| [BC] Why does Telus throttle upload so much? I've been a computer user since early 2001. Like most of us, download speed has become like a drug - I just can't seem to ever get enough. I started out with dial-up and soon signed up for high speed adsl (Telus - western Canada) and have upgraded my service at every opportunity, from 1.5MB/s to 3.0, 6.0, and have recently upgraded to Telus Turbo with 10-15 MB/s service and I am reasonably happy with actual d/l speed over 1.5mb/sec. However, since I began testing my service here, I have become more conscious of my stats and in particular my upload speed and capability. My first high speed account gave me a D/L of 150kb/sec and U/L of about 50kb/sec. I currently max out at 1.5+ mb/sec D/L and 120kb/sec U/L. Whereas my download speed has increased over 10 times, upload has increased less than 3 times!
What I clearly don't understand is why the disparity? Most ISP's brag about how much blinding speed they will give you in an attempt to sign you up, and presumably charge more for the luxury. Isn't the cost of data transfer the same in either direction? After all, it's all one big pipeline of ones and zeros, right? Or is it a big conspiracy to rein in all those evil file-sharers? If you ask me, ISPs are wasting a chance to squeeze their customers out of a lot more money by offering very high speed bandwith with equal down AND up. I for one would quite happily pay twice what I am paying now for real, complete high speed service.
Can anyone give a compelling reason, technical or otherwise, why this is so? |
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| »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ADSL_···plan.svg
It's basically how adsl was designed, how more frequency was allotted to download rather than upload... I know at one point hearing a bit about SDSL, but it's a rare beast and didn't allow pots on the same line as it used the lower frequencies as well.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-Pai···ber_Line |
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| reply to Lawmanxxx
The A in ADSL stand for Asymetrical, so not equal. This is the whole point of the service. It's fast downloads and ok uploads. |
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| uploads speed ok? Not.
Uploads could be increased, costs can go down. Until there is real competition, that may not happen.
Sad but true. |
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| reply to Lawmanxxx
Thanks for the replies. I live in a semi-rural area so I understand that my service can't compete with large, urban areas but what irks me is reading about users in Europe and Asia who regularly achieve amazing speed that are unheard of in North America. We are almost 10 years behind other parts of the world and it's time that Telus, Bell and others started spending the billions of dollars in profits they make on some infastructure to give us world-competitive service. |
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 XT0RTS3x, Drugs, War
join:2001-07-28
Edmonton, AB
1 edit | reply to Lawmanxxx
Yes, but look at how our dollar compares to theirs? Japan, Korea, and other well developed Asian countries are able to provide their services at the cost of our dollar just simply because it is much cheaper for them to implement it. It is sad that they can get a 100 Mbit fiber connection in each of their homes (just an example) for just 1022 Yen per month ($12.30 CDN).
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Asus P5Q-E / Q9450 @ 3.6 / 4GB OCZ Reaper HPC 8500 / XFX 9800 GX2 / Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 |
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| reply to Lawmanxxx
Can you show me a link to those speeds and prices? I just wanna see how that works over there. |
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XT0RTS3x, Drugs, War
join:2001-07-28
Edmonton, AB
3 edits | »flets.com/english/next/index.html
That describes NTT's HIKARI broadband network. Looks like they charge 5,460 Yen for a single dwelling service. But still, that's $65 CDN per month, about $10 to $12 more than what we pay for 15 Mbit Dry-DSL or cable Internet access, minus new subscribers. |
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| said by XT0RT:» flets.com/english/next/index.htmlThat describes NTT's HIKARI broadband network. Looks like they charge 5,460 Yen for a single dwelling service. But still, that's $65 CDN per month, about $10 to $12 more than what we pay for 15 Mbit Dry-DSL or cable Internet access, minus new subscribers. Looks like GPON, shared 1gbps service. Telus does have a couple of test areas, but there was speculation that the CRTC was going to force the company to share the fibre with its competitors. Between this and a lack of common standard between manufacturers mean that VDSL will be an interim step before FTTH. Anyone know anything else about the regulatory issues?
Population density of Japan: 337/Sqkm
Population density of Canada: 3.2/Sqkm
Alberta: 5.38 /sqkm
BC: 4.7/sqkm |
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2 edits | Please don't bring up that population thingy again, had that in another thread
Population density of Calgary: 1,435.5/km2 (3,717.9/sq mi
Three quarters of Canada's population lives within 150 kms of the border with the States, effectively reducing the area to roughly 400,000 sq. miles.
Canada's GDP 2008 : $1.5 Trillion
per capita : $45,000
Korea GDP 2008: just under $1 Trillion
Population 49 Million per capita GDP is less
France GDP 2008 : $2 Trillion
Population 65 Million GDP :so again less per capita
land area is 260,000 sq miles
Metropolitian areas are less dense then the top 10 Cities in Canada.
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1 edit | said by Muncher:Please don't bring up that population thingy again, had that in another thread Population density of Calgary: 1,435.5/km2 (3,717.9/sq mi Three quarters of Canada's population lives within 150 kms of the border with the States, effectively reducing the area to roughly 400,000 sq. miles. OK. Let's look at the population density of Canada within 150km of the States:
Assume the border is a scant 3000km. 3000km x 150km = 450 000sqkm. Population of Canada is 33,212,696.
33212696 x 0.75 / 450 000 = 55/sqkm.
Even ignoring the fact that Canada's ISP service many areas more then 150km North of the border, we still have 1/6th the population density of Japan in a cherry-picked area.
said by Muncher:Canada's GDP 2008 : $1.5 Trillion per capita : $45,000 Korea GDP 2008: just under $1 Trillion Population 49 Million per capita GDP is less France GDP 2008 : $2 Trillion Population 65 Million GDP :so again less per capita land area is 260,000 sq miles Metropolitian areas are less dense then the top 10 Cities in Canada. Per capita income is directly related to the cost of providing services. You would expect that countries with a lower average income will have cheaper internet access, since the employment costs are lower. |
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2 edits | reply to Telus Lurker
said by Telus Lurker:Population density of Japan: 337/Sqkm Population density of Canada: 3.2/Sqkm Alberta: 5.38 /sqkm BC: 4.7/sqkm Toronto: 3,972/km2 Pop: 2.5 million
Montreal: 4,439/km2 Pop: 1.6 million
Vancouver: 5,335/km2 Pop: 578,000
Calgary: 1,435.5/km2 Pop: 1 million
Edmonton: 1,099.4/km2 Pop: 782,000
We've got atleast 6 million people in very high density areas. Looks like a good place to start.
Lots of smaller cities like victoria, burnaby, surrey, richmond, etc., have density rates well over 1,000/km2 too. |
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| reply to Lawmanxxx
Everyone talks about population...how about size?
France: 220,668 square miles (674,843 square kilometer)
South Korea: 38,023 square miles (98,480 square kilometers)
Japan: 145,882 square miles (377,835 square kilometers)
Canada: 3.8 million square miles (9.9 million square kilometers)
So which country would it cost the most to establish and maintain an communications infrastructure?
Okay, back to the population base
France: 64,057,792 (2008)
South Korea: 48,379,392 (2008)
Japan: 127,288,416 (2008)
Canada: 33,212,696 (2008)
Of the 4 examples cited above, the country with the smallest population base, has the largest area, both by a long shot! How about the terrain within these areas. Large lakes, mountain ranges, swamps, rivers, treacherous canyons, etc....
So I would think it would be a lot cheaper and easier for countries like South Korea, France and Japan, to place fiber everywhere.
Just my 2 cents |
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| No mountains in Korea, Japan, France? Strange cause I remember seeing them.
Calgary has large lakes, mountain ranges, treacherous canyons? Where? |
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| reply to Telus Lurker
So France has a lower average income compared to Canada? They make more, internet/TV/Phone cost 30.00 euros a month. (free.fr) |
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| said by Muncher:So France has a lower average income compared to Canada? They make more, internet/TV/Phone cost 30.00 euros a month. (free.fr) I don't believe we were talking about individual cities..I'm sure I just mentioned countries, unless Calgary just seceded from Canada.  Yes..of course they have mountains and such..not to the vast extent Canada does. Canada is huge...second only to Russia. |
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| Actually according to landmass we, Canada are number 4. Most of our area is water. |
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| really? I'm sure it cost more to go around or under all that water, when placing cable. Which was my point to begin with. |
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| reply to Muncher
Actually, according to landmass, Canada is still second to Russia.
»www.cia.gov/library/publications···de=na#CA
Nice try though.
Also, the whole 150km from the border thing is bullshit. The biggest costs in running optical cable will be the last mile. High density generally alleviates this because the costs can be recouped quickly.
If TELUS were to blanket Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver and Victoria they could recoup their costs rather quickly. The fact they could completely destroy Shaw's speed dominance would be a nice win for TELUS.
I think TELUS should create a company whose sole purpose is to expand fiber everywhere. Then lease it from their own company. This mainly serves to circumvent the mandatory sharing of lines. This company can lease lines and charge for each install to TELUS and have a contract stipulating that TELUS is their sole customer.
Frankly, I think if TELUS were to spend the money on the line and another company were to start servicing the end user, that new company should have the onus to pay the remainder of the installation costs off.
For example: if a GPON connection costs a grand to my apartment and I have TELUS for 2 years but want to switch, in that two years TELUS may have set aside 20/month towards the installation costs. Now we're at $480 of that 1000 being paid off. But if I go to Teksavvy GPON, now TS should have to pay the rest of the $520 off.
GPON is pretty much necessary for TELUS to compete in the long run. Twisted pair only has so much steam left in it. VDSL2 can hit about 100Mbps real world with providers offering about 10Mbps up in Germany.
TELUS is getting into triple play phone/internet/tv in a big way and TV is a hard sell to people with more than one HDTV. Also you can't PVR shows and watch another one simultaneously (I think, this may have changed). Essentially, TELUS has to start offering FiOS. |
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XT0RTS3x, Drugs, War
join:2001-07-28
Edmonton, AB | reply to Lawmanxxx
Telus has been running FTTH/GPON trials for the past while now. Some homes in the Edmonton area are FTTH/GPON ready and those users are downloading at 20 Mbit's per second. I'm not certain what the upload speeds are though.
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