Routing between the same subnet in Networking http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22603404 en Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:39:48 EDT Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:39:48 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22628264 carp : Do you have Spanning Tree enabled on the switches?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22628264 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:43:54 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625287 bbarrera :
said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

Yes, there is a group of RVON gear spread out at different locations via wireless, fiber and standard Cat5e links. There is other equipment that is on the same switch(es) as the RVON.
I suspect you have a lot of VoIP traffic from LAN to Internet and that is reason for 'slowdown' -- it would really help if you explained what you meant by slowdown. If you have significant VoIP traffic to/from the Internet then you either need more bandwidth or a better router.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625287 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:41:34 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22621443 billaustin :
said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

Single switch would be nice but I must use existing infrastructure. I will have to just live with the slowdown, which really seems to only manifest in the Linksys router.

I appreciate the responses guys!

Neal
If the slowdown is in the router, that's what you should look at replacing. I would suggest a router with a little more horsepower. I run Mikrotik on an older PC and use multiple AP's for wireless coverage. The Netopia 3386-ENT is also a decent little unit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22621443 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:28:00 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22620733 elnino :
said by tschmidt See Profile :

said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

There is other equipment that is on the same switch(es) as the RVON.
Do your switches support trunking or plug in high speed ports? That way you can upgrade the link between switches.

/tom
Each switch has 2 gigabit ports on them, that should be plenty of uplink speed even when they aren't bonded.

I'm still not sure why you can't keep the existing subnet for the RVON stuff and then make a new subnet for everything else. If the network is designed as the picture above (with the Internet switch as a different subnet), there's no reason I can see why it wouldn't work. If there needs to be broadcast traffic from the internet subnet to the RVON side, then you can't separate them. As long as the second router has NAT disabled, every device can be accessed as if they were on the same subnet.

I couldn't find any info online about RVON devices so I'm not sure how that protocol or whatever actually work]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22620733 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:21:26 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22620302 tschmidt :
said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

There is other equipment that is on the same switch(es) as the RVON.
Do your switches support trunking or plug in high speed ports? That way you can upgrade the link between switches.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22620302 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:18:44 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22619837 A900MHz Fan : Yes, there is a group of RVON gear spread out at different locations via wireless, fiber and standard Cat5e links. There is other equipment that is on the same switch(es) as the RVON.

Neal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22619837 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:05:04 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22618202 bbarrera :
said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

I will have to just live with the slowdown, which really seems to only manifest in the Linksys router.
Can you explain that a bit more? Does the RVON gear talk to RVON gear in another office?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22618202 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:02:39 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22618146 A900MHz Fan :
said by Cabal See Profile :

There's nothing to stop you from filtering on the bridge. It works well for devices that have a need for same-subnet access but can't be filtered on the host (but there are plenty of other ways of doing so). A dumb bridge wouldn't gain you anything, of course.
I have never attempted such a thing, where can I get more information and equipment to do this?

Neal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22618146 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:48:57 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22612770 Cabal :
said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

said by elnino See Profile :

said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

Would a bridge not forward all broadcast from the RVON though? Using two subnets is not an option.
No, a bridge/switch would forward broadcast traffic to everyone on that subnet. The only way to create a new broadcast domain is to install a router and make a new subnet. Switches separate collision domains; routers separate broadcast domains.

Have you sniffed the traffic to see that it is broadcast traffic? Do you realize you're also using non-RFC1918 IP addresses for your internal network?
The 192.170.1.xxx was chosen as more than 50% of the gear came with that block OEM.

So are you saying there is no same subnet routing solution?

Neal
There's nothing to stop you from filtering on the bridge. It works well for devices that have a need for same-subnet access but can't be filtered on the host (but there are plenty of other ways of doing so). A dumb bridge wouldn't gain you anything, of course.
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22612770 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:04:24 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22612248 A900MHz Fan : Single switch would be nice but I must use existing infrastructure. I will have to just live with the slowdown, which really seems to only manifest in the Linksys router.

I appreciate the responses guys!

Neal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22612248 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:11:36 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22611639 tschmidt :
said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

So are you saying there is no same subnet routing solution?
Correct - that is the definition of routing. When a host wants to send a packet to another host not on the same subnet it forwards it to router (also called gateway). It is the router's responsibility to figure out how to deliver the packet or at least advance it along the route to the ultimate destination.

Since you are concerned about "chatty" traffic have you though about using a single large switch? Switch back-plane is much faster then individual ports so it is able to handle a lot of traffic.

Have you done the test elnino See Profile recommended? You may find out this is much to do about nothing. Even though RVON devices constantly send packets the amount of capacity they use is minimal.

/tom ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22611639 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:12:32 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22611558 A900MHz Fan :
said by elnino See Profile :

said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

Would a bridge not forward all broadcast from the RVON though? Using two subnets is not an option.
No, a bridge/switch would forward broadcast traffic to everyone on that subnet. The only way to create a new broadcast domain is to install a router and make a new subnet. Switches separate collision domains; routers separate broadcast domains.

Have you sniffed the traffic to see that it is broadcast traffic? Do you realize you're also using non-RFC1918 IP addresses for your internal network?
The 192.170.1.xxx was chosen as more than 50% of the gear came with that block OEM.

So are you saying there is no same subnet routing solution?

Neal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22611558 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:51:24 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22606183 elnino :
said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

Would a bridge not forward all broadcast from the RVON though? Using two subnets is not an option.
No, a bridge/switch would forward broadcast traffic to everyone on that subnet. The only way to create a new broadcast domain is to install a router and make a new subnet. Switches separate collision domains; routers separate broadcast domains.

Have you sniffed the traffic to see that it is broadcast traffic? Do you realize you're also using non-RFC1918 IP addresses for your internal network?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22606183 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:11:40 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22605547 A900MHz Fan :
said by Cabal See Profile :

said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

Every port on the RVON switch (that is connected) is constantly flashing in time with the group.
That's not a very good indication of capacity.

But you could easily do what you want to do with a system/router configured as a bridge, or use two subnets (simpler).
Would a bridge not forward all broadcast from the RVON though? Using two subnets is not an option.

Neal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22605547 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:13:33 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22605501 Cabal :
said by A900MHz Fan See Profile :

Every port on the RVON switch (that is connected) is constantly flashing in time with the group.
That's not a very good indication of capacity.

But you could easily do what you want to do with a system/router configured as a bridge, or use two subnets (simpler).
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22605501 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:01:51 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22605479 A900MHz Fan : RVON is all broadcast VoIP and data though, I need to keep that off the internet switch. Every port on the RVON switch (that is connected) is constantly flashing in time with the group.

Neal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22605479 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:57:36 EDT Re: Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22604175 tschmidt : Ethernet switch only broadcasts frame if if it does not know which port to use. If you put all the RVON stuff on one switch then the only traffic visible to the other switch will be broadcasts and any device not directly connected to the switch.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22604175 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:03:32 EDT Routing between the same subnet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22603404 A900MHz Fan : Is there any router (consumer) out there that can route between the same subnet? I have a need to send Internet and RVON over a single link but I would like to keep the noisy RVON gear off the internet switch except for the single link which needs to have both. Is this possible with something I can pick up at Best Buy?

Neal
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