TooHotToday
@sbcglobal.net
|  3 year old house will not stay cool
Our house has never felt like it has really stayed cool. This year we found out that the unit in the attic didnt match the unit outside. We found the original contractor and he came out and replaced the unit upstairs. I believe they are both now r410 systems.
Yesterday it was 110 outside and 83 inside. We have the AC set to stay at 75. I know that 83 isnt that much higher, but it feels really hot inside!
I don't know if it would be better to set the system to a lower temp like 70 and then maybe it will get to 75?
The house is 1800 s/f, 3 bd 2 bath with a living room, dining room and kitchen that are all open to each other.
The unit outside is a r410A puron system by Carrier.
Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks so much! | |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool You could set the thermostat to 50 and it wouldn't make a difference. If it can't keep up, it cant' keep up. Since it's only three years old, it sounds like a call to the original installer is in order.
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TheMG
join:2007-09-04
Edmonton, AB
 ·TELUS
1 edit | said by TooHotToday :
Yesterday it was 110 outside and 83 inside. We have the AC set to stay at 75. I know that 83 isnt that much higher, but it feels really hot inside!
I don't know if it would be better to set the system to a lower temp like 70 and then maybe it will get to 75?
No it won't. If the system can't get the temperature lower than 83, setting the thermostat any lower will do absolutely nothing.
There's a few possibilities here:
1- system could be undersized for the house
2- house could be poorly insulated, or attic space may need better ventilation
3- something still wrong with the system | |
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shezams
My Other Car Is A Zamboni
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Hyattsville, MD
 ·Comcast
1 edit | If it was really 110 outside, and you could maintain 83 inside it may be a case of the unit doing all it was designed to do. Where I live the cooling design temp is around 72 at 97 degrees outside. You do not want to oversize an AC or else it will not run long enough to dehumidify most days. 25 degrees or so is about all you usually get between indoor and outdoor temp for home comfort cooling. For those with a technical bent »www.proctoreng.com/articles/bigger.html will explain a little of the how to size an AC. The short of it is you don't size for the worst case scenario.
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avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by Sly  :Please do not do this. Spraying the condenser does work... but as the sprayed on water evaporates, it leaves behind calcium and mineral deposits on the coils. ... Repeat... do NOT simply spray water onto the condenser. And don't let rain get on it either!!!!
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| | | rcabor
join:2007-04-17
Grand Prairie, TX | Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool actually due to the nature of evaporation, rainwater is relativly soft compared to tap or well water. | |
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avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ
2 edits | Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by rcabor :actually due to the nature of evaporation, rainwater is relativly soft compared to tap or well water. what does evaporation have to do with the mineral content of the water?
not all tap water is well water.
You should see the crap that is left on my car after a rain.
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SteveCon
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Burlington, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by avd706 :said by rcabor :actually due to the nature of evaporation, rainwater is relativly soft compared to tap or well water. what does evaporation have to do with the mineral content of the water? Minerals are left on surfaces when water is evaporated - hence the term "mineral deposits". Minerals can not evaporate
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avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ
1 edit | Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by SteveCon :said by avd706 :said by rcabor :actually due to the nature of evaporation, rainwater is relativly soft compared to tap or well water. what does evaporation have to do with the mineral content of the water? Minerals are left on surfaces when water is evaporated - hence the term "mineral deposits". Minerals can not evaporate Exactly, so it is due to the nature of the mineral content of the waters source, nothing to do with the "nature of evaporation".
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Lurch77
Stop looking at me.
Premium
join:2001-11-22
+44.88-87.89
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by avd706 :Exactly, so it is due to the nature of the mineral content of the waters source, nothing to do with the "nature of evaporation". You seem to know it pretty well. Tell you what, go run a sprinkler on your condensing unit for the rest of the summer, and maybe next summer too, and tell us how it works out. Unless you have soft water, set some money aside for a new condenser. Natural rain and domestic water are two different animals. And rain does not continuously coat the coil either.
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| | | | Tyreman
join:2002-10-08
3 edits | Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool Whats the layout of the house back split, open concept 2 story etc?
high ceilings?
High heat gain area windows southern exposure no drapes, more sun on etc?
ductwork is good?
If its a 2 ton and it looks like the sticker nomenclature indicates that...sized okay?
also install a thermometer in the supply air duct above the coil and in the return if the temperature is between 15-20 degrees difference then thats not bad.
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| | aeblank
join:2004-09-07
Cadillac, MI
| said by Sly :If you want to cool the condenser, then look for a unit called a desuperheater. This is a heat exchanger which hooks up to the condenser side and circulates cold water through it and then runs it to a water heater tank for pre-heat water. A desuperheater cools down the condenser which makes the heat pump run more efficiently and it uses that heat to heat your home's water... making your water heater more efficient as well. I run a boiler with a heat storage tank (insulated 1600 gallon tank) for my heating and domestic water. 1600 gallons is quite a few BTUs, and my goal, someday, would be to put in central air and instead of dumping the heat to the air, have it dump into my tank. It might well generate enough energy to satisfy my hot water needs. I could see having a loop that goes through my tank, then through the ground, then to the condenser. I get heat, the condenser sees 50 degree ground temperature.
Regardless, can you point me in the direction of a desuperheater for residential-type applications? I'm finding patent claims and industrial-type units. | |
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join:2004-09-07
Cadillac, MI
| From what I can see, it's really just a heat exchanger, a circulator, and some controls. The controls maintain a hot water temp in the useful range (120+) by varying the flow through the exchanger.
A perfect system would be a heat pump (that dumps its heat into the ground--therefore very efficent) but with a desuperheater inline before the ground loop to create some hot water for free (less purchase price and electricity).
I've never understood dumping the heat into the air. The air is 100 and the ground is 50. Not to mention fan noise. | |
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join:2004-09-07
Cadillac, MI
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by Sly :Yea, me neither. What you described is a ground source heat pump with a desuperheater option. They do exist but are very expensive to install... I have access to a back hoe, I can run the ground loops. I plumbed my entire furnace setup, so I can tie in the desuperheater. I just need to find a kickass hvac guy to work with me on this. That's all. =) | |
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burner50
Pinlifter
Premium,VIP
join:2002-06-05
EN22wm
·Mediacom
·FrontierNet Intern..
| said by Sly :Please do not do this. Spraying the condenser does work... but as the sprayed on water evaporates, it leaves behind calcium and mineral deposits on the coils. These build up on the condenser and act as an insulator which severely reduces the unit's efficiency. Then as the condenser can't remove enough heat, the head pressure rises in the compressor which makes it run hotter. Then your compressor fails... If you want to cool the condenser, then look for a unit called a desuperheater. This is a heat exchanger which hooks up to the condenser side and circulates cold water through it and then runs it to a water heater tank for pre-heat water. A desuperheater cools down the condenser which makes the heat pump run more efficiently and it uses that heat to heat your home's water... making your water heater more efficient as well. Repeat... do NOT simply spray water onto the condenser. possible to use distilled or rinse with distilled water...
I used to do this in the radiator of a racecar to cool it down faster for work in the pits. Spray whatever water I could find out of a pressurized cylinder, then rinse with distilled in a garden sprayer.
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marti
Color outside the lines
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-14
Houston, TX
clubs:
| As said above, the unit will only cool maybe 20 degrees lower than the outside temperature. That seems to be the case here in Houston, Texas. Do get the unit checked out, but if it's OK, keep the window coverings closed, don't turn on lights unless you have to, don't turn on the oven, and don't do laundry if your machines are in the house (mine are in the garage), run the dishwasher late at night, turn on ceiling fans, get floor or table top fans, and try to stay inside and don't go in and out of the house.
I was in and out of the door between the garage and the house today, as I was doing some house cleaning and some supplies were in the garage. My thermostat was set to 77 and it got up to 81 in the house. I know it was close if not at, 100 degrees out there.
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bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN | Call somebody out to check it. Might need a cleaning or changing the filter or something simple. | |
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CatSnak
RIP Splashy - We miss you
Premium
join:2001-05-06
Lakeside, CA | The first thing I would do is chaeck the filter and change if needed then have a profesional clean the condenser and check the system for proper operation. | |
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shezams
My Other Car Is A Zamboni
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Hyattsville, MD
·Comcast
| You don't say, but 110 degrees means you are probably in the desert SW. Sizing for some parts of Arizona looks like they try for 75 degrees at 105 outdoor - so your AC is likely working as it was designed. You can give it a little help by closing sun ward drapes, and minimizing indoor heat loads by turning off heat generating appliances you don't need. Fans will offer additional comfort too. You can call the AC guy, if he can come anytime soon he will be happy to show up and collect a service fee and check over the system, but if the unit has gotten regular service lately you probably shouldn't bother. AC units are not sized for worst case scenarios if they are sized properly. They are sized for more average scenarios.
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Simple rules - no offsides, no intent to maim, everything else is all good! | |
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nursemike
join:2001-10-14
Palm Bay, FL
| I purchased an older (1980) home. I changed the filter every three months, but was unhappy with the air flow and the cooling ability. I removed a small plate to gain access to the A coil. Someone, in times past, had run the unit with NO filter. The A coil was covered with junk. I had to use a toilet brush, and got rid of most of the offending junk. The unit worked MUCH better! | |
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haroldo
join:2004-01-16
united state
·Comcast
| Do you have an attic ventilator? Is it set properly or working?
Is this a modern ventilation system (where the air comes from the ceiling or high up on the wall) or is it an older system (using the existing heat vents near the floor, which is very inefficient)? | |
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joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by haroldo :Do you have an attic ventilator? Is it set properly or working? This is important. The attic will act as a greehouse, and your entire second floor is fighting it. When 100 outside go into the attic with a thermometer. I bet it's well over 110. You have 100 degree air you can use to cool that down, attic fan is cheap, and easy. Run it before sunrise as well, it will help keep the house cooler a few hours after sun up. The savings on the AC will pay to run the attic fan. | |
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IcePirate123
join:2003-01-12
Columbus, OH
| First we need more information. Start with registering. Then we need your city/state of residence. This will tell us the weather in the area. But on the easy side of life, if your house is only 3 years old, why even ask. Call the warranty department on the house, not the contractor. He will jump much quicker if it goes through the people that pay him money to put in the systems than if you just call. It will also leave a paper trail with the warranty people on the problem you are having in case he does not fix it correctly. | |
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void_of_light
@parker.com
| I was visiting my cousin this weekend and he had the same problem. We traced it down to a non insulated skylight in the upstairs. For a temporary fix I cut a sheet of foil backed foam insulation and put it in the skylight. The next day the upstairs was at least 10 degrees cooler and the rest of the house was noticeably cooler. His Ac unit actually cycles and doesn't run all day like before. His whole house was built with single pane windows and minimum insulation. | |
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SmackWeasel
join:2008-01-02
| You have to realize your 83 degree reading is the temperature at the thermostat location. That one area does not reflect the ambient temperature in the entire house. Why not try setting it at 70 or even 65?
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| rcabor
join:2007-04-17
Grand Prairie, TX
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by SmackWeasel :You have to realize your 83 degree reading is the temperature at the thermostat location. That one area does not reflect the ambient temperature in the entire house. Why not try setting it at 70 or even 65? As stated earlier in the thread, setting it lower does nothing. When the unit is on its already working as hard as it can. Setting your oven to 400 when you want 350 doesnt make it heat faster either. But to help the OP, a portable or window unit might be worth the investment for those days the unit wont keep up. | |
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SmackWeasel
join:2008-01-02
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by rcabor :said by SmackWeasel :You have to realize your 83 degree reading is the temperature at the thermostat location. That one area does not reflect the ambient temperature in the entire house. Why not try setting it at 70 or even 65? As stated earlier in the thread, setting it lower does nothing. When the unit is on its already working as hard as it can. Setting your oven to 400 when you want 350 doesnt make it heat faster either. But to help the OP, a portable or window unit might be worth the investment for those days the unit wont keep up. Not to quibble, but the OP stated; "I don't know if it would be better to set the system to a lower temp like 70 and then maybe it will get to 75?"
So I assumed they haven't yet set the thermostat lower than 75.
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Unimon
@l-3com.com
| said by rcabor :said by SmackWeasel :You have to realize your 83 degree reading is the temperature at the thermostat location. That one area does not reflect the ambient temperature in the entire house. Why not try setting it at 70 or even 65? As stated earlier in the thread, setting it lower does nothing. When the unit is on its already working as hard as it can. Setting your oven to 400 when you want 350 doesnt make it heat faster either. But to help the OP, a portable or window unit might be worth the investment for those days the unit wont keep up. Setting the thermostat lower can make a difference in a multistage system. Granted, this one probably is not.
Also, I think the OP was talking about letting the system get a "head start" from the night when cooling is easier. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Check your attic insulation.. if you're in a area that gets that warm you should have at least a foot of insulation in the attic.. Where I live it's suggested 18 inches.
Is the air leaving the registers cold?
While the unit is running the air coming out of the outside unit should be much hotter than the surrounding air as well.
If both of those are no, call a technician to look at it.
Check your filter as well.
You have a 3 ton unit which is about the right size for the square footage, assuming it's properly insulated it should have been fine.
I had this problem, 1900sqft and a 2.5 ton unit poor insulation. We fixed the insulation problem, replaced the 13 year old system with a 3.5 ton system and it was discovered that the return air was only sized for 2 tons, so they added more returns so the system was not starved for air.
Now I can get it to whatever temp I want.. 90 degree day, tech was out and set it to 65 to do the seasonal check, it was almost 65 when he was done.. had to open the door for a bit to get some warm air in 
Only way you're going to fix this is having professionals look into it.
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IcePirate123
join:2003-01-12
Columbus, OH
| Ok, I will bite. There is a lot of snake oil / bad advice / incorrect information coming out in this thread already. To correct some of it..... You have a carrier 24aba series condenser. This is a 2 ton unit. It is undersized for 1800 square feet. The only way to tell if this is critical is to know what zone aka. state/city you live in. Also if the 1800 sq feet you are quoting includes non-serviced areas such as garages. So far you have been told to do everything from spray the exterior coil, told not to as this will harm your coil (how do you think we clean them when we service them), to digging around in your attic. Again. Call the warranty department on the house. Its 3 years old. They will contact the original installer and make him fix any problems. If you have the problem several times they will get a new contractor to service it and report to them what is going on. Without being at the house, aka, if you called me and asked what should you do when I am at work I would set up an appointment so I could come out and test the system and see what the problem was. You cant fix air conditioner cooling issues of this type over the internet. There are to many variables. | |
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TooHotToday
@sbcglobal.net
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by IcePirate123 :Ok, I will bite. There is a lot of snake oil / bad advice / incorrect information coming out in this thread already. To correct some of it..... You have a carrier 24aba series condenser. This is a 2 ton unit. It is undersized for 1800 square feet. The only way to tell if this is critical is to know what zone aka. state/city you live in. Also if the 1800 sq feet you are quoting includes non-serviced areas such as garages. So far you have been told to do everything from spray the exterior coil, told not to as this will harm your coil (how do you think we clean them when we service them), to digging around in your attic. Again. Call the warranty department on the house. Its 3 years old. They will contact the original installer and make him fix any problems. If you have the problem several times they will get a new contractor to service it and report to them what is going on. Without being at the house, aka, if you called me and asked what should you do when I am at work I would set up an appointment so I could come out and test the system and see what the problem was. You cant fix air conditioner cooling issues of this type over the internet. There are to many variables. Hello, & Thanks for the responce.
1st - I live in No. Cal. 2nd - The 1800 s/f is just the livable area that is being cooled, no garages or anything.
3rd - I am confused about the warranty advice. I do not pay for a warranty. Is that what you mean, or do you mean through the builder? I originally contacted the builder and they were the ones who told me to call the installer. They seem to not want to have anything to do with the house anymore (built as investors and then sold to us). Although, what I hear is that they are still responsible for the work on the house for (7 years?). Lastly, the original installer was not licenced to work on his own and did the job as a side job...so, the builder is the one ultimately responsible right?
Thanks again! | |
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join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by Sly : If you continuously soak the condenser with water while it's hot, evaporating the water and leaving the minerals behind, then you will get a scale buildup on the coils which will reduce heat transfer and increase head pressure. Do not soak the condenser fins, rather use fine mist to cool the air sucked in from outside. The mist evaporates before it contacts the fins. That way there are no significant deposits on the fins, especially if demineralized water is used. | |
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p0lyplanar
join:2006-04-11 | How about misting distilled water on the coils for short-term goals? | |
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nokiatech
join:2000-10-18
Stuart, FL
·Comcast
| All of these ideas are certainly interesting but nobody has given OP a way to check the basic function of his system. If the air handler is accessible to you find yourself an indoor/outdoor thermometer with a probe. Put the "indoor" unit right in front of the air intake and put the outdoor probe on the cold air side of the evaporator coil. Obviously disconnect the power before you do this and take care to ensure the probe can't be sucked into the blower while running. With the system running you should see about a 20 degree drop in temperature between the two. If you have this drop then your unit is working properly and cooling as well as it ever will. If you don't then you need the unit serviced.
Next thing would be to check the air temp coming from your ducts. You should ideally only see a few degree difference between the cold evaporator air and the air exiting the ducts. If you only see a few degrees difference then your unit and associated ducting are probably both in good shape and your problem is the heat load of your home. If there is a large drop you either have a leaking duct in the attic or very poor insulation around them.
If you can't access the air handler then simply compare the intake air temperature with that coming out of your ducts. Anything better then about an 18 degree difference is probably pretty good. | |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA | If you like it cooler, setting it lower WILL help - but not today. It will help tomorrow, because it will kick in sooner and begin removing heat earlier in the day.
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| LeeWL
join:2002-11-10
Morrisville, NC
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool said by djrobx :If you like it cooler, setting it lower WILL help - but not today. It will help tomorrow, because it will kick in sooner and begin removing heat earlier in the day. If the system is not capable of cooling the house, it is not capable. Maybe starting to cool the house down really early gets cool air in there and keeps the hottest temperature inside down to 80 due to stored cool air, but it is still too small of a unit for a house that large.
to the OP, the reason the tech is saying to call teh builder is because they have sold you a house that was designed improperly. IMO, it is their responsibility to fix that.
I would also check with neighbors to see if they have similar issues and similar sized units. | |
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