vue666
join:2007-12-07
| reply to WaitForGodot
Re: Billy Bishop - Canadian WWI Ace Pilot
When I was doing some research for this image I was surprised about all the controversy over Bill Bishop's air records... I don't think there is anything substantial just surprised about all the controversy and speculation over a famous Canadian hero like Bishop... |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
 ·Bell Sympatico
| said by vue666  :When I was doing some research for this image I was surprised about all the controversy over Bill Bishop's air records... I don't think there is anything substantial just surprised about all the controversy and speculation over a famous Canadian hero like Bishop... Absolutely. That's because no pictures exist and we are dependent upon human memory, which is faulty.
A few nits.
1) The angle of the upper wind is off. It should be parallel to the lower wing and not at an angle.
2) (and this will drive the scale modellers nuts; I know. I am one) the proportion of the roundels is way off. The red is way too large and the blue is way too small.
3) the lower wing dihedral is good, but the lower wing tips look warped.
4) smoke damage on the victim aircraft doesn't show speed. It looks like it's standing on it's nose, not dropping like a stone.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
vue666
join:2007-12-07
1 edit | Thanks DKS... I used to build alot of model kits when I was younger especially 1/24 & 1/25 scale cars and some 1/72 scale planes.... I really miss opening a new AMT, Revell or Mongram model kit, removing parts from the plastic tree, the smell of Testors & Humble model paint & LePage model glue....
Of course Mom didn't like me cluttering up the kitchen table... but she was tolerant... LOL..
In the near future I'd like to do one of Roy Brown...
Cheers
V666 |
|
vue666
join:2007-12-07
1 edit | I was just notified this image made Corel Paint Shop Pro's image of the week....
»www.officialpspp.com/pics_picsofweek.php |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to vue666
said by vue666 :Thanks DKS... I used to build alot of model kits when I was younger especially 1/24 & 1/25 scale cars and some 1/72 scale planes.... I really miss opening a new AMT, Revell or Mongram model kit, removing parts from the plastic tree, the smell of Testors & Humble model paint & LePage model glue.... Of course Mom didn't like me cluttering up the kitchen table... but she was tolerant... LOL.. In the near future I'd like to do one of Roy Brown... Cheers V666 I agree. Nothing like the smaell of fresh solvent to clean the sinuses. 
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
WaitForGodot
join:2009-01-07 | reply to vue666
Congrats vue666. |
|
vue666
join:2007-12-07
| reply to DKS
said by DKS :said by vue666 :Thanks DKS... I used to build alot of model kits when I was younger especially 1/24 & 1/25 scale cars and some 1/72 scale planes.... I really miss opening a new AMT, Revell or Mongram model kit, removing parts from the plastic tree, the smell of Testors & Humble model paint & LePage model glue.... Of course Mom didn't like me cluttering up the kitchen table... but she was tolerant... LOL.. In the near future I'd like to do one of Roy Brown... Cheers V666 I agree. Nothing like the smaell of fresh solvent to clean the sinuses. Now I'm lazy and I collect the 1/18th diecasts... I have a scale auto collection that is almost as large as Leno's real collection.... |
|
vue666
join:2007-12-07
1 edit | DKS - does this roundell look better?
Thanks kindly for your assistance... I really appreciate it...
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Flying_Corps |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs: | Much better. |
|
Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| said by DKS :Much better. Actually, for WW1, the diameter of the red should be about half of what's in that image. |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by Snickerdo :said by DKS :Much better. Actually, for WW1, the diameter of the red should be about half of what's in that image. Depends. There wasn't a lot of standardization. Best to copy a picture from that time. Here the lower roundels have a large center. And the nose is solid blue.
»www.pbase.com/beagleair/image/35883719
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
vue666
join:2007-12-07 | And kindly correct me if I'm wrong... the US roundel was red on the outer circle and blue on the inner...
Thanks kindly... |
|
Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| said by vue666 :And kindly correct me if I'm wrong... the US roundel was red on the outer circle and blue on the inner... That's the French roundel. The Americans used to use a blue circle with a white star and a red dot inside the star for WW1, and then the same blue circle with a white star and the side arms like they do today from WW2 onward.
--
I swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by Snickerdo :said by vue666 :And kindly correct me if I'm wrong... the US roundel was red on the outer circle and blue on the inner... That's the French roundel. The Americans used to use a blue circle with a white star and a red dot inside the star for WW1, and then the same blue circle with a white star and the side arms like they do today from WW2 onward. Not exactly. The RAF-style roundel was used until the end of WW1. A good summary can be found here
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
1 edit | said by DKS :Not exactly. The RAF-style roundel was used until the end of WW1. A good summary can be found here The Americans always used a variation of the RAF roundel with the white star instead of a white circle. What I didn't know is that they continued to use that even during the early (at least for them) parts of WW2, and didn't switch to the modern roundel by dropping the red dot until the Battle of Midway. They didn't add the "arms" to it until after that. Thanks for the link!
Edit - also, the French roundel predates the British roundel, with the British roundel specifically designed to be similar to the French roundel. Most RAF aircraft today actually use a two-colour sky blue/pink low-visibility roundel and not the three-colour roundel that they are most associated with:
--
I swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by Snickerdo : Most RAF aircraft today actually use a two-colour sky blue/pink low-visibility roundel and not the three-colour roundel that they are most associated with: Again, "it depends". The mission of the a/c dictates the roundel style. Offensive, transport and defensive a/c use that style of roundel. Training, test and specialized a/c such as the Royal Flight use the three colour roundel.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| said by DKS :Again, "it depends". The mission of the a/c dictates the roundel style. Offensive, transport and defensive a/c use that style of roundel. Training, test and specialized a/c such as the Royal Flight use the three colour roundel. Right. Thing is, you're more likely to see the two-colour roundel I posted on an RAF aircraft than the traditional three-colour roundel. The roundel I posted is a "low visibility" roundel that is used on anything that's painted combat grey - fighters, bombers, lift craft, etc. There is a "camo" version of that roundel used on craft painted green camouflage (e.g. choppers) that is the same, but the sky blue and pink are instead the traditional dark blue and red, no white. The traditional three colour roundel is typically used on non-combat craft such as transports and the like where visibility isn't an issue, regardless of the colour of the craft. There's also a version of the roundel that's to be used on bombers that are painted white, it's the same as the traditional roundel w/white, but sky blue and pink like the low-vis.
Canada also has a low-vis version of the roundel, but ours is just a grey version of our normal roundel. This is the version you'll find on all our offensive, defensive and airlift craft. The Americans and Australians do the same thing with their low-vis. The UK can't do grey for low-vis because it would end up being confused with many other countries that use the same pattern for their roundel but with different colours.
--
I swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| Low-viz red/white/blue.
Don't get me started on Canadian roundels. I have books on them (RCAF/RCN/Army/CAF) ad nauseum
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
vue666
join:2007-12-07
| Know of any good web references on roundels?
If you know of any I would greatly appreciate it...
I'd like to do something on Roy Brown next so I'm searching for some references on him as well.... But suspect I'll be busy with car show photos and photography in general once the weather breaks in Nova Scotia... So I suspect I'll try a hand a doing a digital painting of Brown in the fall (or earlier depending on weather).... |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
3 edits | said by vue666 :Know of any good web references on roundels? Always work from a picture, if possible. For colours, FS595a/595b is the standard.
»www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorchart···arts.asp
And by the way, here is a discussion of one colour, Olive Drab.
And here is an excellent 1/72 scale model of Bishop's Nieuport. The author contends (and has references) that Bishop's aircraft was never painted with C5 on the fuselage.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
