Mr Neutron
Hopped up on what you mopped up
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
1 edit | reply to thedragonmas
Re: [Rant] When is 12:01AM (Movie Theater Rant)
said by thedragonmas  :go out, buy windows 7, install it, but you cant use it untill i tell you to. ok? Well, you're not buying Windows 7, any more than you're buying a film when you purchase a theatre ticket. That is, you can't use a movie ticket until the theatre says you can. And in some cases, the theatre may refuse to let you use it at all. The only thing you're entitled to in such a case is a refund.
You're licensing the right to use Windows 7 when you buy the package at your local software store. If you've ever plowed through a EULA, you'll know that you don't actually own anything apart from the physical media, nor do you have any rights with regards to the software, except for the right to install it on a limited number of machines (with that number defined by the software vendor, not you). The license to install that software is, AFAIK, revocable.
And frankly, if Microsoft wanted to make it so that consumers could not install the software for a month after purchase, I'm not sure what would prevent them from stipulating this in their EULA. Not saying it would make sense, or be practical for them to set forth this condition, just saying that I'm not at all sure that they couldn't set this condition in an software license that, after all, is written by them.
But buying software is, as near as I can tell, the same thing as purchasing a theatre ticket: in the former case, you're licensing the right to use the software. In the latter, you're licensing the right to attend a movie.
I understand where people are coming from in regards to considering a theatre ticket a contract, but the one-sidedness of the arrangement (i.e. all the terms and conditions are defined by the theatre) seems, to me, to much more closely resemble a license rather than a contract.
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We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream. |
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thedragonmas
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
| reply to Mr Neutron
quote:
With that in mind, someone has yet to convince me that a theatre ticket is different from a EULA. Not saying it's not possible that it is different, just saying that someone has yet to step up and explain how a granting someone a license to use software is any different from granting them the right to watch a film in your theatre.
go out, buy windows 7, install it, but you cant use it untill i tell you to. ok? |
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Mr Neutron
Hopped up on what you mopped up
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
| reply to Ken
said by Ken :said by Mr Neutron :How is this a contract rather than a license? I'll quote Wikipedia (which I'm sure someone will point out is not a good source). said by »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract :
A contract is an exchange of promises between two or more parties to do, or refrain from doing, an act which is enforceable in a court of law. It is a binding legal agreement. [1] That is to say, a contract is an exchange of promises for the breach of which the law will provide a remedy.
See, this is what I mean: what, exactly, is the consumer "promising" to do when purchasing a theatre ticket? You're purchasing (or rather, licensing) the right to view a film.
The ticket verbiage seems to indicate that the theatre is granting the moviegoer a license to view a film. There is no "exchange of promises" taking place, seeing how the only action on the part of the consumer is to hand the theatre consideration (money for the ticket). In exchange for said consideration, the theatre is granting the ticketholder the right to view the film, a right which is revocable at any time.
The revocability is, to me, what makes the difference between a contract and a license. A contract is a mutual agreement (i.e. there are terms and conditions both parties agree to meet) while a license is essentially an exchange of consideration (i.e. money) for the privilege of being able to view/use/do something solely at the discretion of the licensee (in this case, the theatre).
With that in mind, someone has yet to convince me that a theatre ticket is different from a EULA. Not saying it's not possible that it is different, just saying that someone has yet to step up and explain how a granting someone a license to use software is any different from granting them the right to watch a film in your theatre.
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We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream. |
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Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Brownsburg, IN
2 edits | reply to Mr Neutron
said by Mr Neutron :How is this a contract rather than a license? I'll quote Wikipedia (which I'm sure someone will point out is not a good source).
said by »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract :
A contract is an exchange of promises between two or more parties to do, or refrain from doing, an act which is enforceable in a court of law. It is a binding legal agreement. [1] That is to say, a contract is an exchange of promises for the breach of which the law will provide a remedy.
said by »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/License :
The verb license or grant license means to give permission. The noun license (licence in British spelling) refers to that permission as well as to the document memorializing that permission. License may be granted by a party ("licensor") to another party ("licensee") as an element of an agreement between those parties. A shorthand definition of a license is "an authorization (by the licensor) to use the licensed material (by the licensee)."
I think contract fits quite well. Although I guess you could argue that you are actually entering into a contract to buy a license. Either way it's still a contract with the theater. |
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thedragonmas
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
| reply to Mr Neutron
said by Mr Neutron :said by fishacura :Based on my business law class from 20+ years ago, it seems pretty clear that this a contract. Of course, I am going way back but think about the alternative....they take your money and then are obligated to keep it for nothing? How is this a contract rather than a license? From what I'm reading, it seems to me that the ticket is no more or less than a license the theatre is granting you to watch a film, much like a EULA is a license the software company is granting you to run their software. I guess I'm not clear on how the ticket verbiage posted makes this a contract rather than a license. im stuck on payment for services renderd. and based on your argument if i go fill up my tank at one of those gas stations that give you a free carwash they could say "oops, that free carwash is for next year" and get away with it. |
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Mr Neutron
Hopped up on what you mopped up
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
| reply to fishacura
said by fishacura :Based on my business law class from 20+ years ago, it seems pretty clear that this a contract. Of course, I am going way back but think about the alternative....they take your money and then are obligated to keep it for nothing? How is this a contract rather than a license?
From what I'm reading, it seems to me that the ticket is no more or less than a license the theatre is granting you to watch a film, much like a EULA is a license the software company is granting you to run their software.
I guess I'm not clear on how the ticket verbiage posted makes this a contract rather than a license.
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We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream. |
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fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing | reply to dave
"davists" |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio | reply to fatness
Good, at least the trains will run on time.
Damn, that's "fascists", not "terrorists", isn't it? |
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fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing | reply to dave
Well if that happens then the terrorists have won.
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Jahntassa
said by Jahntassa :If someone starts a shift at 7pm to close out the theater at 3am, do you think they're going to split it between two days? No. That employee worked on 'Tuesday' during their business day. I might care about that if we were talking about employee timecards. But we're not. We're talking about movie tickets.
Anyone publishing a schedule or a ticket ought to be using the same time basis as the rest of us. If a ticket says Thursday, then it's for the same day that the rest of us call Thursday. Not Friday.
What next, a claim that '3 o'clock' means '3 hours after the guy who works in the box office shows up for work' ? |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
2 edits | reply to avd706
Well, it's obvious to me that the day starts at 00:00 and ends at 23:59:59.99999999999 (so, yeah, I was wrong before, or rather I was inexact).
Choose your notation correctly and it makes reasoning much simpler! |
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avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ
1 edit | reply to dave
said by dave :said by Combat Chuck :said by thedragonmas :please, name one. The already mentioned gas station, pizza places that deliver late; basically any business open past midnight is likely to run into the issue of when the previous day ends; the only difference is it's not something you as the consumer are likely to notice. But there is no issue about "when the day ends". The day ends at midnight. If it's Tuesday just before midnight, it's Wednesday just after midnight. This is not complicated. Agreed: The only confusion is at 12:00, by adding the one minute to make it 12:01 am there is no confusion this is a precise time.
edit: Actually the day STARTS at midnight. (Think of new years day, the new year starts when the countdown ends, at midnight)
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Team JON. |
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Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Conway, SC
| reply to dave
said by dave :But there is no issue about "when the day ends". The day ends at midnight. If it's Tuesday just before midnight, it's Wednesday just after midnight. This is not complicated. 'Business day' and actual day of the week can be two different things. Unless you think the theater starts up a new timecard for each employee at the stroke of midnight every day.
If someone starts a shift at 7pm to close out the theater at 3am, do you think they're going to split it between two days? No. That employee worked on 'Tuesday' during their business day. |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck :said by thedragonmas :please, name one. The already mentioned gas station, pizza places that deliver late; basically any business open past midnight is likely to run into the issue of when the previous day ends; the only difference is it's not something you as the consumer are likely to notice. But there is no issue about "when the day ends". The day ends at midnight. If it's Tuesday just before midnight, it's Wednesday just after midnight. This is not complicated. |
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fishacura
join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA
| reply to Thespis
Based on my business law class from 20+ years ago, it seems pretty clear that this a contract. Of course, I am going way back but think about the alternative....they take your money and then are obligated to keep it for nothing? No...they are obligated to do what the ticket says and if they don't do that then they are not entitled to your payment. Not sure what the issue is here any longer. It's fairly cut and dry. I think people just enjoy making more of things for the fun of it.
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People who don't get good service on average tell 10 others while people who do get good service on average tell 1. |
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Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX
| reply to fishacura
said by fishacura :From my theater: "Admit One. Good for date and showtime listed only. The management reserves the right to refuse admission on this ticket by refunding purchase price. Management also reserves the right to designate where the holder of this ticket shall be seated." I think the date issue has been cleared up at least on this ticket. They didn't hold up their end of the deal. The question is: Is the ticket a contract or a license? |
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fishacura
join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA
| reply to MHoltum
From my theater:
"Admit One. Good for date and showtime listed only. The management reserves the right to refuse admission on this ticket by refunding purchase price. Management also reserves the right to designate where the holder of this ticket shall be seated."
I think the date issue has been cleared up at least on this ticket. They didn't hold up their end of the deal.
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People who don't get good service on average tell 10 others while people who do get good service on average tell 1. |
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MHoltum
Premium
join:2001-02-26
Tempe, AZ | reply to goingtonight
What I like is that around here the first showing of a movie is generally a matinee, about 1/2 the regular ticket price, EXCEPT when it is a midnight movie.
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Sarcasm, confusing stupid people since 1869 |
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thedragonmas
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
| reply to fishacura
said by fishacura :I can't tell who's serious any longer. I know Mr. Neutron likes a good debate and I wouldn't put it past him to be curious. So if anyone actually wants to see what's printed on the back of a ticket, let me know and I'll post it. yes, please. |
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fishacura
join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA
1 edit | reply to avd706
I can't tell who's serious any longer. I know Mr. Neutron likes a good debate and I wouldn't put it past him to be curious. So if anyone actually wants to see what's printed on the back of a ticket, let me know and I'll post it.
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People who don't get good service on average tell 10 others while people who do get good service on average tell 1. |
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