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AstroBoy
join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD | I was told analog will be gone by year end I was talking to a Comcast support person about the 2 free DTAs and I was told analog will be gone by year end, so I better get DTAs on my analog TVs.
Can anyone confirm this? | |
|  
Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL | Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end Yes, this is true. About 20% of their markets will see the drop of analog by years end. I believe all markets will see it by the end of 2010. | |
| | GTFan
join:2004-12-03 | Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end Analog is not completely going away, the basic channels (2-34ish) will still be in analog. | |
| 
CRP
Comcast of Ocean County
join:2005-12-26
Brick, NJ | Celebrate when that comes!  | |
| | AstroBoy
join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by CRP  :Celebrate when that comes! I am sure the digital TV will look great on my 5 analog TVs!
And I will have yet another remote to use. | |
| | |
CRP
Comcast of Ocean County
join:2005-12-26
Brick, NJ
 ·Comcast
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end Look, I'm not a fan of Comcast by any means and have had my share of problems with them over the past 15 years, but I support them on this initiative. Once this digital migration of everything above Limited/Lifeline Basic is complete, they'll be able to offer more HD, faster internet etc. | |
| | | scanpa
Premium
join:2006-09-06
Lebanon, PA
| said by AstroBoy :said by CRP :Celebrate when that comes! I am sure the digital TV will look great on my 5 analog TVs! And I will have yet another remote to use. time to upgrade to some digital tv's. Analog Tube tv's went out 3-5 years ago when the FCC stopped allowing them to be type accepted for production. Same with the VCR. | |
| hussle87
Premium
join:2008-01-06
Sykesville, MD | I heard from a lady at my local Comcast office that we are sopposed to go all digital too. Hopefully were part of that 20%. | |
| 
lake stevens
@qwest.net
| I don't like having to use their box on my tv. I would like it alot better if they mapped the digital channels in a usable format. I got about 75 or do channels in 89.1,89.2 .... Another 75 or so in 97.1, 97.2 ... and so on. My set found 500+ channels but they are mostly on 6 channels and sub channels | |
| 
rrlover
join:2001-03-25
Marlborough, CT
| My area Vernon CT system will be fully digital on July 28.
they are adding an additional 8-10HDs on that day. so we will have over 75 HD channels (with premiums).
no increase in internet speeds (currently 8mg with powerboost).
the biggie for me is all basic cable will be on QAM but encrypted so you need a box for basic cable (except networks) regardless if you have a digital TV. you can use DTA or regular cable box. | |
| | markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by rrlover :the biggie for me is all basic cable will be on QAM but encrypted so you need a box for basic cable (except networks) regardless if you have a digital TV. you can use DTA or regular cable box. Or CableCard | |
| | ak3883
join:2005-08-20
Bensalem, PA
| said by rrlover :the biggie for me is all basic cable will be on QAM but encrypted so you need a box for basic cable (except networks) regardless if you have a digital TV. you can use DTA or regular cable box. Not true. Areas that Comcast has rolled out DTAs in, "basic cable" as you call it (ESPN,CNN,Discovery,TLC, etc) is NOT encrypted. Any TV with a QAM tuner can pick up these channels. This only applies to SD cable channels.
If Comcast/Pace gets the waiver(looking more likely that they will based on similar devices getting recent waivers), then this will all go away, and you would be right, you would need a cable box,DTA, or cablecard for every TV to view any "cable channel" | |
| | |
rrlover
join:2001-03-25
Marlborough, CT
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by ak3883 :said by rrlover :the biggie for me is all basic cable will be on QAM but encrypted so you need a box for basic cable (except networks) regardless if you have a digital TV. you can use DTA or regular cable box. Not true. Areas that Comcast has rolled out DTAs in, "basic cable" as you call it (ESPN,CNN,Discovery,TLC, etc) is NOT encrypted. Any TV with a QAM tuner can pick up these channels. This only applies to SD cable channels. If Comcast/Pace gets the waiver(looking more likely that they will based on similar devices getting recent waivers), then this will all go away, and you would be right, you would need a cable box,DTA, or cablecard for every TV to view any "cable channel" The letter i have specifically states that even a current digital TV will not pick up basic cable (15-99) unecrypted (QAM turner). it made no mention of SD channels (100>). You need either a cable card, dta or box. that is why i found it so strange that they are forcing boxes for regular cable. | |
| | | | markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by rrlover :The letter i have specifically states that even a current digital TV will not pick up basic cable (15-99) unecrypted (QAM turner). That is the eventual goal. In the mean time, because the DTA will not decrypt in it's current application, these channels are in the clear. People not using boxes/CC's to access these channels (clear QAM tuners) are on borrowed time. It is the broadcast channels carried on cable with granted, approved must-carry FCC licenses that are restricted from encryption. All other channels can be encrypted at the discretion of the negotiation between that channel and Comcast.
Death To Analog | |
| Chaldo
join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI | My area in Michigan got a letter saying after june 20, any day now we can lose channels 29-79 and they will go to digital, so we need to get DTA's. I already have my DTA's. | |
| | | 
cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
1 edit | Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end Yeah mike it was the Broadlogic Terapix.
I don't think they are able to meet price and qty requirements that would be acceptable to Comcast's goal. You figure every single analog sub, or sub with an analog TV would need one of these fairly expensive $2000+ bulk decoding device. However these will be beneficial to large scale in house systems. Think Hospitals / Nursing Homes, Schools/Colleges, Hotels/Motels, or other public places where there is a very large number of active connections. | |
| |
BB User
@charter.com
| said by mikedz4 :ok, here's my suggestion. Comcast and other cable companies should put a device at the demarcation point (point where the cable from the pole or underground enters the house) that decrypts the digital signal and turns it into analog signal. ... but wait, those original 75 analogs are now compressed to 8 QAMs which opened spectrum for the 67 channel slots previously filled with analog video. Those open channel slots are then filled with more QAMs for other channels: HD, SD, VOD, HSO, and others. Where do you broadcast the analog channels you create at the demarc if the channel slots are filled with QAMs and there isn't any open frequency space in the previously analog spectrum?
That's the problem with the Terapix and other demarc converters, you lose channel capacity on the output side due to the decompression. Digital compression took RF spectrum that had room for 150 or less analog channels and allowed 300 or more it it's place.
| |
| | | SpHeRe31459
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
1 edit | Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end Yep, that's why it's not a residential solution. It is a solution for commercial uses, hotels/schools/hospitals. They only want the expanded basic tier (or a subset thereof) and possibly one or two premium channels. | |
| | |
cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| said by BB User :
That's the problem with the Terapix and other demarc converters, you lose channel capacity on the output side due to the decompression. Digital compression took RF spectrum that had room for 150 or less analog channels and allowed 300 or more it it's place.
That's a moot point. Simply split the drop with a 2 way. 1 leg goes to the terapix. Output of terapix feeds all your analog needs through additional splitters or amplifiers.
Other leg of the 2 way from the main drop could go feed all your digital outlets through another splitter matrix.
That's not the issue... the primary issue is cost. An addressable device to take 8 QAM's, receive ECM's to decrypt them, decode the MPEG A/V, and translate it to 70 perfectly tuned 6 MHz channels without co-channel interference is going to cost a lot. Even if they found a great cost effective chipset, such a task is going to command great cost premiums just to recoup their R&D alone. | |
| 
mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV | there has to be a way to have something like that so that people who don't want stuck with boxes or those who need more than the alloted 2 or 3 free boxes wouldn't have to pay for those boxes. | |
| |
cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by mikedz4 :there has to be a way to have something like that »lmgtfy.com/?q=Broadlogic+Terapix | |
| | | | | | | neufuse
join:2006-12-06
Indiana, PA | Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end where we not just having a discussion on how that is almost no where and wont be anytime soon?  | |
| Mgsports
join:2004-11-11
Olathe, KS
| Good but don't know about my area because in the latest the Bill for my area the came out today the Online version just show about FCC Digital Switch no for your Information that you would get in a Bill in the Mail and Comcast Office in my area Olathe is not by where I live but on the West Side of the city and they could be Pamphlet there about when my area is going All Digital and adding like Caller ID and other Interactive Stuff on TV. | |
| BlueBeetle
join:2009-02-06
Arnold, MD
| I decided to stick with Comcast because of this deal. I would have preferred to go to Fios but Fios is all-digital which means all my analog equipment (Tivos, VCR, PC TV Tuner, Analog Slingbox etc) would become useless.
From looking at Comcast's site, it looks like Comcast will always offer "Limited Basic Cable" which doesn't require a set-top box to work with your TV. In other words, it is analog. Therefore, all my analog equipment will continue to be of some use -- I will be able to watch my local stations (ABC, CBS, NBC, CW, Fox etc) on them.
And I can get the additional digital channels on my TVs with the set-top box or DTAs. | |
| | Eth_Rem
Premium
join:2009-06-17
Denver, CO
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by BlueBeetle :From looking at Comcast's site, it looks like Comcast will always offer "Limited Basic Cable" which doesn't require a set-top box to work with your TV. In other words, it is analog. Therefore, all my analog equipment will continue to be of some use -- I will be able to watch my local stations (ABC, CBS, NBC, CW, Fox etc) on them. This is incorrect. We are dropping ALL analog signal carriage in 2012. The cable channels will all be migrated to digital by the end of 2010 but analog for locals (B1 tier is what it is referred to or basic cable) will continue only until 2012.
--
** I am a Comcast employee. Posts on this site are my own, not my employer's ** | |
| | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by Eth_Rem :said by BlueBeetle :From looking at Comcast's site, it looks like Comcast will always offer "Limited Basic Cable" which doesn't require a set-top box to work with your TV. In other words, it is analog. Therefore, all my analog equipment will continue to be of some use -- I will be able to watch my local stations (ABC, CBS, NBC, CW, Fox etc) on them. This is incorrect. We are dropping ALL analog signal carriage in 2012. The cable channels will all be migrated to digital by the end of 2010 but analog for locals (B1 tier is what it is referred to or basic cable) will continue only until 2012. i can already see the 12,000 calls in queue of people claiming they are going to the FCC saying its not right to take away their analog. sad thing is i feel that it wont be mostly old people, their uptake of DTAs seems more even then younger customers.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | | Eth_Rem
Premium
join:2009-06-17
Denver, CO
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by Kearnstd :said by Eth_Rem :said by BlueBeetle :From looking at Comcast's site, it looks like Comcast will always offer "Limited Basic Cable" which doesn't require a set-top box to work with your TV. In other words, it is analog. Therefore, all my analog equipment will continue to be of some use -- I will be able to watch my local stations (ABC, CBS, NBC, CW, Fox etc) on them. This is incorrect. We are dropping ALL analog signal carriage in 2012. The cable channels will all be migrated to digital by the end of 2010 but analog for locals (B1 tier is what it is referred to or basic cable) will continue only until 2012. i can already see the 12,000 calls in queue of people claiming they are going to the FCC saying its not right to take away their analog. sad thing is i feel that it wont be mostly old people, their uptake of DTAs seems more even then younger customers. Well they can complain to the FCC but the agreement to keep analog channels until 2012 was actually arranged in cooperation with the FCC. If we had the choice, we'd have trashed analog long ago because we knew that we would face a huge bandwidth crunch.
--
** I am a Comcast employee. Posts on this site are my own, not my employer's ** | |
| | | | | BlueBeetle
join:2009-02-06
Arnold, MD
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end Actually, I'm glad that Comcast is keeping some analog channels. I have tons of analog equipment that will now be still usuable because of this. I have multiple PCs and each of them have an analog TV tuner as well as analog Tivos, video recorders, and VCRs. I would hate to have to throw them out so soon.
To be honest, if Verizon provided a few analog channels, I would probably have switched to FIOS but I'm sticking with Comcast because of this.
I just received their digital set-top box and 2 DTAs earlier this week and I've been playing around with it and I noticed that many digital channels seem to be repeated. For example, G4 Tech TV is on channel 67 and a higher channel (146?). What is the purpose of repeating so many channels? It makes me wonder if most people really need 350 digital channels when a lot of them are repeated. Also, who uses those music channels? I would rather have fewer channels repeated and more unique and interesting channels available. For example, my parents would love to have a free Chinese channel available (I noticed that ZeeTV which is an Indian channel seems to be free on my system)
It seems to me there is bandwidth to spare to provide a few analog channels so households with older analog equipment won't need a set-top box for each of them in order to view the local stations. | |
| | | | | |
johnjefferson3
@comcast.net
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end Well sorry to burst you bubble, BlueBeetle but i am one of the most poorest people on dslreports.com and even i have a digital tv (RCA 14") with QAM for $100 at Walmart several years ago,hell it's small, but it works very very well,so i am not complaining so if you are still not ready, then you are the one that has a problem!! I been watching Technology evolve for over 35 years, And i am not sad at all that Analog is disappearing, in fact it should been gone 10 years ago!!, i am 100% behind comcast in this effort(even those i am against them in the pricing structure), by the end of 2010 no more B2 tier and B1 is gone by the end of 2012, in fact now that there a new FCC board i would recommend even going to change that order and get rid of it even faster, i think even comcast is too slow!!!! times are changing and people just have to get used to it, it's just that simple!!
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| | | | | | SpHeRe31459
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
1 edit | quote:
For example, G4 Tech TV is on channel 67 and a higher channel (146?). What is the purpose of repeating so many channels? It makes me wonder if most people really need 350 digital channels when a lot of them are repeated.
It happened in my area when Comcast moved some channels off of analog to the digital tier. However if you get digital cable Comcast maps the digital channel back to the former analog channel so it looks like nothing changed, but of course you also see it up in the 100+ range as well.
FYI generally they aren't actually duplicated (which would be wasting bandwidth). That is simply a channel mapping to the same digital stream. Like a shortcut in Windows or an alias under the MacOS.
quote:
Also, who uses those music channels?
I do when I want to throw on some music in the background, and when I have people over. I have a home theater setup and I can just turn it to a digital music station and turn the TV off but keep the receiver and speakers on.
I wouldn't worry about those using up bandwidth, they're rather low bitrate, since all they contain is a basic audio stream and essentially next to no video data. | |
| | | | | | | Comcaster912
join:2009-07-05
Berwyn, IL
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by SpHeRe31459 : For example, G4 Tech TV is on channel 67 and a higher channel (146?). What is the purpose of repeating so many channels? It makes me wonder if most people really need 350 digital channels when a lot of them are repeated. Actually. No channel repeats itself. Each channel is purposely placed there for a reason. For G4, or any channel, the "Standard Defintion" channel is listed first, then in the upper numbers, all the "High Definition" channels are listed together.
What you may have is "G4" Regular/standard and "G4" HighDef. | |
| | | | | | | | SpHeRe31459
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA | Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end I know that, why did you quote me? I was quoting the OP who didn't know that they weren't repeated... | |
| | | | | | | BlueBeetle
join:2009-02-06
Arnold, MD
| Does anyone know how many additional HD channels Comcast will be able to carry once they migrate most of their analog channels to digital?
Also, what are the chances that Comcast will offer some of the international (Chinese) channels? I think my parents would like that.
Finally, is it possible for someone to use Fios Internet along with Comcast Cable TV? | |
| | 
darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by BlueBeetle :Finally, is it possible for someone to use Fios Internet along with Comcast Cable TV? Yes, though you'll need a separate run from the Vz ONT to the VZ router -- by default it will be coax. | |
| | Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL | as high 3 per channel with poor PQ but likely some spots will be used by VOD and high speed internet.
They should go with 2 per channel and move old 3 on 1 to 2 on 1. | |
| | | markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: I was told analog will be gone by year end said by BlueBeetle :Does anyone know how many additional HD channels Comcast will be able to carry once they migrate most of their analog channels to digital? You will have room for ~100 additional to what you have now, what you receive will be based on regional negotiations and whether adding a channel to you will increase, remain, or decrease cost of carriage as subscriber-ship goes up. Most areas are clearing 45 analog channels (if you clear less, than less HD will be available and more = more). It will also depend on how much small-medium business is on your plant as a few of the freed analog channels may go to them exclusively (phone+internet) as their profit-cost ratio is higher than any other area of sale, by a very large margin.
said by BlueBeetle :Also, what are the chances that Comcast will offer some of the international (Chinese) channels? I think my parents would like that. Nothing to do with bandwidth crunch, per se. These channels take up next to no space at all (1/15th of an analog), it comes down to if the assignment of this tiny bandwidth is worth the cost to carry. It's a demand issue (lack thereof). Call in and request the channel... often.
said by BlueBeetle :Finally, is it possible for someone to use Fios Internet along with Comcast Cable TV? Possible? Yes. Likely? Dunno. You're splitting packages. Verizon and Comcast are not priced competitively on separate services, they compete price points on "plays" (double, triple, soon to be quad).
said by Joe12345678 :but likely some spots will be used by VOD and high speed internet. Absolutely. Looks like Comcast is bonding 3 channels for this round of Docsis 3.0 rollouts in most areas. VoD allocation may increase, if there is a need for it. Did you receive many long paused "One moment please" or "Video Error ###" when trying to load a movie or access a menu in VoD? If it was occurring often, then your area most definitely will allocate a few analog freed channels to VoD. Some may be allocated if Digital Starter+ packages are newly ordered in large amounts as well (influx of new VoD customers).
said by Joe12345678 :as high 3 per channel with poor PQ They should go with 2 per channel and move old 3 on 1 to 2 on 1. People who have no clue what's going on state this alot. When the variable bit floor of 8 ceiling of 20 mux of three HD feeds in a single QAM first appeared, the encoding buffer and process was way too small and under rated for the job at hand. The USA channel mux was the most troublesome with blocking and stuttering a very large issue. In high action, white blocks that some refer to as pixelation (macro/micro blocking) would appear. Other times, the screen would freeze for a bit with the audio continuing, then the movie would "pick up" and the audio would stutter before returning to normal. Over the last 18 months, most of these issues were worked out and it is running smoother these days.
The 3-1 mux still uses MPEG 2, lowering bitrate when compression of non-changing blocks spans multiple frames (unlike fixed bitrate which will refresh the block even when no change occurs). Many of the highest rated Blu-ray movies utilize MPEG 2 instead of MPEG 4. The codec is not the single factor in determining quality, the codec and bitrate pair for a given source is. Shopping networks that put up call and price information on 1/3 of the screen that barely change more than a few times every 5 minutes can have an extremely high quality service at a very, very low bitrate. Considering that video playback on a Blu-ray must be certified to at least 54 Mbps before receiving acceptance to sell to consumers, the codec in which a movie studio uses will not effect the end quality unless the bitrate is lowered to save space for features outside of the movie on a single-sided disc (25 GB). On a 2-1 mux, CC uses MPEG 2 fixed at 16~18 Mbps bitrate (btw, this is what Fios is currently using for all HD). On a 3-1 mux, the bitrate is variable and shared by all 3 to a total of 35~38 Mbps. Comcast's VoD uses MPEG 2 fixed at 15 Mbps. Uverse is employing MPEG 4 with a bitrate as low as 4 Mbps for some channels including ESPN. Satellite is a pure guess, when using MPEG 2 they average around 10~12 Mbps fixed. Their utilization of MPEG 4 has been theorize to be a slightly higher bitrate than Uverse. The bitrate for the codec between sat and cable is comparable. The difference in the codec's use at squeezed bitrates can skew one person's opinion over another. MPEG 4 has the ability to determine focus and background within a single frame. It applies less compression to that which is in focus and more compression to that which is in background. The background is also allowed to reduce color depth, sometimes resulting in the navy blue wall at a football stadium showing up as blue and black swimming ovals much like an oil spill on a rainy driveway. Some prefer the focus to be "sharper" in color and detail with the background digitally overcompressed to MPEG 2's larger block designation which usually results in the focus being "softer" while the background is superior. Others prefer the entire frame to be at a consistent quality such as MPEG 2 even if the people in the forefront (the "focus") have less pop. For most dramas, sitcoms, comedies, and documentaries MPEG 4 is opinionated to be superior while MPEG 2 is preferred for sports, action, sci-fi, nature. Of course, even using those genres is dangerously over simplifying it all. Given the correct bit-rate, no one codec is superior to another. Lowering the maximum bit-rate available, one codec can outshine another. Satellite has far less bandwidth available to each of it's channel streams than cable, it's migration to MPEG 4 was a long awaited sigh of relief from the days of bitstarved "HD Lite". As it stands today, the two are comparable.
Obviously, Joe12345678 prefers the overcompressed background/less compressed focus of MPEG 4 to the near homogeneous compression (increased compression of focus, decreased compression of background) across the frame that MPEG 2 provides. I, personally, would much rather the source determine the bit-rate & codec needed. Football on local affiliates and NFL Network was very, very hard to watch on DirecTV as the sidelines (top and bottom of screen) and back-field/secondary (far left and right of screen) were distractingly poor quality. The NFL Sunday Ticket is obviously given more space as the quality was remarkably better. I noticed no difference between NFLST and Comcast's broadcast of the same game when the opportunity to compare was available. Watching sitcoms, such as "The Closer", the DirecTV video gave the people more "pop" while the room they were standing in was very much out of focus and blurry. Comcast appeared to have less "pop" to the people while the room they were standing in looked more realistic. Depending on the quality of your TV, how close you sit to it compared to it's size, and how many lamps you have shining onto it; the difference between cable and sat can swing wildly. Fios is the only original compressed HD from the beginning days left.
As the analog reclamation finishes, I wouldn't doubt that many of the "troublesome" channels, those requiring a higher bit rate for satisfactory display, will either be placed on 2's or find much lower requiring sisters for the 3 mux. The muxing that Comcast "uses" is done by a different company, though owned by the Comcast parent company, and is offered to many, many other cable providers as well. The service is named "HITS".
I took liberties in this post by calling MPEG4 a "codec" as h.264, AVC and VC1 are very near equal for the scope of this post. | |
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| just to note of course that right now for network TV that cable is the only provider that doesnt need a digital tuner of some kind atm. i wonder though can the FCC prevent cable companies as whole from just one year saying ok no more analog and shut it all off to digital? considering FiOS and Satellite and even OTA all are digital.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
RFbandits
@comcast.net
| I for one would still like to see innovations in more robust modulation schemes. I know it's a little late in the game, but something to the tune of 1024QAM or maybe an 8PSK or something to the tune of 70mbps per 6 MHz channel. One can dream of course. For one, you would most likely be talking fiber to the block, if not curb, and all new CPE to take advantage of it.
So all in all, killing all analog is the defacto way to go about fixing the current cable bandwidth crisis. | |
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