Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| reply to Rook008
Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?
said by Rook008  :I was curious because I downloaded America's Army 3 yesterday and the 3.3 GB download took less than an hour, and my connection is about half of the speed of something like Fios. And I hear that it's possible to download full DVD's and even HD movies over an internet connection. I figured that those speeds probably weren't very common back then. You can get 720p movies from online services like Amazon Unbox and through an XBox 360/PS3. Most 720p movies are in the 4GB-6GB range. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins :said by Rook008 :I agree that Blu-Ray just needs time, but DVD was a huge step up from what many were using when DVD was introduced (VHS tapes). Except for better Video and Audio, if you have the right set-up to see and hear the difference, Blu-Ray isn't such an improvement over DVD. Many people(seen it here even) are displaying Blu-ray on 720p HDTVs and they have stated there isn't that great of a difference - well, Yeah! You're only missing a million pixels. If you have a good 1080p HDTV and are viewing it from the proper distance for fully resolved 1080p - you can really see the difference. Just switching channels on your HDTV service you can tell between the 720 channels and the 1080 channels. Blu-ray -1920x1080. vs DVD - 720x480. *I* can sure see the difference. I'll say this I have never seen blu-ray on a 720p TV, but I can sure tell a differnce between a show in 480i and one in 720p even on a 32 inch TV. So logic would dictate I would be able to tell at least SOME kind of difference between a blu-ray movie even if down converted to 720p and a 420p DVD. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to dvd536
said by dvd536 :said by sholling :Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common. Probably profile v1 So? Most people don't care about crap like the ability to purchase crap online from the movie. Most people just want to watch the movie. |
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Rook008
Miles To Go
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY | reply to Matt
I see. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :I do think 1080p downloadable content is going to be a serious threat to Blu-Ray though. If you think about it, a NetFlix membership w/ Blu-Ray is ~$10/month for the 1 at a time plan. That 4-5 movies a month. You can get great 1080p content in a 10Mbps-12Mbps stream, even less as codecs advance. That's about 15GB for a movie ... or 16 movies a month with Comcast's 250GB cap. What about ISP with smaleer caps. Charter has a 250 cap but only for those with the 20 Mbps tier. Everyone else is 100 GB. At&t non U-verse cap tops out at 80 GB. TW as we all know is testing a 40 GB cap.
Also as you said you need 10-12 Mbps stream. How many people have access to that? Of those that have access how many are willing to pay the extra cost of that? Millions of people live in areas where dial-up, satellite are the only option for internet. The entertainment industry would be very stupid to stop trying to sell to them.
Thridly Nexflixs blu-ray choices are slim. As far as peole talking about price of disc. Well my local Movie Gallery rents them for $5. Since I never typically by movies anyways how is this a great expense? |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| BF69 for all the reasons you stated, there are no (that I know of) 1080p online services available because the infrastructure isn't there to support it right now. However, all one has to do is look at the rate at which speeds have increased over the past few years to realize they will continue to increase. Rural users who are on dial-up or satellite aren't the target market for online delivery of video. There will always be exceptions to every service.
Aside from that, the services don't have to stream the content. Services like the XBox Marketplace download the movie before allowing you to watch it. So even if you only have a 10Mbps connection, that's about 2 hours to download. Not all that big of a deal.
Local store renting isn't of concern to anyone. There are a few holdouts, but online services and Netflix have guaranteed the failure of the large video rental stores. |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| reply to ncbill
said by ncbill :Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080. Incorrect. Only the smallest and cheapest sets are still 720p, and that's changing fast. The vast majority of HD sets being sold today are 1080P LCDs. Of what's already out there most of the projection HDTV sets sold in the last 3 years at least 1080i with most being 1080p.
720 sets are still much cheaper than 1080 - 1/3 less for the 42" plasma I bought just 6 months ago. Now there is a technology that's going away. Fewer and fewer companies are making plasma TVs as the market moves on to LCD and newer technologies.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
 ·wavebroadband
| said by sholling :said by ncbill :Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080. Incorrect. Only the smallest and cheapest sets are still 720p, and that's changing fast. The vast majority of HD sets being sold today are 1080P LCDs. Of what's already out there most of the projection HDTV sets sold in the last 3 years at least 1080i with most being 1080p. Citation needed
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Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to sholling
said by sholling :Now there is a technology that's going away. Fewer and fewer companies are making plasma TVs as the market moves on to LCD and newer technologies. LCD and Plasma have distinct advantages. I personally prefer the look of plasma over all but the highest end LCDs. A quick perusal of Samsung's site shows no less than 19 new 1080p plasma HDTV's.
I think it may seem like there are more LCDs because you don't see plasma HDTV sets in the smaller sizes. You see LCDs all the way down to 22" or so, but plasmas start at 42". |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to drew
said by drew :said by sholling :said by ncbill :Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080. Incorrect. Only the smallest and cheapest sets are still 720p, and that's changing fast. The vast majority of HD sets being sold today are 1080P LCDs. Of what's already out there most of the projection HDTV sets sold in the last 3 years at least 1080i with most being 1080p. Citation needed lolz. this is the internets. citations are not required.  |
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Rook008
Miles To Go
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY | reply to drew
What is this...Wikipedia? |
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PlanNine
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Gardner, MA
| reply to Matt
Streaming and downloadable 1080p content is going to suffer a lot if and when ISP's start putting in either hard caps or go to per MB billing scenario's. The files are going to be huge after all.
Just because someone can supply great 1080p content online doesn't mean your ISP wants to support people downloading it. ISP's are already trying to find ways to bill us for more while providing less bandwidth to use per month.
Kind of like Apple and the iPhone. The phone supports things AT&T doesn't even support, thus partially crippling the device. It won't do any good to have a streaming box at home if you can't afford to download stuff to it.
That alone I think will give BR the edge in the long run.
I also think that many people, myself included, like having a "hard copy" in our hands of something we buy. Just like with books. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :said by BF69 :What a bunch of crock. Anybody with FACTS would know blu-ray is AHEAD of DVD at the same point in time in it's lifecycle. what are blu-ray sales year to year compared with DVD? MUCH better. Yeah sound like failure to me. I tried to find Blu-Ray vs DVD sales numbers but couldn't dig anything up. Would you mind posting your links? I think that is a very telling metric and if Blu-Ray is outselling DVD at the same time post-release, lends credence to the argument that Blu-Ray is doing very well. DVD sales were down 9% in 2008,
The overall decline was the largest-ever registered by DEG.
On a brighter note, DEG reports that Blu-ray spending was up threefold in 2008, to $750 million.
»www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/01/08···hreefold
Also in it's first 3 years 6.6 milion DVD players were sold in the US
So far about 4.3 million non-PS3 blu-ray palyers have been sold in the US. Now if you considered the bad economy and the fact the DVD didn't have a format war, I think that's good. Not to mention that one would assume that at least SOME of those PS3 owners use their units to watch blu-ray movies. Plus one has to factor in that one has to have a HDTV to get the benefit of blu-ray which only about 1/3 of US holdholds have at the moment. Between 1997-2000 100% of households in the US that had TVs had a TV capable of watching DVD.
By X-mas 2010 all of this "death of blu-ray" will seem like silly nonsense. Until 90% of the us has at least 10 Mbps connections and caps go away or are at least in the 500 GB-1 TB range, physial media is here to stay. |
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Rook008
Miles To Go
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
 ·PHONE POWER
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to PlanNine
I really hope that the future of broadband isn't caps or per-byte billing. I would hope it's more things like fiber to the home and cable's way of competing with it.
Why not a system where you can stream it, if you like it, pay a couple of dollars more to keep it on your set-top-box or whatever. It sounds very convenient. Wishful thinking maybe. 
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
1 edit | reply to Matt
said by Matt : BF69 for all the reasons you stated, there are no (that I know of) 1080p online services available because the infrastructure isn't there to support it right now. However, all one has to do is look at the rate at which speeds have increased over the past few years to realize they will continue to increase. Rural users who are on dial-up or satellite aren't the target market for online delivery of video. There will always be exceptions to every service. Except we are talking physcial media vs digital. And sorry
# of non broadband households > # household capable of handling 1080p streams.
And that will be the case for the next 10-15 years minimum. So where is blu-ray going?
Local store renting isn't of concern to anyone. There are a few holdouts, but online services and Netflix have guaranteed the failure of the large video rental stores.
Sorry I'm not into movies by mail and if I want to rent a blu-ray I'm going to to local Movie Gallery and most people are the same way. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
·wavebroadband
| said by BF69 :Sorry I'm not into movies by mail and if I want to rent a blu-ray I'm going to to local Movie Gallery and most people are the same way. Citation Needed
If "most people" were the same way, the big box chains wouldn't be struggling to make a profit and they certainly wouldn't be closing stores.
Even the grocery stores got into the video rental business and they're almost all out of it. They host floor space to Redboxes though.
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Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog |
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ultracooldave
@verizon.net
| reply to Matt
The truth of the matter is that the Studios do not need Sony to offer the public 1080p quality. They could easily offer harddrives with 30 or 40 1080p movies/ tv shows pre loaded and a cheap player you could connect to anything.
They might even have encription that could not be broken as well. Its quite easy to copy any blu-ray to a usb harddrive and play it back through any computer with an hdmi output-like my hp laptop with power dvd hd in 1080p to your set even though it does not have a blu-ray disc player built in.
I still think I can live with 1080i recorded from Dish at 50 cents per movie and yes I do have to pay Dish but I am paying anyway, at least I have the option of dropping the Dish package to $30 a month and will still be able to play back countless HD content instantly from my remote, I just don't have any need to deal with any type of discs again or pay for them. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | reply to BF69
said by BF69 :Except we are talking physcial media vs digital. And sorry # of non broadband households > # household capable of handling 1080p streams. And that will be the case for the next 10-15 years minimum. So where is blu-ray going? Do you have kids? My 14-year old barely knows what a CD is and honestly, I'm the same way. I've never cared for the physical media but there are people who do. As time goes on people will prefer the convenience of downloading a movie in a couple of hours over paying $20-$30 for the physical disk. It's human nature. Downloading a movie is easier than buying one or ordering it online and waiting. You see this is every aspect of our lives.
And again, I'm not talking about the capability of streaming 1080p content exclusively. There will be services that allow you to download that content and ANY connection is capable of that. |
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mikefxu
join:2004-10-05
Titusville, FL
| reply to Matt
I never understood owning movie collections. How many times can you watch the same movie? I have about 25-30 DVD but I bought them at Blockbuster when they were $5 each or less since the cost is close to rental cost and I don't have to return. These were movies I haven't seen yet and only hang on to them in case a guest would like to watch them. I am really liking the $1 day Redbox and $2 1 day Blockbuster, Blu-Ray rentals. If someone says they have movie collections for the kids, fine, buy them used and cheap because they will probably destroy them and in 10 years they will all be in the thrift store like all the Disney VHS. |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·Skype
| reply to drew
Go to HHGregg.com, BestBuy.com, Amazon.com, and/or NewEgg.com. Look at the selection of HDTVs in the 32"+ range. Especially once you get above 37" you won't see many 720s and of those, they're typically older models that are leftover inventory which have been supplanted by updated 1080 models or they're no-name brands.
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Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com |
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