Topic 'Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP?' in forum 'Verizon Fiber Optics' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22614932 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:57:09 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:57:09 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22660576 said by celtic:

Migrating your FiOS connection from PPPoE to DHCP This D-Link router firmware upgrade migrates your router connection from the PPPoE protocol to DHCP. This update will reduce connection issues and make troubleshooting easier if issues arise.

The D-Link firmware upgrade applies only to the Model DI-604 and DI-624 routers.

»www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHel···4638.htm
Verizon apparently removed this article last week. To read the article paste "Migrating your FiOS connection from PPPoE to DHCP" into Google and look at the cached version.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22660576 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:16:42 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22656842 said by Rattler:

Straighten me out here...

I thought that once the router takes care of the PPPoE between it and the Verizon server (or wherever), what goes on between the router and the LAN machines is done via DHCP from the router or fixed LAN IP assignment - no PPPoE between the machine and the router. The computer's CPU shouldn't be doing anything about the PPPoE connection to Verizon.

Admittedly, the MTU of 1492 vs. 1500 slows things a bit (~0.6%, theoretically) but that shouldn't be responsible for pulling your speed down to the numbers you mentioned (80/92).

Also, if the ports are 100/10 on the router and the computer's NIC, you'd not get full 100 anyway. Do you get 100 Mb/s or more on intra-LAN transfers?
My router is a computer (1.7 Ghz). And yes downloading a file via apache hosted off my router box gives me around 400 megabits but PPPoE uses a ton of CPU usage. Even when I hooked it directly into my comp (core 2 quad q6600) I was able to get around 95 megabits down but even on a modern system it used 30% CPU usage on a single core when transfering at the full speed. For some reason uploading uses less CPU usage than downloading on PPPoE.
--
100mb/100mb OCN fiber connection for $50/month. YAY!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22656842 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:01:23 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22656827
I thought that once the router takes care of the PPPoE between it and the Verizon server (or wherever), what goes on between the router and the LAN machines is done via DHCP from the router or fixed LAN IP assignment - no PPPoE between the machine and the router. The computer's CPU shouldn't be doing anything about the PPPoE connection to Verizon.

Admittedly, the MTU of 1492 vs. 1500 slows things a bit (~0.6%, theoretically) but that shouldn't be responsible for pulling your speed down to the numbers you mentioned (80/92).

Also, if the ports are 100/10 on the router and/or the computer's NIC, you'd not get full 100 anyway. Do you get 100 Mb/s or more on intra-LAN transfers?
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22656827 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:56:53 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22656425 --
100mb/100mb OCN fiber connection for $50/month. YAY!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22656425 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 09:36:42 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22655614
Waited several months, called back and said I wanted DHCP instead of PPPoE. It took 5 minutes - they re-provisioned the line in 5 minutes without disconnect/reconnect. The started the re-provision, 2 minutes later they asked me to login to the router and change it from PPPoE to DHCP and reboot. 1 minute later I was on DHCP.

No issues at all and no hassle.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22655614 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:27:34 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22651658 said by birdfeedr:

Careful. If you keep TV, you're keeping some sort of internet connection. Because of that you may not get a new connection when you restore internet.
...
Like I'm going to buy TV from a company that treats me like this. :huh:

I do appreciate your advice. I tried to buy TV a few months after Verizon got their local franchise. I understood we got DHCP with TV. Verizon reps handled my calls so poorly I decided to wait until they had more experience. Later I discovered TV didn't come with DHCP. I should have quit then.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22651658 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:33:24 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22651149 said by cbrain:

I found the perfect Comcast internet promotion for my situation. The below program allows me to test Comcast internet @ $19.99/month without changing TV or phone.
Careful. If you keep TV, you're keeping some sort of internet connection. Because of that you may not get a new connection when you restore internet.

There's some sort of limit on *where* it can go to get TV data. Someone claimed that they could browse the internet using a TV-only router connection, but that was refuted as "not possible" without a provisioning mistake.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22651149 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:28:21 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22650992
The only time my IP changed with Comcast was when I changed routers. I could have kept my original IP by cloning the MAC.

-----Comcast Internet Offer-----

Offer Name: PERFORMANCE non-cable customer
Promotional Monthly Rate: 19.99
Promotion Description: $19.99/month for the 1st 6 Months!!
Regular Monthly Rate: $59.95

Offer Includes:

HSD Features:
Upload Speed: Up to 1 Mbps
Download Speed: Up to 6 Mbps
Email Accounts: 7
Webspace: 10 GB
Dial Up Access: False
Static IP Addresses: 0
Dynamic IP Addresses: 1
System Requirements:
Operating Systems: Windows 98se, ME, 2000, XP; Processor Speed: 300 MHz or higher; Memory: 128MB; Hard Drive Space: 150 MB of available space; CD-ROM Drive: Required; USB Port: Recommended; Browser: IE 6.0 SP1 Operating Systems: MAC OS 9.0 thru 10.3 excluding 10.0; Processor Speed: PowerPC 603 / 200 MHz for MAC OS 9.x; Power MAC G3 for MAC OS 10.x; Memory: 128MB; Hard Drive Space: 100 MB of available hard drive space; CD-ROM Drive: Required; USB Port: Optional
Other Details:

Install Price: $0.00 Once.
Hardware:
Hardware Price: $0.00 Once.
Tech Support: none

»www.buycomcast.com/Order/orders1.aspx?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22650992 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:55:23 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22642306
done and done.

-j
--
if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22642306 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:48:24 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22639910 said by JeepMatt:

Back when I got FIOS Internet installed in May 2006 - I was set up on PPPoE...

A few months later - all I did was go into the router settings and changed the setting - i've been on DHCP ever since.

No account changes, nada - all just in the router diagnostics pages...
Do you think if I cross my fingers and chant "I do believe in ferries" as I change my router settings it will work for me? ;)

I just got a call from my FiOS reseller. Verizon canceled my order but did inform them my service would terminate on July 31. They can re-place the order after that but re-seller orders take 2 to 3 weeks to install.

Verizon is thorough. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22639910 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:52:20 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22639102
A few months later - all I did was go into the router and changed the setting - i've been on DHCP ever since.

No account changes, nada - all just in the router diagnostics pages...
--
"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22639102 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:13:35 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22639052 said by birdfeedr:

...Your style hasn't changed much in all that time either.
...
I have a static IP. ;)

Bottom line ... Verizon could add a customers credentials to their DHCP server, user changes router settings and is on DHCP with minutes of down time. Confirmed by 3 senior techs over 3 years. Verizon has like a firewall between order processing, billing and tech. Tech can't do anything without an order. Ordering doesn't have a "line item" for this change so it can't be done.

This leaves the account close then open a new one scenario ... but Verizon can't schedule a close and re-open in 1 order, and, can't open a new account until the old account is closed. This can add days of unpredictability to this transition. Every account change appears to be "temporary" for 30 days. Probably in anticipation of the expected screw ups. Not a bad idea except when trying to kill an old connection so the new connection will come up on DHCP. Verizon promised me this early this year. One day down turned into 4 and the account came back PPPoE. The response was basically Oh well ... we tried, and because it wasn't in 1 order anyone following up couldn't see what we were trying to accomplish.

I tried placing an order with a FiOS re-seller last week. It appears the order won't take with Verizon because I have current FiOS.

My options appear to be try another account close and re-open, or go to Comcast and close the Verizon account for at least 2 months. A much safer bet. For the past 2 weeks I've been trying to get a commitment that if the account comes back up PPPoE it will be treated as an incomplete order and escalated in the same process. I also want a limit to the down time before escalation. I get a lot of sympathy and understanding, but no action.

Back in 2005, I was watching FiOS and probably would have eventually ordered it. I like technology but aim to be the 3rd or 5th on the block to try something new. My Comcast inet and TV were working well but I had a billing issue Comcast was being stubborn with. After I placed the Verizon order I resolved the Comcast issues and got retention pricing that was lower than FiOS. FiOS worked and I kept Verizon. If I order Comcast and it works, I won't cancel them just to get back to a company that failed to make allowance for my needs.

Both Verizon and Comcast spend a lot of advertising, promo and direct mail dollars to get and keep my account. Verizon will make at least as much effort to disconnect me now and re-connect me later assuming I come back. Why not eliminate the middleman?

Below is a quote from my Comcast review ... it could be written for Verizon.

" ******* 03-28-2005 ***********
Last week I discontinued both Comcast internet and video. My services have been reliable since my 4-2003 review. Comcast's retention department had me on an good price promotion, less that the services I replaced them with. I simply grew weary of dealing with Comcast.
...
Considering the great network Comcast currently has, I hope they can come to grips with these issues and learn to deal with their real customers, end users. At the very least, if they do learn, they may provide competition to help keep Verizon on its toes."

»/comment/25414]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22639052 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:01:29 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22636385 said by celtic:

said by More Fiber:

That post was from 2006.

As was stated in an earlier post, VZ stopped converting users from PPPOE to DHCP.
Yes ... in 2006 Verizon already knew how to allow an account to use either PPPoE or DHCP without closing the account for 24 hours and then placing a new order.
Anyone know why Verizon stopped the general conversion to DHCP? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22636385 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:57:20 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22636202 said by cbrain:

And here is a link to some clown that attempted to switch in January 2007 and failed.

»[northeast] PPPoE to DHCP

I spoke with an 'elite' rep that understood what I wanted and said "I wouldn't want to be on PPPoE either." He did a quick check and called the order processing department, explained what was needed then transferred me in. The order rep had a question and put me on hold. Some time later a new rep picked up and didn't know ...

Good Lord, two-and-a-half years later you're still trying to get it done the easy way? Their response is the same now as it was then. "Maybe, but we need to really break your account apart. Let's see, 2-lb. hammer or 16-lb. sledge. Hmmm."

Your style hasn't changed much in all that time either. I'll give you at least double points for consistency, and throw in a shot of respect usually reserved for heroic persistence. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22636202 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:18:04 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22635521
Turns out my router doesn't handle DHCP and neither does my CO. I better rush out and change my neighbors to PPPoE. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22635521 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:02:22 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22635130 said by More Fiber:

That post was from 2006.

As was stated in an earlier post, VZ stopped converting users from PPPOE to DHCP.
Yes ... in 2006 Verizon already knew how to allow an account to use either PPPoE or DHCP without closing the account for 24 hours and then placing a new order. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22635130 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:48:58 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22634853
»[northeast] PPPoE to DHCP

said by tp0d:

...
otherwise, when you call into the FSC, ask for the 'elite' support group. they know their stuff..
...
I spoke with an 'elite' rep that understood what I wanted and said "I wouldn't want to be on PPPoE either." He did a quick check and called the order processing department, explained what was needed then transferred me in. The order rep had a question and put me on hold. Some time later a new rep picked up and didn't know ...

I got a call from a rep in the retention department. I'm not sure which call she was responding to. She said she would figure out how to get this done and call me back ... been over 2 days now]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22634853 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:59:00 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22634712
I had the original DLINK and all it kept doing was "searching for DHCP" every 15 minutes but I was still on PPPoE.

Well needless to say, it never found DHCP because on my provisioned line DHCP does not exist,only PPPoE until big Red changes it at their end.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22634712 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:35:08 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22634674
As was stated in an earlier post, VZ stopped converting users from PPPOE to DHCP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22634674 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:28:26 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22633081
»[new technologies] DHCP is up and running

Why can't Verizon arrange this for customers wishing to change?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22633081 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:51:23 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22630398 said by SquareSlinky:

said by ProFiOSDude:

Disconnect your service then establish new service.

PFD
the point was not having to disconnect and reconnect.
the point is that's exactly what a customer has to do if they initiate the change]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22630398 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:16:30 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22630343 said by ProFiOSDude:

Disconnect your service then establish new service.

PFD
the point was not having to disconnect and reconnect. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22630343 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:05:44 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22630254 said by ProFiOSDude:

Looking at past posts, some people were still be provisioned PPPoE as recent as this past Spring. FIOS switched to DHCP in mid 2006. Got some links?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22630254 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:48:29 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22630097
Getting switched from PPPoE to DHCP is only possible if your Central Office configured as such. Looking at past posts, some people were still be provisioned PPPoE as recent as this past Spring. If your neighbor is DHCP, then you should also be able to go to DHCP.

How?

Disconnect your service then establish new service.

PFD]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22630097 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:20:19 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22629205
Then again, it could simply be related to the reliability of the layer1/layer2 technology and the company supporting the infrastructure.

My experience with SBC and Comcast was that when I had DHCP with Comcast my IP address never changed. In fact, it survived a 3 week period in which I actually physically moved from an apartment to a house. I plugged in my same cable modem and same ethernet card in the new house after a 20 day hiatus and I immediately snagged the same IP address via DHCP.

When I had SBC, any sort of hiccup on the line would cause PPPoE to crap itself and re-establishing a PPPoE connection was a guaranteed new IP. This may have changed since I've been an SBC/AT&T customer.
--
He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22629205 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:31:32 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22629177 said by cdru:

With DHCP, you have an explicit lease that expires at a regular interval. With PPPoE, it's assigned to your connection. Now the connection may be closed (either forcibly by the ISP or via a network/hardware failure) but as long as your router stays connected you'll usually stick with the same address. I just rebooted my router several times and the newly established PPPoE connection each time always grabbed the same IP address.In my experience, reconnecting a PPPoE session meant a new IP address EVERY time. If Verizon is doing something differently or they have a larger IP address pool then I could see getting the same IP address. If the PPPoE server dies, guess what? You not only lose your connection, you lose your IP address. If a DHCP server goes down, chances are you wouldn't even notice unless it was an extended outage and the leases database typically survives a restart of the DHCP server (at least the software DHCP servers I know of).

Well, this is the Verizon forum, not the AT&T. Verizon will screw up your billing, but you'll get a reliable connection. Apparently AT&T might be able to get the billing straight, can't figure out the connection part. Perhaps the two companies should merge or something. :)
I don't consider any PPPoE connection reliable. The only advantages to PPPoE are for the ISP (billing/usage/etc tie-ins to the radius server and better utilization of an IP address pool).

Seriously though, yes it is an additional point of failure. But any ISP, especially of Verizon or AT&T's size should have high availability/redundancy in their systems. If they don't, then it's not a failure of the technology but rather of the specific implementation. Specifically with Verizon FiOS, I don't think I've ever had a PPPoE related issue since being one of the early adopters of FiOS.
Well apparently AT&T/SBC did not (do not?) utilize any sort of redundancy or live fail over because when the PPPoE server went tits up, you knew it immediately ;)

Prior to resetting my router just now, my existing IP address was 11 days old and that was just as far back as my logs went. Yes it's not static, but it's also not very dynamic either. Whether your address is changing every couple days or every couple of month, the thing is that under either scenario, the address has change. Neither offers guaranteed static addressing and the address could change at any time if there was a major issue somewhere in the network.
I think you'll have a hard time convincing anyone who has used both DHCP and PPPoE that they have similar IP address retention. Far from it.

If you need to authenticate via IP address, neither technology is perfect for 100% "uptime" authenticating. If you just need pseudo-static addressing without needing to actually pay for it, either technology with Verizon (both with DSL and FiOS) will work from my experience without issue. If you need to contact your machine remotely, use one of the dynamic dns services out there...the changes either way are infrequent enough to cause not too many problems.
I think the OP would beg to differ. He's obviously wanting to move from PPPoE to DHCP for a reason. Yes of course it's not static, but it does provide more stability as far as how long you keep an IP address.

Me personally, I would not want to go through the red tape. I trust Verizon to keep my connection operating as long as I don't make major changes. Switching from PPPoE to DHCP or anything that contains the works "rebuild", "connection", or "account" is like playing russian roulette with billing. If the existing connection is stable and you aren't having problems, I don't think the gains justify the risks. But if you are having problems, can live without an internet connection for a day (or possibly a week [or two]), or you feel lucky, then go for it.
I wouldn't suggest the OP do it either. If Verizon had their sh*t together, they could do the conversion much more quickly and the OP wouldn't have had to start this thread. :huh:
--
He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22629177 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:26:30 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22629122 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22629122 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:20:02 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628935 said by tp0d:

...
otherwise, when you call into the FSC, ask for the 'elite' support group. they know their stuff.
...
verizoned - from Urban Dictionary

1. To neuter, or remove features from an electronic device, especially a cell phone, with the intent to make more money.

I propose an addition ... 2. to place a customer on hold after working out a resolution to the problem but before entering the order to achieve the results then abandoning the call.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628935 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:45:36 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628328 said by cbrain:

So that overhead does make a difference. ;)Point taken, but in the case of DSL it was from the days when 1.5mbit was the fastest you could get for about 2x what FiOS costs these days and people really bitched about not getting every last drop that they were paying for. On a 768 or 1500 kbit connection, 8 bytes per packet feels like a lot more then what it does on a 20mbit connection.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing. Be sure to follow up with the experience for others to reference in the future.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628328 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:56:18 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628274
The 2 most cost effective options for my home are Comcast and Verizon FiOS. I have multi year experience with both at my home. I rate FiOS/DHCP first, Comcast/DHCP second and FiOS/PPPoE third for the square mile surrounding my home and for my current needs. I'm after my first choice and will no longer accept number three. I'll stipulate everyone else is correct for Earth, but my decision has been made for my home. I'm looking for help to get my first choice within the shortest time and least effort.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628274 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:45:55 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628089
When I had V* DSL, I was on PPPoE. I had my router set to keep the connection alive by sending a few dummy packets every couple of minutes. In general, I would go several months with the same IP address - at one point, I seem to remember that it was on the order of a half year with the same IP.

When I got FiOS, I was switched to DHCP. I've had FiOS since Feb, 2008. Not only do I change IP a couple times a month but I change IP blocks, switching around between 71.x.x.x, 72.x.x.x and 96.x.x.x. For the past few weeks, I have been on the 96.245.xxx.xxx block. and the last octet has changed twice, that I know of.

The router is on 24/7 and I do not think I am doing anything to trigger the changes.

Additionally, my daughter is provisioned with FiOS PPPoE at 20/5 from another CO. I have run a bunch of speed tests, on both our connections, and the results show insignificant differences between the two. As a matter of fact, hers usually tests at slightly over 5 Mbps on U/L where mine is consistently around 4.95 Mbps. On D/L, we both test in the 19.6 - 19.8 Mbps range - no reasonable evidence as to which connection is faster. And, BTW, I am GPON and she is BPON.

Anecdotal, at best, but that's what I've seen.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628089 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:12:57 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628028 said by cdru:

I don't know if it's still the case, but back with DSL PPPoE customers were over provisioned more then DHCP to account for the overhead. As a result their real-world speeds were often faster then their DHCP counterparts. Other then that, there isn't really a advantage for PPPoE for the end user. ...
So that overhead does make a difference. ;)
said by cdru:

said by cbrain:

Isn't it up to each user to make their own choice?
Honestly, no. I don't think it's a "choice" of the consumer. You are paying for a internet connection. PPPoE or DHCP, they are both industry norms and very widely supported. If it was some obscure technology that no one supported then people can complain. But who cares what format the data is transmitted. As long as you get your stated speed, low latency, and don't have packet loss, what difference does it really make if it was transmitted even using a string and two cups?
My choice would be to not use a string and two cups.

I had USNet/Covad DSL with a static IP in '99/2000, and never would consider DSL using PPPoE. When I ordered FiOS, my understanding was they were planning to transition us in a year or 2. I have written confirmation this is still the plan but no date.

My current array of choices include terminating FiOS for 31 days the re-ordering from Verizon or a FiOS reseller. I am attempting to eliminate the overhead of so many changes for both Verizon and myself. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628028 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:01:56 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628017 said by pflog:

I respectfully disagree. By the very nature of DHCP, it tries to retain the same IP address by renewing the lease 1/2 way through the lease duration. Barring a complete "reboot" or restart of the DHCP server, you will continue to get the same IP address. PPPoE on the other hand will give you a new IP every time (unless otherwise configured differently on the server side).With DHCP, you have an explicit lease that expires at a regular interval. With PPPoE, it's assigned to your connection. Now the connection may be closed (either forcibly by the ISP or via a network/hardware failure) but as long as your router stays connected you'll usually stick with the same address. I just rebooted my router several times and the newly established PPPoE connection each time always grabbed the same IP address.

PPPoE adds 2 additional points of failure. The PPPoE server and the radius server for authentication. All you have to do is go through the AT&T forums to see various reports of "sync no surf", which is a problem with the PPPoE server or radius server preventing authentication and establishment of the tunnel.
Well, this is the Verizon forum, not the AT&T. Verizon will screw up your billing, but you'll get a reliable connection. Apparently AT&T might be able to get the billing straight, can't figure out the connection part. Perhaps the two companies should merge or something. :)

Seriously though, yes it is an additional point of failure. But any ISP, especially of Verizon or AT&T's size should have high availability/redundancy in their systems. If they don't, then it's not a failure of the technology but rather of the specific implementation. Specifically with Verizon FiOS, I don't think I've ever had a PPPoE related issue since being one of the early adopters of FiOS.

Granted, a DHCP server can also go down, but in my experience with PPPoE, I lost my IP much, much more frequently than with DHCP.
Prior to resetting my router just now, my existing IP address was 11 days old and that was just as far back as my logs went. Yes it's not static, but it's also not very dynamic either. Whether your address is changing every couple days or every couple of month, the thing is that under either scenario, the address has change. Neither offers guaranteed static addressing and the address could change at any time if there was a major issue somewhere in the network.

If you need to authenticate via IP address, neither technology is perfect for 100% "uptime" authenticating. If you just need pseudo-static addressing without needing to actually pay for it, either technology with Verizon (both with DSL and FiOS) will work from my experience without issue. If you need to contact your machine remotely, use one of the dynamic dns services out there...the changes either way are infrequent enough to cause not too many problems.

Me personally, I would not want to go through the red tape. I trust Verizon to keep my connection operating as long as I don't make major changes. Switching from PPPoE to DHCP or anything that contains the works "rebuild", "connection", or "account" is like playing russian roulette with billing. If the existing connection is stable and you aren't having problems, I don't think the gains justify the risks. But if you are having problems, can live without an internet connection for a day (or possibly a week [or two]), or you feel lucky, then go for it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22628017 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:01:05 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627795 said by cbrain:

While this may be technically true ... it absolutely does not work that way in the real world. At least in any area I've worked. Can you come up with any real advantage to PPPoE for the end user?I don't know if it's still the case, but back with DSL PPPoE customers were over provisioned more then DHCP to account for the overhead. As a result their real-world speeds were often faster then their DHCP counterparts. Other then that, there isn't really a advantage for PPPoE for the end user. The real benefit was on the ISP/telco side of the network as existing communication and billing infrastructures that were used for dialup were easily reused for broadband connections. The PPPoE connection was just treated as another "dial up" connection and metering or other information was easily integrated.

Anymore the connection setup and tear down that is required with PPPoE is essentially transparent to the end user as a router handles it on demand or just keeps it alive.

How much real difference will most of the new speeds make on a residential connection?
I'm not sure where this fits in with discussing PPPoE, but the new speeds for an overwhelming majority of users won't make too much of a difference as they are only using a fraction of their bandwidth anyways. Large downloads maybe will be quicker, but if a webpage loads in a fraction of a second anyways, a few milliseconds shaved off of that won't be noticeable. For streaming content, as long as there is enough bandwidth to satisfy the stream additional bandwidth is just icing.

Isn't it up to each user to make their own choice?
Honestly, no. I don't think it's a "choice" of the consumer. You are paying for a internet connection. PPPoE or DHCP, they are both industry norms and very widely supported. If it was some obscure technology that no one supported then people can complain. But who cares what format the data is transmitted. As long as you get your stated speed, low latency, and don't have packet loss, what difference does it really make if it was transmitted even using a string and two cups?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627795 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:21:49 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627657 said by cdru:

said by cbrain:

1. I log into several systems that use IP authentication. DHCP offers a much more stable IP.
Neither is inherently more stable then the other. Both have mechanisms to reacquire the same IP address. Both have the ability to force an IP address to change if required when a lease times out. I've had both from Verizon with either DSL or with FiOS and both VERY rarely change but they have changed with either technology. If you are using any type of authentication that requires your IP address to be semi-static, you will have the exact same issues either way.I respectfully disagree. By the very nature of DHCP, it tries to retain the same IP address by renewing the lease 1/2 way through the lease duration. Barring a complete "reboot" or restart of the DHCP server, you will continue to get the same IP address. PPPoE on the other hand will give you a new IP every time (unless otherwise configured differently on the server side).

PPPoE adds 2 additional points of failure. The PPPoE server and the radius server for authentication. All you have to do is go through the AT&T forums to see various reports of "sync no surf", which is a problem with the PPPoE server or radius server preventing authentication and establishment of the tunnel.

In fact, I ditched SBC (now AT&T) at the time, because they were moving people from real static IPs to "sticky" PPPoE IPs (PPPoE that assigns the same IP each time) because I didn't want to have my connection rely on the PPPoE/radius servers, which were problematic (at least for SBC).

Granted, a DHCP server can also go down, but in my experience with PPPoE, I lost my IP much, much more frequently than with DHCP.
--
He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. -Socrates]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627657 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:00:37 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627579 said by cdru:

Neither is inherently more stable then the other. Both have mechanisms to reacquire the same IP address. Both have the ability to force an IP address to change if required when a lease times out. ...While this may be technically true ... it absolutely does not work that way in the real world. At least in any area I've worked. Can you come up with any real advantage to PPPoE for the end user?

How much real difference will most of the new speeds make on a residential connection? Isn't it up to each user to make their own choice?

There's no problem with wanting DHCP or PPPoE and I'm not trying to discourage you from switching if you want. It's your prerogative. I'm just trying to state factual information.
Thanks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627579 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:50:56 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627432 said by cbrain:

1. I log into several systems that use IP authentication. DHCP offers a much more stable IP.
Neither is inherently more stable then the other. Both have mechanisms to reacquire the same IP address. Both have the ability to force an IP address to change if required when a lease times out. I've had both from Verizon with either DSL or with FiOS and both VERY rarely change but they have changed with either technology. If you are using any type of authentication that requires your IP address to be semi-static, you will have the exact same issues either way.

2. Why waste the overhead, no matter how insignificant, for an inferior system.
You are reducing the data payload 8 bytes of a 1500 byte maximum, or 1/2 of 1% of the total capacity. Your line isn't absolutely provisioned for exactly 10/2, 20/5 or whatever your subscribed plan is. It's more of a soft limit that you'll usually bounce around sometimes a little more or sometimes a little less. "Wasting" or not wasting 8 bytes will have ZERO noticeable effect on your throughput of a 10+mbit connection.

There's no problem with wanting DHCP or PPPoE and I'm not trying to discourage you from switching if you want. It's your prerogative. I'm just trying to state factual information. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627432 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:16:12 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627304 I can't be bothered changing for fear of billing hell and don't want to spend my days fighting the phone company.

My neighbor had her credit card expire and they cut her off one day. She called them up and got her service back the same day and now she is on DHCP.

Sometimes you just can't plan this stuff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627304 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:52:46 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627220 said by NY Tel:

Good luck.
:D
... Thanks!

I think the current odds are 4 to 1 ... against.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22627220 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:31:53 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22626422 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22626422 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:37:14 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22626130 said by tp0d:

pppoe uses ATM, where DHCP does not. That's not accurate.

If you're on BPON, then you have ATM to the CO, while GPON is gig-E. PPPoE or DHCP are higher level authentication protocols that run over either. I'm on BPON (ATM) with DHCP.

What you get is determined by what was deployed when your CO was built.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22626130 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:54:39 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22626049 said by cbrain:

good luck ... Thanks!

Would anyone offer me a "good luck" when I go to turn on or off a light?
Depends on who wired your house. :D

Comparing a cutting-edge internet service to a lightswitch is like apples to oranges.. not even close to the same.

VZ definitely has some billing/backend system issues, but thats to be expected with any company of this size. I`m sure comcast has their share of hardware and/or billing system issues. (i`m certainly not making excuses here also). But it does make sense that a major change in the routing of your connection may have to happen with a change from pppoe to dhcp, as mentioned before, pppoe uses ATM, where dhcp does not.

i dunno... hope u can get some movement..

again good luck :]

-j
--
if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22626049 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:35:24 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22625884 said by cbrain:

good luck ... Thanks!

Isn't this interesting. We have this marvelous Verizon network and what could be a simple transition. A company capable of building such a network but incapable of executing this simple switch? We offer "good luck" like its a game of chance. Even Verizon expects a problem.

Would anyone offer me a "good luck" when I go to turn on or off a light?

I did try Verizon Direct. They were better than any other Verizon rep, but I am here. I will try the 'elite' support group. Thanks.
Good luck.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22625884 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:57:47 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22625628
Isn't this interesting. We have this marvelous Verizon network and what could be a simple transition. A company capable of building such a network but incapable of executing this simple switch? We offer "good luck" like its a game of chance. Even Verizon expects a problem.

Would anyone offer me a "good luck" when I go to turn on or off a light?

I did try Verizon Direct. They were better than any other Verizon rep, but I am here. I will try the 'elite' support group. Thanks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22625628 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:01:31 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22624140
otherwise, when you call into the FSC, ask for the 'elite' support group. they know their stuff..

i agree with the others, a disconnect/reconnect looks imminent here.

good luck

-j
--
if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22624140 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:31:23 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22621317 said by cbrain:

Any discussion of the relative merits of PPPoE vs DHCP belong in another thread. I'm trying to figure the best way to make my move and it looks like many others want the same thing.
You got your answer in the 2nd reply. All the rest is relative merits.

Hey! A two-fer! :D

Note the use of the smiley. Lighten up a little.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22621317 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:46:17 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22621176 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22621176 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:01:16 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22620632 said by Flizesh:

I'm still on PPPoE and don't mind it so much. Easier to get a new IP if needed this way.
Other than changing your identity, I can't think of a single advantage to getting a new IP. Allowing others to go DHCP won't hurt you. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22620632 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:51:07 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22620611 said by Flizesh:

I'm still on PPPoE and don't mind it so much. Easier to get a new IP if needed this way.
True the bigger difference is that there is extra cpu required by your router. The payload overhead is trivial but there is cpu overhead, though with the routers on the market today it should be trivial...should being key word....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22620611 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:44:23 EDT Re: Anyone sucessfully switched from PPPoE to DHCP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22620510 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Anyone-sucessfully-switched-from-PPPoE-to-DHCP-22620510 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:21:28 EDT