hefe
@rr.com
| reply to ophelus
Re: x264 and Intel 4500MHD
good stuff! happy you finally got it working..
i read this entire thread and noticed that not a single person asked if you had tried using any different software to play the files/discs.
As you found out, you need playback software that WILL take advantage of the gpu decoding features...mediaplayer and quicktime DO NOT.
i suggest powerdvd....but you apparently found something that works as well...or a codec that allows acceleration under mediaplayer...
although i still suggest using powerdvd |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO | reply to ophelus
Yah, it seems to work well but there are occasional glitches.. dunno if that's the codec or the 4500mhd  I'd say a glitch can appear every 10 minutes or so.. or sometimes not.. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| reply to T0rn
DXVA does make a huge difference if your GPU supports it. DXVA is GPU offloading for decoding which most stream based GPU devices are much, much more efficient at than x86 processors are.
--
trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services |
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T0rn
Premium
join:2001-05-11
USA
| reply to ophelus
Whether using CoreAVC or FFDShow, or whatever decoder, there should be an option under h264 (or AVC) settings where you can change the deblocking levels.
Try "skip deblocking when safe" and see if that makes any difference. You can also try "always skip deblocking", which will yield a slightly lower quality image, but should improve the framerate and lessen the likelihood of audio sync issues.
There should also be an option to "drop frames" to prevent audio sync issues. |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO
| reply to ophelus
I'm happy to report that the 4500mhd now successfully tackles just about anything..
My system is still the same but now with the new
K-Lite Codec pack 5_40
I am seeing 20-40% CPU usage across the board for any x264 the thing in that codec pack that seems to make it work is something new called "DXVA" sometype of hardware based encoding for GPU is my understanding.. I tested even my toughest file princess bride and it didn't break a sweat past 40% cpu.. really 20% is average on my dual core 2.0 ghz
In my new testing with my laptop the only thing I found causing me some headaches 80% cpu + where some .mts files from blueray rip's.. and some actually worked in "DXVA" and ran at a base of 20-40% |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO
| reply to ophelus
720p is easy on the 4500mhd.. If I had to guess 25% or less would be right.. 1080p without jutters or lag is a maybe.. I would not expect miracles.. I have a 15 Gb MKV of "the princess bride" that I throw at anything I want to test.. and more than likely even with windows 7 now on my lappy it would still fail..
I upgrade recently my desktop to a phenom II x4 50 and I was shocked to see my cpu with the above movie is like 2% (course I was running vista x64 at the time) now that I'm running windows 7 x64.. it's 33%? Well.. weird.. (too bad I didn't take a screenshot.. I'm guessing windows 7 not optimized properly  ) |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | reply to hakujin
I have since read that the 4500MHD and the X4500HD are two completely different chips, with the 4500MHD being terribly underpowered. That could be why I didn't have problems but the OP did. |
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hakujin
join:2004-02-19
Chicago, IL
| reply to ophelus
update anyone? I'm about to upgrade to an Acer Timeline 4810 with extremely skimpy cpu (Intel ULV 1.3Ghz SU2700) but with Intel GMA 4500MHD. 1080p is def. a bonus, but I wanted to make sure I could get 720p x264 in matroska container playback with DXVA utilizing the Cyberlink h.264 codec in Vista Premium? If it works, even with the skimpy processor I'm anticipating under 25% cpu utilization during playback, based off what I've read. Can anyone concur? |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to Matt
said by Matt  :Although I didn't have Quicktime installed, I just installed and tested it with Transformers Revenge of the Fallen 1080p and my CPU bounced between 25% and 40%, mainly in the low 30% area, while playing it full screen. It was perfectly smooth. WOW the blu-ray is out while it's still in the theaters? |
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tinu
@optonline.net
|  reply to ophelus
I got it working with a pure codec pack with cyberlink (DXVA) as the H.264 decoder & windows media player as the player. I had to manually associate windows media player with .MTS files (1080p) H2.644 files I had. I have windows vita 64 but used the 32 bit codec pack & 32 bit windows media player. I can watch the v1080p video on intel 4500MHD (GM45) with just 25% cpu util now & no pauses & perfect lip synch!!!! Hope this will help all the other intel 4500 MHD owners. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to ophelus
said by ophelus :Yah, I've about given up.. I'm lost likely going to get a new laptop w/ dedicated video.. some of my 1080p's still pause.. but I will certainly given windows7 a try to see if it's better.. Just FYI, but unless they've changed the drivers between build 7100 (the release candidate) and the RTM build, I had a ton of trouble with this card and Windows 7. So much so that I went back to Vista on my HTPC. Intel has officially released Windows 7 drivers that I haven't tried (I'm waiting on native Netflix integration like Vista has), but just a warning that it may not be the holy grail fix. I do think it's worth a shot though. |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO | reply to ophelus
Yah, I've about given up.. I'm lost likely going to get a new laptop w/ dedicated video.. some of my 1080p's still pause.. but I will certainly given windows7 a try to see if it's better.. |
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lafaze
join:2009-07-06
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :The G45 was released in mid-2008. So if Intel was asked to provide the spec in September and there was something working in March, I'd say that's pretty damn good. Especially since nVidia won't open source their drivers at all. The page you linked to details that an Intel engineer himself fixed the problem. No if you read them carefully. 1st post is MPCHC open source people asking for technical details to get the hardware to work in Sep 2008. Also again Nvidia and ATI disclosure has been more open that why open source has gotten h264 to work correctly.
"So my question is : does Intel use a specific protocol for bitstream decoder, and if so is it possible to have the specifications?"
Feb 2009 is when a Intel person finally responded to that request, and March 2009 is when Eric of Intel with the help of the open source MPCHC people got it working. NOTICE: It was Eric of intel doing all the work, while the open source people just provided technical help in regards to open source MPCHC, and not the other way around, again to what I suspect to keep Intel "trade" secrets.
So September, Oct, Nov, Dec 2008, January, February 2009. Several months of idle in 2008, 2009, finally a response in 2009? Not exactly responsive, the same MPCHC people coded ATI and Nvidia h264 hardware stuff for their open source player months ahead of time. If open source people can do Ati and Nvidia that fast and they aren't paid, then why can't Intel be more responsive. In fact if for Eric's generosity and whim, there would be no non commercial 264 acceleration.
Also the fact, that intel person said XP wouldn't be supported, limits the options of people who has issues with Vista. I don't know the technical details, but my daughter XP machine with the nvidia integrated runs h264 acceleration fine and that chip was released earlier than the 4500 mhd so I don't think it a technical. I suspect HDCP rules again.....Intel and Microsoft with HDCP can be scary. And yes, there were people like me trying to get h264 to work right without luck in 2008 and even now because the 4500 mhd h264 is far from perfect.
I have not installed windows 7 RC on the labtop b/c I don't like the hassle of switching or dual booting a computer. But if windows 7 runs h264 acceleration well for the 4500 mhd like some people posting on forums say, then Intel has a real double standard on how they treat their commercial (Microsoft, cyberlink) and open source counterparts in regards technical disclosure. I don't know why you are defending Intel or doubting what I am saying because they you sticking it to you and me. So yes I am frustrated with intel. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to lafaze
The G45 was released in mid-2008. So if Intel was asked to provide the spec in September and there was something working in March, I'd say that's pretty damn good. Especially since nVidia won't open source their drivers at all. The page you linked to details that an Intel engineer himself fixed the problem. |
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lafaze
join:2009-07-06
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :Intel has been VERY good about open sourcing their work. If there's nothing out there for the 4500, the open source community just hasn't written it. I disagree. MCPHC people asking intel for specification to add hardware acceleration in September 2008.
»software.intel.com/en-us/forums/···c/60703/
Eric of intel finally in March 2009, after only starting in September after many months, with MCPHC peoples help, finally enabled vista exclusive non commerical h264 acceleration.
»software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2···h264avc/
Thus, there was no non commerical hardware acceleration support until March 2009 because of Intel lack of disclosure in accordance to HDCP(created by intel itself). On the other hand, intel's commercial partners, privy to technical access, were able to quickly put out hardware acceleration supported software like cyberlink.
So lack of hardware acceleration was not because of lack of effort of the open source community, but because lack of Intel openness with the technical detail for h264 acceleration due to Intel following very stringent HDCP rules. In contrast, open source writers working with ATI and Nvidia, did not have the same coding problem given that ATI and Nvidia were very loose with technical disclosure and HDCP rules.
So why am I taking my time writing this? Having a HDTV in the family room, I chose specifically a labtop with 4500 mhd with "264 hardware acceleration" and hdmi to play hi def. When it didn't work properly b/c of decisions by intel, of course I was disappointed in intel.
It might be their technical and legal right to do whatever they want with their product, but it seems wrong to the consumer that a key feature of a product is not working because of things like HDCP. Also forcing consumer to buy commercial software to enable a advertised feature while they get their act together seems to state that intel priorities are not their consumers but again their commercial partners.. Again their right, but yeah...
I still have very inconsistent h264 acceleration using a combination of MPCHC dxva and cyberlink h264 plug in, despite taking many hours looking at forums to get the dang thing to work. In contrast, my daughter's cheap desktop integrated nvidia 8100 mGPU with just free MPCHC and no commercial software plays h264 material with flying colors avoiding the intel headache I have. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | reply to lafaze
Intel has been VERY good about open sourcing their work. If there's nothing out there for the 4500, the open source community just hasn't written it. |
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lafaze
join:2009-07-06
1 edit | reply to Matt
said by Matt :said by lafaze :Hey Matt, could you tell me about those bios updates for the 4500hd cards. I have a 4500 mhd and I also having trouble with hd playback. Thanks ahead of time The BIOS updates have to come from the motherboard or laptop manufacturer. They are not updates for the card directly unfortunately. Intel has been great about pushing out BIOS updates for my Intel branded board and X4500HD, but it's taken somewhere on the order of 10-15 BIOS updates since the board was released last October or so to get it working as promised. That sucks for me. Sony is pretty bad about updating their drivers even, not alone their bios which is nonexistant. I had to uninstall the Sony custom video driver which they never update just to install Intel site's updated graphics drivers. I been working on it, and I managed to get hardware acceleration in MCPHC using h264 cyberlink external video filter because I have a copy of Power DVD. The problem is it works for some MKV and others not. I hoped that new bios updates would allow all my h264 files to be hardware accelerated.
I just bought the windows 7 preorder partly for the native h264 support and also because vista in general is pissing me off to no end. IF intel wasn't so secretive and stubborn about the releasing the 4500mhd technical detail to open source people (instead of just exclusively their commercial partners like Cyberlink) I wouldn't need to go through this shit because open source would be able to take care of it; like how MCPHC people have been able to create hardware accelerated video decoders for nvidia and ati card users. All well, i hope my experience in windows 7 will be better.
IF someone has a better solution for hardware acceleration for 4500hd or mhd than using the h264 cyberlink filter, please post it. What player you are using? What codec? How did you set it up? It would be much appreciated. I already know about ffshow and core avc and they aren't enough for 1080 p videos sometimes because it still all cpu. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | reply to ophelus
Have you tried the QuickTime Alternative? If you don't have the latest Quicktime, that may be why. You need a specific version so the 4500HD can utilize its hardware decoding engine. |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO
3 edits | reply to Matt
said by Matt :It sounds to me like HP needs to fix your onboard card unfortunately. You’re probably right.. all laptop manufacturers are likely not even paying attention to Intel patching of these poor performance problems.. I may re-try the video with k-lite but there ain't no way I be putting lastest quicktime on.. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to lafaze
said by lafaze :Hey Matt, could you tell me about those bios updates for the 4500hd cards. I have a 4500 mhd and I also having trouble with hd playback. Thanks ahead of time The BIOS updates have to come from the motherboard or laptop manufacturer. They are not updates for the card directly unfortunately. Intel has been great about pushing out BIOS updates for my Intel branded board and X4500HD, but it's taken somewhere on the order of 10-15 BIOS updates since the board was released last October or so to get it working as promised. |
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