 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Clear Wireless
| Internet video is going to start taming itself There are already discussions about Hulu charging to view content as media companies are coming to the same realization that newspapers have -- it costs money to develop content, and you can't keep funding that development when you simply give the content away online for free.
Of course, engadgetHD recently conducted a poll that found over 75% of people would be unwilling to pay any amount of money to watch Hulu content. So much for mixed messages -- it's content worthy of the time of millions of viewers.... until you want to charge anything for it, then it's worthless.
I guess piracy would still be an option, if the show somehow finds a way to generate enough ad revenue through other outlets to continue being produced. | |
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  IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself Paid, Free, or Pirated... It doesn't matter if there's a 250GB Cap to deal with. | |
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 | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by IPPlanMan:Paid, Free, or Pirated... It doesn't matter if there's a 250GB Cap to deal with. The caps aren't a problem for occasional online viewing.
The "Cut the Cord" model has bigger issues on the supply side well before any kind of cap would be an issue. | |
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| | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by espaeth:The caps aren't a problem for occasional online viewing. The "Cut the Cord" model has bigger issues on the supply side well before any kind of cap would be an issue. I'm not sure why you'd say that...
It's possible to go over your cap merely watching Hulu content right now.
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"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army | |
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| | | | | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself What makes these carriers think people won't "cut the HSI cord" as costs surpass cable tv charges by 20% to 200% with overage charges depending on your carrier. And why oh why has there been NO intervention by the FCC?
Sadly, I think I already know the answer to the latter.
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BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
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| | | | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself I think you'll see a web of consumer coercion happen...
You won't be able to get a "cheap" internet package anymore.
Want something without a 5GB cap from TW, you'll have to pay more, even if you don't want/need the speed.
Go over your cap? You need faster internet, that's the problem. 
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army | |
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| Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| said by IPPlanMan:Paid, Free, or Pirated... It doesn't matter if there's a 250GB Cap to deal with. Dude just get over it if you go over 250 it's you fault. I do alot of watching TV and nextflix and download the summer tour of the Dave Matthews band all summer so far and i have not come near my 250 a month..This is since Jan 2 of 09 BTW. | |
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| | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself It's clear to me that the less TV you watch and the more online content you stream/view, the more likely you are to hit the cap. I'm not sure why that's something that you're not getting.
Besides, you're just one person. Try that with 4-5 people on the same modem.
It's very easy to reach 250GB with roommates, housemates, children, etc.
I did the math in this post: »Re: Bandwidth Limits/Congestion Management - All discussion here
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If the shoe fits?
You conveniently disregarded everything else I said in my other posts about "regular" use.... which are all affected and limited by the cap...
I consider online backups regular use...
I consider streaming video from other sources besides Comcast regular use....
I consider uploading photos/videos regular use....
These are regular uses ... but you don't think so.
And then factor in the people that share my connection with me... and it becomes an issue. I'm not the only one using my connection, so it's very easy to get to the cap.
Split a 250 GB cap between 2 people on the same modem and it's 125 GB/month per person... and you have to split that between uploads and downloads, so it's 62.5 GB download and 62.5 GB upload.
Let's split it among 3 people: 83.3333 GB per person per month... and now it's 41.6666 GB upload and 41.6666 download per person per month.
It's fair to make the split evenly between uploads and downloads because some people do online backups and other uploads of movies and photos, etc.
Shall I keep going? How about we split it among 4 or 5 people.... Wow... that looks like an actual family! 250 GB per month for the whole family, with all of them potentially interested in different iTunes/Netflix content! And the cap hasn't moved upwards since it was introduced back in October of last year.
Let's add some more things that are part of regular use... Software updates!
Sometimes Apple updates are a few hundred MB... Multiply by 3, 4, or 5 and now we're talking noticeable numbers towards the cap.
You can't take Comcast movies with you on the go, unlike the iTunes rentals/purchases which you can, either on a laptop or an iPod/iPhone. So that's a feature. That's a feature that some people are willing to pay for.
It's not that you're doing anything wrong. You just can't believe that anyone would want to do anything else... or more.
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--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army | |
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| | |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
1 edit | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself Yeah... and see what I responded with pal:
"Look friend, if your use exceeds the 250GB cap that is known and currently in place, there is only a few choices you can make...
Re-evaluate your use and reduce it to acceptable levels - regardless of user count.
Discontinue service and start looking for a new provider.
Get a second account at your house.
I consider staying within the Terms of Service that I agreed to as "regular use"
It doesn't matter what you consider fair or normal or regular.
What matters is abiding by the rules set forth by the network owner.
Hope you figure it out!  "
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself As I recall from that same thread, others said that you were wrong about getting a 2nd line... Comcast does one drop per residence.
A second account? Perhaps DSL at the same time?
Oh brother....
Move along folks.... Nothing to see here... | |
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| | | | | dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself Wrong again friend.
You can have two - but the second one will not be free.
One single drop can accomodate more than one modem.
Also, many people have two or more drops to their residence - one for TV and whatnot, a *SECOND* drop for HSI only.
Happens all the time.
Anything else?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | | | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself I get it...
You don't actually use the connection in a sufficient amount to care about the cap.
Sounds to me like you're paying for a service that you don't need. | |
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| | | | | | | dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
1 edit | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by IPPlanMan:I get it... You don't actually use the connection in a sufficient amount to care about the cap. Sounds to me like you're paying for a service that you don't need. Bottom line is, two drops happen regularly.
A second HSI account can be done. 
No, I pay for a fast connection.
Comcast is selling speed, not volume.
I bought fast and I get it.
By all means, continue with your ranting. We rather enjoy watching.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | | | | | | said by IPPlanMan:I get it... You don't actually use the connection in a sufficient amount to care about the cap. Sounds to me like you're paying for a service that you don't need. I need good water pressure. I don't need to leave the water running or to share it. | |
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| | | | | | | | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by yt:I need good water pressure. I don't need to leave the water running or to share it. And in this case, there isn't enough water for the shower.... | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself O rly? | |
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| | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Dakins
Here the lines will not withstand a third (2HSI+TV) split and still be able to maintain upstream SNR. I also do work in three other states and it is the same there. Getting an additional line can be done in most areas, but it is usually like pulling teeth. | |
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| | | | | | | dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself I have had two HSI modems running on the same single line - I know it can be done.
As for having a dedicated #2 drop for HSI only - it happens more often than people realize.
Thanks Lazlow!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself Dadkins
I did not say that it could not be done, I said that in many areas it cannot be done. If you can get them to run a RJ11 line instead of regular RJ6 it makes this much easier. As I pointed out above: in many areas it is extremely difficult to get the ISP to run a separate line. There are two main reasons for this: First they do not want to do anything they do not have to. Second they often are short on attachment points on the main line. | |
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| | | | | | | | | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself Exactly right.
Try getting a second line in an apartment complex.
Not everyone lives in a house you know. | |
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| | | | | | | | | dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by IPPlanMan:Exactly right. Try getting a second line in an apartment complex. Not everyone lives in a house you know. Never said they did.
I stated that second drops do occur and second accounts can be applied to the single drop.
Hope this helps!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | | | | | | dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Yes.
I understand this.
I know of people that have three lines going to one apartment.
Also, as I stated, I have had two(2) modems on a single drop.
It does work.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself Dadkins
It does work IF you have enough signal after you split the line. A lot of places (most in my experience) do not have enough signal.
There may be exceptions but MOST apartment building will not allow you to run additional lines. As I stated before it is usually very difficult to get an ISP to run an additional line or a RJ11 line. Maybe in your area things do not work this way but having dealt with multiple ISPs in four states on lots of installs it is not the norm. | |
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1 edit | Well it's nice to see someone finally shut their mouth and let Comcast continue raking in billions in profits every year.
We should all follow this young man's noble lead and decrease our usage to be more acceptable in the eyes of the all-knowing Comcast TOS.
Let us all join hands and contemplate the sins of our lives, in which we spend far too much time idling on the internet and far too little time making money for Comcast and TWC to take from us. | |
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| | | | | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1
1 edit | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself 
Very funny!
It's always about the money.
In fact, the more idle we are in the internet, the more money Comcast makes! | |
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| | | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| said by IPPlanMan:It's clear to me that the less TV you watch and the more online content you stream/view, the more likely you are to hit the cap. I'm not sure why that's something that you're not getting. That's one reason the "Cut the Cord" model breaks down in a hurry.
Look at all of the infrastructure that YouTube currently has to deliver 0-10 minute clips in "watchable" quality to roughly 80 million viewers. If you follow the same scaling architecture to support the replacement to replace 3-5 hours of TV viewing per day, the infrastructure becomes impossibly expensive to maintain.
said by IPPlanMan:It's very easy to reach 250GB with roommates, housemates, children, etc. Perhaps, but most people don't.
Numbers out of Japan, for instance, show averages below 40GB/mo and mode in the 3-4GB/mo range (depending how accurate the models are). »www.caida.org/workshops/wide/080···ffic.pdf
I run DRDB filesystem replication from my hosting servers to home for continuous backup purposes, and even with 180GB of replicated storage on top of my regular usage I rarely break 150GB/mo. That includes VPN use for work and my personal Internet use with it. (I have both a Comcast business account and a DSL business account) | |
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| | | | | | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself You do realize most Japanese use their wireless connections for data, right? | |
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| | | | | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
1 edit | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by sonicmerlin:You do realize most Japanese use their wireless connections for data, right? Did you read the report? It's about usage on predominantly 100mbps FTTH connections.
If you look at the stats there are connections pushing hundreds of GB per month. I quoted the average and the mode, because they better define typical use than the extreme upper edge of the stats. | |
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| | "it costs money to develop content, and you can't keep funding that development when you simply give the content away online for free."
Hulu doesn't make or develop content, unlike the newspapers and hollywood. They place ads to make money, if they can't make that work, they should give the content back to iTunes (oh I just remember not so long ago NBC dude pulling out of iTunes and then saying how sucessful hulu was going to be. Perhaps people are willing to pay for content - I mean most tv shows don't show up on itunes for a LONG time, why not put them there for a season and see if what happened to the "free music on the net" happens to the tv content. And I disagree with your second post, occasional viewing and the caps - no, never, not. This article is not about occasional viewing. Plain and simple, don't advertise unlimited, when there is a cap, and don't cap legal stuff. If they can't figure out how to do that, then there should not be a cap AT ALL. | |
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| espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by LV1099246 :
"it costs money to develop content, and you can't keep funding that development when you simply give the content away online for free."
Hulu doesn't make or develop content, unlike the newspapers and hollywood. Hulu is run by the companies that produce the content:
Hulu is a joint venture of NBC Universal (GE) and Fox Entertainment Group (News Corp), with funding by Providence Equity Partners, which made a US$100 million equity investment and holds a 19% stake. ABC, Inc. (Disney) also owns a 27% stake in the venture. said by LV1099246 :
Plain and simple, don't advertise unlimited, when there is a cap, and don't cap legal stuff. If they can't figure out how to do that, then there should not be a cap AT ALL. Caps aren't about illegal vs legal uses of your connection -- it's a function of capacity. I do agree with others that caps are an imperfect solution to address that problem though. I also agree that advertising "unlimited" is misleading. | |
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| | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1
1 edit | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself People simply aren't going to watch programs online, even "free ones" if they're going to go over the usage caps.
- A "free" program will still cost you money if you have to pay an overage fee (Think Cogeco). A "paid" program will simply cost you what you pay for the program, on top of the "overage" fee.
- People won't watch this stuff at all, paid or free, if going over their cap means that their service is terminated as a result. A warning, followed by another within six months means a one year suspension in the case of Comcast.
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army | |
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| | | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by IPPlanMan:People simply aren't going to watch programs online, even "free ones" if they're going to go over the usage caps. - A "free" program will still cost you money if you have to pay an overage fee (Think Cogeco). A "paid" program will simply cost you what you pay for the program, on top of the "overage" fee. People will have to weigh their options. I pay to rent from Netflix even though RedBox would be cheaper because I value the convenience of just having the movies delivered. There is a plethora of options to get access to the content.
said by IPPlanMan:- People won't watch this stuff at all, paid or free, if going over their cap means that their service is terminated as a result. A warning, followed by another within six months means a one year suspension in the case of Comcast. Considering you have to be one of the top 1000 customers, in terms of bandwidth utilization, to get that call, that means that the other 14.7 million people are safe.
That's like saying people won't speed on the freeway because of the risk of getting pulled over. The odds are even more in your favor with Comcast. | |
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approval from:
dadkins 
| said by IPPlanMan:People simply aren't going to watch programs online, even "free ones" if they're going to go over the usage caps. Do you realize how many movies you would need to watch to break a 250 GB cap?
People keep ranting like 250 GB is a low cap.... when something like 90% of internet users use less than 20 GB a month, less than 5% use more than 100 GB a month, and less than 1% use more than 250 GB. | |
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| | | | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself See above... I did the math. Some people don't like how the math comes out, but don't blame me for that. | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by IPPlanMan:See above... I did the math. Some people don't like how the math comes out, but don't blame me for that. You are using it more like a biz and need a biz line so
Lets put it this way.. A DMB show is a GIG in size and i avg about 20 shows a month in the summer plus all my netflix and HD videos i still don't come near my 250..Hmmmmm | |
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| | | | | | IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself Again... you're just talking about yourself... one person!
Yeah... Me and the others on my Cable Modem... We're a business, yup. | |
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| | | | | | | said by IPPlanMan:See above... I did the math. Some people don't like how the math comes out, but don't blame me for that. You missed the point....
You're multiple users situation isn't new, yet the usage numbers still are what they are. Less than 1% ever reach that 250 GB limit. | |
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 badtripI heart the East BayPremium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA | said by espaeth:There are already discussions about Hulu charging to view content as media companies are coming to the same realization that newspapers have -- it costs money to develop content, and you can't keep funding that development when you simply give the content away online for free. Of course, engadgetHD recently conducted a poll that found over 75% of people would be unwilling to pay any amount of money to watch Hulu content. So much for mixed messages -- it's content worthy of the time of millions of viewers.... until you want to charge anything for it, then it's worthless. I guess piracy would still be an option, if the show somehow finds a way to generate enough ad revenue through other outlets to continue being produced. Hulu has ads, not many ads but they are there. Thus they are not giving away anything for free. 75% of folks won't pay for Hulu content (I know I wouldn't) because the exact same content can be watched for free via different (and legal) means.
Hulu should just add more commercials during their breaks. If they want to charge for content, they better remove all ads, have a more complete battery of shows they offer and charge no more than $0.05-$0.25 for unlimited viewing of an episode.
At this point, Hulu strikes me as more of a vehicle to drive DVD sales for popular shows or to get folks to tune into regular television to watch shows featured on Hulu...in effect Hulu is an advertisement itself. | |
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| espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| Re: Internet video is going to start taming itself said by badtrip:Hulu has ads, not many ads but they are there. Thus they are not giving away anything for free. Indeed they have ads, but folks including the CFO of Netflix have argued that the current advertising does nothing more than slow the current rate of bleeding.
said by badtrip:75% of folks won't pay for Hulu content (I know I wouldn't) because the exact same content can be watched for free via different (and legal) means. Absolutely. With an antenna, an ATSC tuner, and a couple dirt cheap hard drives I get most of the content I want to watch in full 1080i resolution with 5.1 digital surround. For the most part with Hulu we're talking about shows that have already been digitally delivered to your home over public airwaves, satellite transmissions, MSO coax cables, or FTTH systems.
said by badtrip:At this point, Hulu strikes me as more of a vehicle to drive DVD sales for popular shows or to get folks to tune into regular television to watch shows featured on Hulu...in effect Hulu is an advertisement itself. Honestly, I believe that was the intention from the onset was to provide a collection of shows to get people interested in various series to drive interest in more TV viewership.
I see a lot of value in services like Hulu to have an archive of shows to be able to watch on demand. It's a great secondary distribution model -- the problems set in when people try to make it a primary distribution model. | |
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