is about half of the speed of something like Fios.
And I hear that it's possible to download full DVD's and even HD movies over an internet connection. I figured that those speeds probably weren't very common back then.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to Matt
What a bunch of crock. Anybody with FACTS would know blu-ray is AHEAD of DVD at the same point in time in it's lifecycle. what are blu-ray sales year to year compared with DVD? MUCH better. Yeah sound like failure to me. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by BF69 :What a bunch of crock. Anybody with FACTS would know blu-ray is AHEAD of DVD at the same point in time in it's lifecycle. what are blu-ray sales year to year compared with DVD? MUCH better. Yeah sound like failure to me. I tried to find Blu-Ray vs DVD sales numbers but couldn't dig anything up. Would you mind posting your links? I think that is a very telling metric and if Blu-Ray is outselling DVD at the same time post-release, lends credence to the argument that Blu-Ray is doing very well. |
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