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haroldo
join:2004-01-16
united state
 ·Comcast
2 edits | [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power Interesting discussion about the shift towards non-removable batteries.
quote:
New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power
June 25, 2009
by Walter S. Mossberg
The majority of laptop computers come with removable batteries. This approach allows you to pop in a fresh spare when your battery runs out of juice between charges, and to easily replace a battery when its lifespan is over.
But there’s a dirty little secret about removable-battery laptops owned by average consumers: Hardly anybody buys extra batteries. Research firm NPD estimates that fewer than 5% of consumers buy a spare. So, a small trend has begun in the industry: More electronic products are being designed with their rechargeable batteries sealed inside. For instance, Dell’s new high-end laptop, the Adamo, has a sealed battery, as does the excellent Flip pocket video camera.
The leading proponent of this idea is Apple, which has often led the industry in introducing or removing components from computers. This month, Apple unveiled two revised MacBook Pro laptops with higher-capacity, sealed-in batteries. In fact, Apple’s entire line of laptops now uses sealed batteries, except for one low-end MacBook model from last year’s series.
Apple says this makes sense because sealing in the batteries lets the company make them larger, without adding heft to the laptops. Apple says the two models are the same size and weight as their predecessors, yet their battery capacity has grown by 33% and 46%, respectively....
Read more at »ptech.allthingsd.com/20090625/ne···power-2/ (edit fixed link) | |
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stevennb
Ok, But, Thats The Last Straw.
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Wayne, NJ | Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power Your link doesn't work. | |
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rex0
join:2002-02-10
| There was a big thread about this when the first 17" with the on board battery came out. I think the consensus here was very few people ever took their battery out other then to replace it (which you can still do yourself on these new macs with 2 screwdrivers, assuming a 3rd party starts making batteries.) Since people are getting 7-8 hours real world use on them, you'd be hard pressed to spend 7-8 hours without coming across a receptacle. | |
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The Dv8or
DSLReports Forums -- The Mouse House 2.0
Premium
join:2001-08-09
Danbury, CT
clubs: | Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power The biggest drawback for this is on overseas flights. | |
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ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
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join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by The Dv8or  :The biggest drawback for this is on overseas flights. Then fly an airline that provides power at your seat. | |
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The Dv8or
DSLReports Forums -- The Mouse House 2.0
Premium
join:2001-08-09
Danbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by ArthurS :said by The Dv8or :The biggest drawback for this is on overseas flights. Then fly an airline that provides power at your seat. Which can be significantly more expensive, and many people who fly overseas do so for their company, and have no say in this. Good try, though, thanks for playing.
Haroldo, not having a battery work in a laptop is a VERY big deal. If you were able to get by with just a power cord, you should have saved the cash and gotten a desktop.
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haroldo
join:2004-01-16
united state
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by The Dv8or :...Haroldo, not having a battery work in a laptop is a VERY big deal. If you were able to get by with just a power cord, you should have saved the cash and gotten a desktop. It was an old iBook with Leopard, so it wasn't worth replacing, but it also wasn't worth buying a replacement battery.
The iBook rarely left the den, so it really wasn't a mobile computer.
When the display died, I bought the MacBook.
You can't pay me to use a desktop computer. | |
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The Dv8or
DSLReports Forums -- The Mouse House 2.0
Premium
join:2001-08-09
Danbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by haroldo :said by The Dv8or :...Haroldo, not having a battery work in a laptop is a VERY big deal. If you were able to get by with just a power cord, you should have saved the cash and gotten a desktop. It was an old iBook with Leopard, so it wasn't worth replacing, but it also wasn't worth buying a replacement battery. The iBook rarely left the den, so it really wasn't a mobile computer. When the display died, I bought the MacBook. You can't pay me to use a desktop computer. Its a big deal for those who actually let their laptop leave their desk and need to use it where an outlet isnt always accessible.
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r81984
Fair and Balanced
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join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL
 ·magicjack.com
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 ·AT&T Midwest
| said by haroldo :said by The Dv8or :...Haroldo, not having a battery work in a laptop is a VERY big deal. If you were able to get by with just a power cord, you should have saved the cash and gotten a desktop. It was an old iBook with Leopard, so it wasn't worth replacing, but it also wasn't worth buying a replacement battery. The iBook rarely left the den, so it really wasn't a mobile computer. When the display died, I bought the MacBook. You can't pay me to use a desktop computer. Replacement batteries for laptops are around 50 to 80 bucks, why is it not worth replacing?
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DavisPhotog
Flyingphotog
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-26
Oakland, CA
clubs: | Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power Replacement batteries for Apple laptops tend to be around $130. | |
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haroldo
join:2004-01-16
united state
·Comcast
| said by r81984 :Replacement batteries for laptops are around 50 to 80 bucks, why is it not worth replacing? Nah, not on a slow 5 year old iBook. At some point it's no longer worth investing in. | |
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ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
Premium
join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
| said by The Dv8or :said by ArthurS :said by The Dv8or :The biggest drawback for this is on overseas flights. Then fly an airline that provides power at your seat. Which can be significantly more expensive, and many people who fly overseas do so for their company, and have no say in this. Good try, though, thanks for playing. Nonsense! Many international carriers have power outlets throughout economy for their overseas flights, and their tickets are priced very competitively. If your time is soooo important that you need to work through the entire flight, then you will likely be flying business class, which increases your odds of getting seat power. 5-6 hours of battery life for work is plenty for a flight across the pond when you factor in time you will be sleeping and eating, been there, done that too many times. You can try again. | |
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The Dv8or
DSLReports Forums -- The Mouse House 2.0
Premium
join:2001-08-09
Danbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by ArthurS :If your time is soooo important that you need to work through the entire flight, then you will likely be flying business class, which increases your odds of getting seat power. 5-6 hours of battery life for work is plenty for a flight across the pond when you factor in time you will be sleeping and eating, been there, done that too many times. You can try again. That's a hell of an assumption to make, and is often untrue. Many people have shit they got to get done on the plane, but the company doesn't pony up for business class. Such is life in the current economy.
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You're so vain... I bet you think this post is about you. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by The Dv8or :said by ArthurS :If your time is soooo important that you need to work through the entire flight, then you will likely be flying business class, which increases your odds of getting seat power. 5-6 hours of battery life for work is plenty for a flight across the pond when you factor in time you will be sleeping and eating, been there, done that too many times. You can try again. That's a hell of an assumption to make, and is often untrue. Many people have shit they got to get done on the plane, but the company doesn't pony up for business class. Such is life in the current economy. Not only that, but not everyone flies for business. Laptops double as movie players, can play light games, etc. With WiFi being offered on flights, casual usage will increase as well. Hopefully power outlets will be offered, but I've never seen them on a domestic flight. | |
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ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
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join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by Matt :said by The Dv8or :said by ArthurS :If your time is soooo important that you need to work through the entire flight, then you will likely be flying business class, which increases your odds of getting seat power. 5-6 hours of battery life for work is plenty for a flight across the pond when you factor in time you will be sleeping and eating, been there, done that too many times. You can try again. That's a hell of an assumption to make, and is often untrue. Many people have shit they got to get done on the plane, but the company doesn't pony up for business class. Such is life in the current economy. Not only that, but not everyone flies for business. Laptops double as movie players, can play light games, etc. With WiFi being offered on flights, casual usage will increase as well. Hopefully power outlets will be offered, but I've never seen them on a domestic flight. I would think 5-6 hours of movie time is plenty for an overseas flight. Don't forget modern airplanes have entertainment systems as well! How many domestic flights are longer than 5-6 hours?  | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by ArthurS :I would think 5-6 hours of movie time is plenty for an overseas flight. Don't forget modern airplanes have entertainment systems as well! How many domestic flights are longer than 5-6 hours? Do you believe a modern laptop actually gets 5-6 hours while you are using it? Most reviews put the new Macbooks around 3:30 and the older Macbook at an hour less. | |
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ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
Premium
join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
1 edit | Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by Matt :said by ArthurS :I would think 5-6 hours of movie time is plenty for an overseas flight. Don't forget modern airplanes have entertainment systems as well! How many domestic flights are longer than 5-6 hours? Do you believe a modern laptop actually gets 5-6 hours while you are using it? Most reviews put the new Macbooks around 3:30 and the older Macbook at an hour less. What rock have you been hiding under? With careful management of resources, I get 3 1/2 to 4 hours of time with my first generation MacBook Pro 17" that is still on it's original, almost 3 year old battery. With the new MacBook Pro's, it's longer. Edit: With remarks like that, it seems to me you don't own a MacBook Pro, neither do you fly much. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power I have a first generation MBP and I am on my second battery.
I spend a lot of time away from the power adaptor, so I tend to burn through charge cycles.
I would prefer a slimier form factor that facilitated a tool free battery replacement. When it comes to the use of my mobile devices I'm a bit of a power user on the mobile front. I take full advantage of tether free computing and communicating.
Even though I practice good battery "hygiene" for lack of a better term, I haven't had a cell phone battery last me more than a year before going in the tank.
My MBP was my first desktop replacement, so I sure as shit mobiled it a LOT. I was glad to be able to replace the battery myself with no tools.
This is the first laptop I've had that was my primary computer for 3+ years and it's still going strong. I plan on cracking it open when Snow Leopard comes out and putting a much fatter HD in.
With the shift towards batteries that aren't user replaceable, looks like I'll be hanging on to my old MBP as long as possible....
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DavisPhotog
Flyingphotog
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-26
Oakland, CA
clubs:
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power Yeah, I've got to say that I'm trusting the demonstrated battery life benchmarks by the tech review outlets.
My 2007 MBP gets, if I'm lucky, 3 hours. 2 hours if playing a movie.
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I am the Flying Photog, see my website accordingly named Flyingphotog.com. User known formerly as zakooldude. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by bbarrera :said by Matt :Do you believe a modern laptop actually gets 5-6 hours while you are using it? Most reviews put the new Macbooks around 3:30 and the older Macbook at an hour less. Your kidding, right? AnandTech got nearly 5 HOURS with this benchmark: quote:
For this benchmark I'm downloading 10GB worth of files from the net (constant writes to the drive), browsing the web (same test as the first one) and watching the first two episodes of Firefly encoded in a 480p XviD format (Quicktime is set to loop the content until the system dies).
So 5 hours of serious computing, and 8 hours of web surfing. Go see for yourself: » www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.as···3580&p=4 Who's going to reduce the screen brightness to 50% unless you're flying at night? Not to mention usage in the airport. Let's be realistic here. The new Macbooks make GREAT strides in battery life, but they are still nowhere near the claimed life. This is not exclusive to Apple, all laptop makers lie about it.
»gizmodo.com/5287179/macbook-pro-2009-review | |
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ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
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join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
1 edit | Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by Matt :Who's going to reduce the screen brightness to 50% unless you're flying at night? Not to mention usage in the airport. Let's be realistic here. The new Macbooks make GREAT strides in battery life, but they are still nowhere near the claimed life. This is not exclusive to Apple, all laptop makers lie about it. » gizmodo.com/5287179/macbook-pro-2009-review I reduce the brightness of my MBP screen quite often, even during the daytime. If in an airport, I easily find an AC outlet to plug into if I need it. I think you're the one being unrealistic, do you own a MacBook Pro to back up your claims? I'm typing on one right now. | |
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ArthurS
Watch Those Blinking Lights
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join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON
1 edit | said by The Dv8or :said by ArthurS :If your time is soooo important that you need to work through the entire flight, then you will likely be flying business class, which increases your odds of getting seat power. 5-6 hours of battery life for work is plenty for a flight across the pond when you factor in time you will be sleeping and eating, been there, done that too many times. You can try again. That's a hell of an assumption to make, and is often untrue. Many people have shit they got to get done on the plane, but the company doesn't pony up for business class. Such is life in the current economy. Yep, and I'll wager to say that it's more true than untrue. Seems like you only work for slave drivers. If their work is so important that they need to take more than 5 or 6 hours of flight time to do it, most likely they are high enough up the ladder to get business class, or are frequent travelers that can get an upgrade (I used to do that all the time going SFO-NRT). How long is a flight from NYC to LHR? Subtract the appropriate #hours for meals, takeoff and landing, and you have the battery life of a MacBook Pro. I can tell you if a company expects me to work for the entire flight (or for that matter more than 5-6 hours on a flight, they can shove it! I need my rest to adjust to time changes as well so that I'm in my best shape to do business when I arrive! | |
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Maggs
Premium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY | Delta has power in the first 10 rows of seats in cattle class.
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA | I haven't needed to replace the battery in any laptop I've purchased in the past 8 years, Apple or otherwise.
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Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power The one on our Dell completely died to the point it was no longer recognized as being there, three months outside the warranty. Not crazy about this trend but with anything else, like HD replacement on the new iMacs, it can still be replaced, just not as easily. Wait for the online tutorials on these new laptops, they will be out soon enough. | |
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL
·Verizon FIOS
| My biggest desire for a removable battery would only apply if you could charge them outside of the notebook they were meant to plug in to.
I remember back in the olden days when you could buy multiple batteries... and a charger to be able to charge one outside of the laptop. This was good because then you could buy extras and simply pop out a discharged one in order to use a freshly charged battery to keep going.
Nowadays, where the hell are you going to find anything that will charge your laptop batteries separately from the laptop? You can't - or at least, I'd never been able to find anyone or anything that could do it. So why bother have a removable battery if you won't make something to justify having it removable?
In this sense, the added capacity of these integrated batteries (for its useful lifespan) outweigh the fact that it isn't removable in my eyes.
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vboyer
Slightly Ahead Of Time
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join:2002-01-27
Winter Park, FL
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by C0deZer0 :I remember back in the olden days when you could buy multiple batteries... and a charger to be able to charge one outside of the laptop. This was good because then you could buy extras and simply pop out a discharged one in order to use a freshly charged battery to keep going. Nowadays, where the hell are you going to find anything that will charge your laptop batteries separately from the laptop? You can't - or at least, I'd never been able to find anyone or anything that could do it. So why bother have a removable battery if you won't make something to justify having it removable? Toshiba makes external 2-battery chargers for their Tecra/Portege series of laptops. Have one to charge the spare battery...
Newer Technology makes external battery chargers for most of the Apple batteries, so if you really need one (like I did on a MacBook), you can get one.
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by vboyer :Toshiba makes external 2-battery chargers for their Tecra/Portege series of laptops. Have one to charge the spare battery... Too bad that those product lines generally don't have something that would be appealing to me as far as a notebook purchase. And, as you pointed out, it's so incredibly rare to hear of someone making external battery chargers for their notebooks anymore... which is sad, because if I had a notebook I liked and there was one available, I would be motivated to buy it along with some extra batteries so that I could just rotate batteries as one is discharged, which (in theory) should allow each one to last longer than if it was my one and only. I've noticed in my experiences that since going from a single hard drive to depend on to using even just a pair of them for a simple RAID, the average operating life of each hard drive I'd since had has at least been more than enough to live through its rated warranty, if not beyond. Before, I would be replacing drives almost annually (depending on brand) when I only just had one hard drive in a system.
said by vboyer :Newer Technology makes external battery chargers for most of the Apple batteries, so if you really need one (like I did on a MacBook), you can get one. Well, without these external battery chargers, there just isn't much incentive for me to buy a spare battery, because I'd have no real way to charge it without leaving it in the notebook with most companies' notebooks.
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obeythelaw
Premium
join:2003-04-16
Bayonne, NJ
 ·DIRECTV
| I think it's a good thing. More environmentally friendly and superb performance. If you are traveling long haul on a flight, you can usually plug in during the flight so i don't think that's a huge issue. i'm saving up for a mac book pro 15 inch and hope to get one in a few months. | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | For overseas flights, we'll probably see a return of external batteries. The laptops have provisions to take power from an external battery without charging their internal battery. | |
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See 13 replies to this post | |
Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| Cells in batteries can die; electronics that monitor batteries can fail. Either can render the internal battery useless, requiring a repair trip.
I don't care what their research reveals (I'm half a century old and have never been involved in any such research), removable batteries make perfect sense to me. If their research on this reveals anything on this it's a way to squeeze more money from consumers.
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jmycknshk
...bring your green hat
join:2004-07-02
West Chester, PA
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power thats the key, right there. as long as they make it so you have an option to replace the battery at a reasonable cost, i'm fine with the tradeoff. longer lasting battery, better, more solid design of the laptop? i'll take that deal every time.
the battery in my laptop is loose and wiggles and creaks against the palstic when i pick it up. it would be nice to have that not happen when moving about.
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rex0
join:2002-02-10
1 edit | On international flights, even economy class seats have a power outlet these days.
A serious question to those who fly overseas often, which airlines are you flying without power? I've had outlets even on the cheapest discount charters. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: [Mossberg] New Mac Laptops Use Batteries Sealed for Power said by rex0 :On international flights, even economy class seats have a power outlet these days. A serious question to those who fly overseas often, which airlines are you flying without power? I've had outlets even on the cheapest discount charters. Scandinavian Airlines (SAS)
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | You can pry my 9-cell and my spare 6-cell from my cold dead hands.  | |
| | | decx
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Vancouver, BC
·Bell Sympatico
| Many/most of the the planes used by top tier carriers (Especially for trans oceanic flights) are now equipped with standard AC power sources and are becoming more common all the time. The last few times I was traveling I only needed the battery while I was waiting at the airport. By the time I arrived, I have watched a couple of movies and had my battery fully charged. | |
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Eldon
join:2001-04-17
Chicago, IL
| So for the tiny % of people who are constantly flying Southwest over the Pacific and are forced to work for 9 hours of the flight (without pay) by their employer without a power outlet AND want to be able to watch a movie during their layover with NO power at the airport and then go straight from the plane to a meeting where there is also no power AND will never have a spare hour to go to the Apple store to get the battery replaced when it is EOL, just order one of these:
»www.hyperdrive.com/HyperMac-Exte···s/91.htm
It's more expensive than the standalone batteries have been, but it allows for longer battery time for the 99% of us who travel constantly with our MBP and, even today, don't carry a second battery. | |
| GameGuy369
join:2004-07-09
Olathe, KS
clubs: | After having been around warranty work for years... this is the dumbest idea ever. I cant wait til customers come asking for a manager about this one.... | |
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Nemokrad
join:2002-04-24
Miami, FL | I don't even understand why this issue is even debatable. There are external batteries with magsafe connectors. There's nothing to complain about. | |
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haroldo
join:2004-01-16
united state
·Comcast
1 edit | [sarcasm]I guess we've come to a conclusion.
People who spend most of their time near a power outlet should consider buying the new sealed battery MacBooks.
People who travel extensively on airplanes without outlets (is that a double negative?) might consider these units, but would need to travel with a spare computer (synchronized with MobileMe) to use in case they run out of power.
[/sarcasm] | |
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haroldo
join:2004-01-16
united state
·Comcast
2 edits | Re: One reason for this:Put more money in Apple's Pockets said by RR Conductor :Hmm, and they say Microsoft is the big, greedy "man"  Apple has good products and is selling a ton of them, things like this will only sour their reputation. It's absurd to ridicule a company for seeking profit, that is the only reason why they exist.
Innovation is an integral part of all business decision. Some are good, some aren't, the consumer gets to decide. If enough people like the product change, it will become the norm, if not, it will fade away.
I have a great idea...for all those that are opposed to laptops with sealed batteries...don't buy one.
There are plenty of laptops for sale that have replacable batteries.
Millions upon millions of iPods/iPhones are being sold with sealed batteries. | |
| | jram
join:2003-08-06
Albany, NY
| Hmm, and they say Microsoft is the big, greedy "man" Apple has good products and is selling a ton of them, things like this will only sour their reputation.
This will catch on fast, nothing wrong with sealed batteries. I get over 7 hours on a charge without even trying. Most users don't buy a spare battery. To replace the battery where I live , you call for an appointment, it cost 159 plus tax, you can wait. I rather pay that than have to fool with a spare battery that I wouldn't purchase anyway. As you will see most will follow Apple. My old PB still has the same battery after 1500 cycles so..... | |
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Eldon
join:2001-04-17
Chicago, IL
| said by RR Conductor :Hmm, and they say Microsoft is the big, greedy "man" Apple has good products and is selling a ton of them, things like this will only sour their reputation. You would think that Apple would have learned from the past when they were foolish enough to adopt that new-fangled "USB" for keyboards and mice and started shipping computers without floppy drives.. oh the uproar those things caused. | |
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