Re: When will HD be the standard? in Cable & Satellite TV http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22625351 en Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:42:23 EDT Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:42:23 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22676768 Hayward :
said by BF69 See Profile :

Sorry I don't see anything on there that I don't want. Is there some major channel that is missing? When you say the SD packages have more channels which ones specifically.

MANNY MANY MANY.... again has finally tipped the 50% point but stilll many many, where if I took DISH's Turbo HD I would be missing a lot.

Secondary PBS here is still SD ONLY AND NOT CROPPING IT AS THE HD PBS IS.

Well lets see others....

Documentary Channel
FSTV
RFD-TV (1 show of interest Trains and Locomotives)
NAUS
Not sure how they are handling NASA, HD is available not seen them list it.
TRUE TV, again 1 show a week.
SLUETH
Chiller
Ovation
BBCA I don't think is yet either
IFC might be but don;t think so.
GAME I don't think is, since most programing is SD... love old PASSWORD.


I mean yes unless ALL you asre interested in is the mainstream clap trap crap.

Other than PBS there are like 3 shows a week I watch on broacast networks.

Since it virtually all now NOT Reality cheap to make BS drivil.

And actually the probably better way to ask the question of this thread, is not when everything with be HD, but when will the surcharges and needless duplication end?

Like thing like GAME that deal with virtually total SD programming, there is no rush for them to ever be HD.

But again when will the surcharging for HD end.... just as eventually no one now pays for touch tone dialing anymore.

And with Vonage, Majic Jack, Cable VOIP, all inclusive cell and other competitors very likely the LECS, willl be dropping charges for Call Waithing, Caller ID and all that nonsense too very soon, just as they did long barely a decade ago with touch Tone dialing..
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22676768 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 22:45:53 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22671196 BF69 :
said by Hayward See Profile :

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by wings10 See Profile :

So it seems HD content with the exception of free OTA broadcasts will remain a paid premium service for at least another decade.
Dish Network has a HD only service. It's most expensive package is $50 a month regular price. Plus $5 for locals.

»dishnetwork.com/turbohd/programm···ult.aspx
And that is simply because rapidly getting much better diversity it is still only about half the channels that are HD vs the two top SD packages.
Sorry I don't see anything on there that I don't want. Is there some major channel that is missing? When you say the SD packages have more channels which ones specifically.

Most of those extra channels are either music channels, as in Sirius type channels( who cares ). Or regional sports networks( once again who cares ). These seem to make up nearly 60% of those 200 channels on the $48 America's Top 200 package.

There might be a few channels misisng. Most of which I don't care about. Plus I'm sure they'll get added later. The fact is I shouldn't HAVE to buy a SD package just to be able to get the HD package if that's all I want. And Dish is doing it right( or at least better )]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22671196 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:57:05 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22665124 Hayward :
said by BF69 See Profile :

said by wings10 See Profile :

So it seems HD content with the exception of free OTA broadcasts will remain a paid premium service for at least another decade.
Dish Network has a HD only service. It's most expensive package is $50 a month regular price. Plus $5 for locals.

»dishnetwork.com/turbohd/programm···ult.aspx
And that is simply because rapidly getting much better diversity it is still only about half the channels that are HD vs the two top SD packages.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22665124 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:43:37 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22662065 BF69 :
said by wings10 See Profile :

So it seems HD content with the exception of free OTA broadcasts will remain a paid premium service for at least another decade.
Dish Network has a HD only service. It's most expensive package is $50 a month regular price. Plus $5 for locals.

»dishnetwork.com/turbohd/programm···ult.aspx]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22662065 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:33:43 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22660286 wings10 :
said by tschmidt See Profile :

said by wings10 See Profile :

HD content with the exception of free OTA broadcasts will remain a paid premium service for at least another decade.
It is really more a marketing issue then a technical one. As long as customers are willing to pay extra for HD vendors will charge extra.

/tom
That makes sense.

Thanks
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"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22660286 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:16:20 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645025 tschmidt :
said by wings10 See Profile :

HD content with the exception of free OTA broadcasts will remain a paid premium service for at least another decade.
It is really more a marketing issue then a technical one. As long as customers are willing to pay extra for HD vendors will charge extra.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645025 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:04:28 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645008 wings10 : So it seems HD content with the exception of free OTA broadcasts will remain a paid premium service for at least another decade.
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"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645008 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:01:50 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644965 BF69 :
said by tschmidt See Profile :

said by Greg_Z See Profile :

Doubtful that for some time that you will start to see 1080p as a standard for CATV, but maybe for Satellite.
1080p is not part of the HD broadcast standard because it will not fit into a 20 Mbps data stream. I agree 1080p or even higher is the long term holy grail but it only helps those with very large displays and at present represents unacceptably high bandwidth requirements.

/tom
1080p broadcast would use mostif not all of the entire 6 MHz of a channel. Which is the problem with analog. So that would mean no subchannels.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644965 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:51:44 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644583 tschmidt :
said by Greg_Z See Profile :

Doubtful that for some time that you will start to see 1080p as a standard for CATV, but maybe for Satellite.
1080p is not part of the HD broadcast standard because it will not fit into a 20 Mbps data stream. I agree 1080p or even higher is the long term holy grail but it only helps those with very large displays and at present represents unacceptably high bandwidth requirements.

More background on 1080p:
»www.tvtechnology.com/article/71444

/tom ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644583 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:39:22 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644467 wings10 :
said by Greg_Z See Profile :

It never will.
So even in 100 years people will still watch TV in 480i?

yea ok. :uhh:
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"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644467 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:17:27 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644281 tschmidt :
said by wings10 See Profile :

So they are using the same equipment and then ether up converting or down converting?
Correct, at the studio filming is done in either SD or HD format. It would be too cumbersome and expensive to have two sets of cameras. Assuming show is filmed in HD it is converted to SD.

Broadcast stations are able to simulcast multiple digital programs for free because they can fit both HD and SD program into a single digital OTA channel.

For Cable it is a different issue. They prefer to carry as many different programs as possible, not different versions of the same program. They have a limited amount of bandwidth. Ideally they would like to get rid of analog completely. In fact I think some MSOs have already done that. Some are looking at giving customers of basic cable a cable ready set top box that works much like the OTA converter box. It converts unencrypted QAM to analog SD NTSC. The converter box is cheap and prevents a lot of complaints by basic cable customers. I use OTA so am not really up on Cable industry.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644281 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:41:47 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643722 Greg_Z : It never will. There will always be broadcasts @ 480i/480p/580i 4:3, and there will always be broadcasts @ 720p/1080i 16:9. Doubtful that for some time that you will start to see 1080p as a standard for CATV, but maybe for Satellite.
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I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643722 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:45:41 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643718 Jahntassa :
said by wings10 See Profile :

At some point be it 10, 30, 50 years from now will all transmission be 1080 or even higher and anything lower not exist?
Possibly, once it becomes more cost effective for all of the studios and production facilities to stop repairing old ED equipment and purchase new / used HD equipment.

Believe it or not, some facilities are still using tube-based cameras.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643718 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:45:08 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643700 wings10 : I will phrase it this way.

When will broadcast, cable, Satellite etc stop all transmission in SD, 480i?

At some point be it 10, 30, 50 years from now will all transmission be 1080 or even higher and anything lower not exist?
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"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643700 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:39:07 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643577 Greg_Z : And that is 580i resolution, 4:3.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643577 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:43:05 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643146 Hayward :
said by Greg_Z See Profile :

As for the anon ktus's comment, HD is High Definition, what did you thing that it stood for? As for SD, it stands for Standard Definition, or 4:3 480i/480p/580i.
Well you are a little iverbord there to while technically ED, SD EQIPMENT can do up to 700x525.

Why SD DVD generally look bette rthan broadcast SD, even cabe or not digital channels.... because it is 700 horiz.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643146 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:52:45 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22641855 wings10 : So they are using the same equipment and then ether up converting or down converting?

And using one camera like on the network news?
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"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22641855 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:07:47 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637403 Greg_Z : In order for someone to get the HD feed in 4:3 feed, they would have to have a HD capable box, but hooked up via Component, S-Video, or Composite. If not on a SD only box, they will only get sound. Both SD & HD feeds will be around for a long time, until HD 16:9 becomes the norm. As for the anon ktus's comment, HD is High Definition, what did you thing that it stood for? As for SD, it stands for Standard Definition, or 4:3 480i/480p/580i.
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I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637403 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:49:26 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633106 djdanska : I think they need to give everybody with cable or dish boxes that can get both sd and hd as a standard. Makes upgrading easy. I will use my provider as an example. Take all the rarely watched analog channels and put it digital. My area kinda does that already. take channels like Nick, a&e, fx, all the news channels, and the others that hd's and remove the analog sd feed and replace it with the hd feeds. That way, when i tune in 46 Nick, i get Nick HD and if someone with a sd tv tunes in to 46, they get Nick HD in non-hd resolution. Would help comcast! I looked at my lineup and just about all of the cable stations could be taken off analog and they would have enough space for every one of them to be in HD. (And have room for TONS more!) People with just analog would get 2-22 (in my area) and would require a box if they wanted the rest.

Does that make any sense? If they wanted to be nice about it, they could make the basic channels like Nick or Cartoon network, fx, fox news, msnbc, and the others in unencrypted qam. (But make other pay-hd or higher tier channels require a box). Put them in proper channel numbers too. None of the 90.32 for FX and 105.17 for Mnsbc HD.
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The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633106 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:56:09 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22629587 Hayward : Not as long as cable keeps analog service, each analog station takes the space of up to 6 digital.

Many channels are still SD only, but already it is becoming a majority that are HD. And yes SD digital takes less space it still amounts to dupicated wasted space. And for satellite that is a very finite space, that will be more profitable invested, other services (expanded PPV, Sports and movies, more local markets, etc). Also a big sales point if they do it before cable does.


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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22629587 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:35:57 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22626121 Joe12345678 : SD still takes up less room maybe they can go all HD boxes and drop the SD and HD duplicates and just down res them on to a sd out put.

some cable co say free hd but they hide in higher box rent costs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22626121 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:53:08 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625945 Hayward :
said by pandora See Profile :

SD will be around a long time on cable and satellite. If its dropped at some time in the future, my guess is the price we will pay is the HD price.

I no longer enjoy SD programs that much. Which is sad, there is so much SD legacy.
Big diference between SD being around and if all channels are HD or not.

Sooner or later it will just be two costly for programmers and sat/cable providers to duplicate everthing, as well as all that bandwidth waste.

As soon as they run out of or just low on people that will pay a priumium for HD, SD as distinct channels WILL go away.

Sure SD content still but, just on a side cropped HD channel.

I make the comparison to telephone, who charges extra for touch tone service anymore? It just got to costly to maintain all that old rotary dial equipment. And while most places you can still pulse dial, its such a low number of people, that the equipment circuits necessary to accomodate them is minimal.

As far as analog the Converter boxes convert both SD digital and HD.


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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625945 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:13:43 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625725 anon :
quote:
When will networks drop digital broadcast in favor of HD
HD is digital. if they drop digital then there is no HD or SD.
quote:
the problem with going all HD is the number of people that still use SDTV sets.
Are there any TV sets which cannot receive the digital broadcast and convert the resolution to match the display resolution? In the ATSC spec it is stated (to paraphrase) "All TVs must be able to receive all of these formats and display them." Has this changed?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625725 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:24:31 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625338 BF69 :
said by wings10 See Profile :

When will HD be the standard and not a paid premium? When will networks drop digital broadcast in favor of HD. 20 years? 50 years?

(Note: I know OTA HD is free)
Dish has a HD only service that is about the same price as the SD only service. More should do this. If I have HDTV why would I want to watch channels in SD if I have the HD verison of the channel?

the problem with going all HD is the number of people that still use SDTV sets. Look at all the problem with the OTA transition to digital because so many people still had TVs without digital tuners.

The number of households with at least one HDTV is about 35%. This number should accelerate in the next few years as they get cheaper in price and because no one sells SDTVs anymore. My local wal-mart hasn't sold any in 12-18 months. not to mention just about all new shows are now filmed in HD.

I predict within 6 years at least one company( whether it be sat, cable, fiber ) will go all HD. HDTV penetration should be over 85% by then.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625338 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:56:50 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625351 tschmidt :
said by wings10 See Profile :

Does it costs the networks more to broadcast and carry 2 channels? One SD and one HD?
The short answer is it depends.

If station is broadcasting two different programs then obviously they have the cost of paying royalties on two programs. If they are the same then there is no additional cost.

The reason stations broadcast in both HD and SD format is not about OTA viewer but Sat and Cable. Often Sat and Cable providers have special relationship with broadcast station and get feed directly, not OTA. However in some cases Sat and Cable simply use OTA pickup. Since Cable will convert digital to analog standard definition broadcasting in SD give the station total control over image quality.

I assume over time you will see simulcasting in HD and SD decline.

A station is able to broadcast more programs in SD then HD. So if many programs is more important then video quality they will broadcast multiple SD channels.

Over the air station have 19 Mbps to play with. Precisely how they "spend" it is a business decision, HD or many SD.

/tom

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625351 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:55:44 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625325 Jahntassa : It costs more to shoot programming and rebroadcast in HD. It also costs cable companies and distributors money to rebroadcast those signals.

Since many networks and studios sold off their SD equipment to try and make back some money from their HD investments, I don't think HD is going to be completely mainstream until most of the SD gear dies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625325 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:48:54 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625194 wings10 : Does it costs the networks more to broadcast and carry 2 channels? One SD and one HD?
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"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625194 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:15:11 EDT Re: When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625127 pandora : SD will be around a long time on cable and satellite. If its dropped at some time in the future, my guess is the price we will pay is the HD price.

I no longer enjoy SD programs that much. Which is sad, there is so much SD legacy.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625127 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:56:56 EDT When will HD be the standard? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625095 wings10 : When will HD, (Anything lower then 1080) be the standard and not a paid premium? When will networks drop digital/480/SD broadcast in favor of HD/1080. 20 years? 50 years?

(Note: I know OTA HD is free)
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"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22625095 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:48:54 EDT