3 year old house will not stay cool in Home Repair & Improvement http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22630804 en Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:21:05 EDT Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:21:05 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22740781 joepa : Sounds exactly like my house here in Allen, TX. I really think my problem is a combination of issues. It is poor ventilation in the attic (soffit vents blocked by insulation, not enough of them) and some insulation problems with all the knee walls in my attic.

I am calling them knee walls but they are really the parts of the walls that stick up above the rest of the attic floor. My bedrooms and gameroom have higher ceilings than the foyer and hallway. These higher ceiling extend further into the attic. They are insulated but not that well.

I would double check that you have good ventilation in the attic before going for the radiant barrier. By the way there was a great article in the Dallas Morning News a few months back on radiant barriers.

»www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent···bd0.html

Joe]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22740781 Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:07:06 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22716849 anon : I'm not sure what the R rating is. I have a lot of windows facing west on the front of the house. I had them tinted, which helped some. I believe that insulating more and radiant barrier would help. The only other alternative is to put an auxiliary unit in to run only when we have these super hot days. I don't want to over size my central unit and cause moisture problems.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22716849 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:25:00 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22714569 nocannothave : In the summer we routinely reach 100+ with very low humidity. On these days, I set the thermostat to 66 at about 10am. It reaches this temp (and will sometimes shut off for a bit) and steadily climbs as the day wears on. By the time outside is 102, inside is now at 72 or 73.

The A/C unit runs pretty much from 8 am until about 1 am on the hottest days. At this point, I don't even care.

1800 sf
vaulted main room facing north with windows on the west - 13'6" height
8 ft ceilings in the rest of the house
Blown in insulation in above the ceiling. Not sure how deep.

My office is always a couple degrees warmer (2 computers), and that annoys me. I'd like to make the office cooler, but it's ok most days.

Try a cooler setting (than you would prefer) on the thermostat earlier in the day. The idea is to get a jump on the heat. It works for me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22714569 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:12:36 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22713724 scooper : Radiant barrier isn't a bad idea - what's your ceiling R factor ? It should be at least R35 - and R50 wouldn't be out of line.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22713724 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:47:14 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22713271 anon : I live in North Dallas and have the same problem. AC is fine until the outside temp gets above 95 deg. I keep the thermostat set on 76 and that is where it stays until about 3PM on a 100+ day then it will climb to 79 or 80 and stay there until around 9PM than it starts falling back to 76. I have had the AC unit checked and serviced and was assured that it was sized properly for my square footage. I am considering adding more insulation and having a radiant barrier installed on the underside of my roof. Some summers we have 40-50 days of 100+ temperatures and although 80 feels pretty good when it is over a hundred outside, I still want my system to keep the temperature where I set it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22713271 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:35:06 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645803 cowboyro : 2.5 or even 3 ton is undersized for such a big house. I had a CA system installed last year, calculations done by me with the help of various websites and the ones done by few contractors yielded 4.5ton for my 2300sqft colonial. I figure that the OP has a ranch style house, therefore more roof surface - and more heat coming in. I have a 2.5 ton unit servicing the 1400sqft of the lower level and a 2 ton unit servicing the 900sqft of the upper level...
Edit: the system handled cooling very well last year, was able to keep up with heating up to 25F during winter while maintaining 70F inside.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645803 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:36:24 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645468 aeblank :
said by Sly See Profile :

Yea, me neither. What you described is a ground source heat pump with a desuperheater option. They do exist but are very expensive to install...
I have access to a back hoe, I can run the ground loops. I plumbed my entire furnace setup, so I can tie in the desuperheater. I just need to find a kickass hvac guy to work with me on this. That's all. =)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645468 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:25:32 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645067 joetaxpayer : I've been following this, and understand there are potential multiple issues involved. Have you checked Attic temp? If attic is not well insulated from second floor ceiling, and circulation is bad, you can have a temp 20 degrees hotter than outside. Still a builder issue, but not the HVAC guy. And a different path to address (insulation and vent fan VS the AC system). This doesn't take much effort to check.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645067 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:10:32 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22642913 Sly : Yea, me neither. What you described is a ground source heat pump with a desuperheater option. They do exist but are very expensive to install...
--
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
- Plato -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22642913 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:12:34 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22641225 aeblank :
said by Sly See Profile :

»www.doucetteindustries.com/produ···_res.htm
From what I can see, it's really just a heat exchanger, a circulator, and some controls. The controls maintain a hot water temp in the useful range (120+) by varying the flow through the exchanger.

A perfect system would be a heat pump (that dumps its heat into the ground--therefore very efficent) but with a desuperheater inline before the ground loop to create some hot water for free (less purchase price and electricity).

I've never understood dumping the heat into the air. The air is 100 and the ground is 50. Not to mention fan noise.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22641225 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:02:11 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22641042 scooper :
said by linicx See Profile :

Might be hunky dory in NC, but a heat pump is not worth much when it is 40 below in Chicago.
Works fine as an Air Conditioner, not so well as HEAT SOURCE below about 20F. That's why they have the auxilary heat strips or you put in a furnace. But your whole initial comment was that they don't work as air conditioners - which I am roundly refuting.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22641042 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:30:01 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22640945 linicx : Might be hunky dory in NC, but a heat pump is not worth much when it is 40 below in Chicago.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22640945 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:09:35 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22640289 anon : Hi,
Sorry to hear about your problem.
There are two things that you need to check. First, what is the temperature coming out of the air vents or diffusers? If the outside temperature is 100 F, then the air coming out of the vents should still be at least 65-70 F. My a/c, at 90 F outside temperature, blows about 55 F air from the air vents.
Second thing you need to check is that the blower motor is operating at high speed. How much air is coming out of the air vents? The motor wiring could be set wrong and you do not get enough cold air to various rooms in the house. Also, the motor bearings could be bad causing the motor speed to drop. The cooling coil could be blocked by dust or maybe it is icing up preventing proper air circulation. So, those two main things you need to investigate: is the air out of the vents cold enough and are there enough air flow out of the vents.
Once you get your a/c fixed, I highly recommend that you purchase an anemometer that measures air speed, air flow, temperature, etc. You use this device to take measurements at air vents throughout the house as reference values. Then if you ever have any further problems with your a/c, you can eliminate many possibilities before calling a technician. These units can be purchased cheaply from ebay starting at $25 and up. This is much cheaper than having a service person to come in and notice something simple as dirty filters and charging you $100 for a visit. Good luck.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22640289 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:05:05 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22639648 rob_in_chatt : according to google, this is a 3 ton AC unit with a 70000 btu heat pump.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22639648 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:04:23 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22638043 IcePirate123 : Quite simply, when the original installer comes out, kick it up a notch. Tell him that you believe there is a problem with your air conditioner and it has been there since day one. Tell him that if the air conditioner will not maintain the house at 70 degrees regardless of outside temperature you are going to call a seperate air conditioning company for an inspection of the unit and bid to properly repair. You will then submit this bid to the original builder of the house and if they do not wish to pay it your lawyer. If you have to actually get a bid and send to the original builder and they decide to try to fight you, tell them you are going to call the local permit department and have your house inspected. If as I suspect this house was built on the minimum amount of permits and lowest bidders, it will be much cheaper for them to repair or even replace your whole air conditioning system than have any other projects STOPPED by the permit dept for a inspection compaint.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22638043 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:06:08 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637962 anon : Hi...OP here again!

Sorry I am not much of a help because I am very new to this whole thing and do not know much of the technicalities.

1st- the house is a one story with high ceilings, no skylights and all windows are covered with wooden blinds. I don't think there are any venttilation systems in the attic.

2nd- Unit has not been working properly until now, Didnt work the first summer we lived here and this summer we had a tech out and he told us that the unit in the attic was mismatched to the unit outside. This is when we contacted the builder and then the installer and they installed a new unit in the attic to match the one outside. Works ok when it isnt very hot, but when temps get to 100+ it really struggles.

3rd- I set the AC to 75 today and it held that temp until about 3pm, then it slowly got up to 82 degrees.

4th- Original installer is coming out again this week to take a look, but he says that a 20 degree difference is acceptable...I know some other people on here also said that, but, that makes no sense to me. That is telling me the best you can expect in 100 degree weather is 80??? I know a lot of people keep between 72-75 around here.

If more info is needed, let me know and I will repost.

Thanks again for everyones help! It is much appreciated!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637962 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:24:24 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637908 RR Conductor : I see some advice about dehumidifiers, humidity really isn't a problem in NorCal during the heat of the day. Here where I live in NorCal (inland Mendocino County, Northwestern CA) the humidity gets in the 20-30% range during the day, but goes back up to around 70-80% at night with the cooling, onshore (we're 28 miles from the coast here in Redwood Valley) flow in the evening. So here at least, hot=low humidity, cool=high humidiity.

Edit-Here, the inside of the house can get very dry, humdifiers are a good thing to have to help put more moisture in the house. I've been in the south and east, you guys can have that sauna stuff, no offense ;) :D
--
You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637908 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:46:20 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637887 burner50 :
said by Sly See Profile :

Please do not do this. Spraying the condenser does work... but as the sprayed on water evaporates, it leaves behind calcium and mineral deposits on the coils. These build up on the condenser and act as an insulator which severely reduces the unit's efficiency. Then as the condenser can't remove enough heat, the head pressure rises in the compressor which makes it run hotter. Then your compressor fails...

If you want to cool the condenser, then look for a unit called a desuperheater. This is a heat exchanger which hooks up to the condenser side and circulates cold water through it and then runs it to a water heater tank for pre-heat water. A desuperheater cools down the condenser which makes the heat pump run more efficiently and it uses that heat to heat your home's water... making your water heater more efficient as well.

Repeat... do NOT simply spray water onto the condenser.
possible to use distilled or rinse with distilled water...

I used to do this in the radiator of a racecar to cool it down faster for work in the pits. Spray whatever water I could find out of a pressurized cylinder, then rinse with distilled in a garden sprayer.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637887 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:39:02 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637872 KrK : Why is the first I've heard of these.... These clearly are a great way to make homes more energy efficient---- they hit the two biggest energy expenses in a home--- A/C and Hot water generation (well, not counting winter heating I guess.)

Real boon in the summer.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637872 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:28:13 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637836 Sly :
said by KrK See Profile :

That Turbotec Envior-Pak unit looks like quite the ticket!

Talk about win/win.... saves on air conditioning costs AND hot water expense. Wow... It's only a matter of time before this market takes off.
Found another desuperheater...

»www.doucetteindustries.com/produ···_res.htm]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637836 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:08:46 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637809 KrK : That Turbotec Envior-Pak unit looks like quite the ticket!

Talk about win/win.... saves on air conditioning costs AND hot water expense. Wow... It's only a matter of time before this market takes off.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637809 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:00:37 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637794 public :
said by Sly See Profile :

If you continuously soak the condenser with water while it's hot, evaporating the water and leaving the minerals behind, then you will get a scale buildup on the coils which will reduce heat transfer and increase head pressure.
Do not soak the condenser fins, rather use fine mist to cool the air sucked in from outside. The mist evaporates before it contacts the fins. That way there are no significant deposits on the fins, especially if demineralized water is used.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637794 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:56:59 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637732 Sly :
said by aeblank See Profile :

Regardless, can you point me in the direction of a desuperheater for residential-type applications? I'm finding patent claims and industrial-type units.
Actually I've been looking for them myself. There aren't many residential manufacturers of them for regular heat pumps. Most desuperheaters are found on geo-thermal heat pumps as an add on option.

Here are two that I found for regular air units... Don't know the prices though as their websites don't give any pricing information:

»www.turbotecproducts.com/EPsolutions.html
»www.trevormartin.com/ecu.asp
--
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
- Plato -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637732 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:29:09 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637697 Sly :
said by IcePirate123 See Profile :

So far you have been told to do everything from spray the exterior coil, told not to as this will harm your coil (how do you think we clean them when we service them)...
Please don't take what I said out of context. I never said don't ever spray the coil... I clean mine once a year with water also. However, spraying the condenser continuously is not the same thing as spraying it once every year for 5 minutes with the unit off.

What I was saying is not to spray the coil continuously while it is running. If you continuously soak the condenser with water while it's hot, evaporating the water and leaving the minerals behind, then you will get a scale buildup on the coils which will reduce heat transfer and increase head pressure. If someone wants to cool the coil to improve efficiency then they should use a desuperheat unit, not a mister.
--
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
- Plato -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637697 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:16:21 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637525 scooper : I don't know where you get off saying heatpumps don't work well as air conditioners - they most certainly DO ! All that a heatpump does is an air conditioner with a reverse mode for heating. As stated before - they usually have heat strips in the airhandler for auxilary heat, but you can use them with gas furnaces as well (I should know, since that is how MY house HVAC is setup).

If you think Heat pumps don't work as air conditioners - come to North Carolina sometime.... in May-September.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637525 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:21:46 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637428 Lurch77 :
said by linicx See Profile :


The heat pump adds water to to cool dry air, whereas an air conditioner removes water to cool humid air. .
Arer you confusing a heat pump with a swamp cooler?
--
Selfish, adj. Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637428 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:54:40 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637251 cahiatt :
said by linicx See Profile :

... it sounds like you have heat pump unit. It does not cool well above 80+ nor heat well below 20+. These units were developed for use in the desert southwest. They are supplemented with Air conditioner in the summer ...

The heat pump adds water to to cool dry air, whereas an air conditioner removes water to cool humid air. .

????? A heat pump IS an air conditioner. In short, they just use a reversing valve for heating mode. A/C in reverse. In heating mode, indoor coil is now the condensor, outdoor coil turns into evaporator. It probably has electric heat strips to supplement very cold temps or rapid heat requirements.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637251 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:10:18 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637116 IcePirate123 : I stand corrected. The unit is a 3 ton unit which is sized for the square footage of the house. I mistakenly crossed the wrong column earlier when i posted. As to the warranty, when you bought the house and you signed the paperwork didnt they give a warranty on the house? I am not sure what the local laws are in your state regarding new builds so I cant be much help there. Long story short, before you go spending time and money on other ideas, get a certified tech out there to look at the unit. This should not cost you very much, and will tell you what your problem is. If it is just a problem of the unit being low on charge, overcharged, or dirty they will have you working that day. If there is a deeper problem or major code violations they can give you a bid on the repair so you have something to take to the original builder and say fix. If the original installer was not certified for the work and they knew that when they hired him, they are responsible for any problems his work causes. Long story short CALL A LOCAL TECH! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637116 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:39:15 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637101 linicx : r401A puron is a Carrier trademarked brand coolant. IF you have a unit that has a high energy rating it takes longer to cool or heat.

At the risk of sticking my neck out, it sounds like you have heat pump unit. It does not cool well above 80+ nor heat well below 20+. These units were developed for use in the desert southwest. They are supplemented with Air conditioner in the summer and a furnace or fireplace in the winter.

The heat pump adds water to to cool dry air, whereas an air conditioner removes water to cool humid air. .

The other possible cause is the roof is not properly vented. Since I corrected the problem I got rid of the hot spots. The house now cools uniformly. Then I installed a new furnace and air conditioner because I am in a hot humid area and it was 30 years old. My utility bills have decreased more than I expected. .

I love the open floor plan. I've had several houses with those floor plans. They all had the same problem: even heating and cooling.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637101 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:35:45 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637007 Vinch : That's definitely a 3-ton unit.

Detailed product data can be found over here...

»www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/gr···-2pd.pdf]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22637007 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:14:07 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22636401 Lurch77 :
said by avd706 See Profile :

Exactly, so it is due to the nature of the mineral content of the waters source, nothing to do with the "nature of evaporation".
You seem to know it pretty well. Tell you what, go run a sprinkler on your condensing unit for the rest of the summer, and maybe next summer too, and tell us how it works out. Unless you have soft water, set some money aside for a new condenser. Natural rain and domestic water are two different animals. And rain does not continuously coat the coil either.
--
Selfish, adj. Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22636401 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:01:17 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22636292 nunya :
I am confused about the warranty advice. I do not pay for a warranty. Is that what you mean, or do you mean through the builder? I originally contacted the builder and they were the ones who told me to call the installer. They seem to not want to have anything to do with the house anymore (built as investors and then sold to us). Although, what I hear is that they are still responsible for the work on the house for (7 years?). Lastly, the original installer was not licenced to work on his own and did the job as a side job...so, the builder is the one ultimately responsible right?


Most A/C systems come with a 5 year warranty. Since your installer was not qualified to do the installation - it's a moot point. You're S.O.L.. No manufacturer in their right mind will honor that warranty.

So, here is the point. If you have a 3 year old system that's worked fine up until now, there's probably something wrong with your system that will require professional intervention. On an A/C, there isn't much the average DIY'er can do except routine maintenance (cleaning, filters, etc...). More advanced types might be able to change a contactor or fan if the system were not running (not your case).

Don't throw good money after bad with "snake oil" advice. Get it fixed right.

P.S., I'm not a professional A/C guy, but I think that is really a 3 ton unit. Someone said it is 2. You need to have your service company look into that while they are there.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22636292 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:36:30 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22636140 Dennis :
said by nokiatech See Profile :

All of these ideas are certainly interesting but nobody has given OP a way to check the basic function of his system.
Assuming he's telling the truth and the pictures match....i don't think the system will be able beat 110 degree weather. Honestly at this point talking about warrenty is a waste of time in my opinion.

Then again the OP hasn't really come back with anything about skylights, window coverings, etc....
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22636140 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:03:04 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635982 Tyreman : Whats the layout of the house back split, open concept 2 story etc?
high ceilings?
High heat gain area windows southern exposure no drapes, more sun on etc?
ductwork is good?
If its a 2 ton and it looks like the sticker nomenclature indicates that...sized okay?

also install a thermometer in the supply air duct above the coil and in the return if the temperature is between 15-20 degrees difference then thats not bad.
--
Southern Ontario,Canada]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635982 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:29:54 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635793 LeeWL :
said by djrobx See Profile :

If you like it cooler, setting it lower WILL help - but not today. It will help tomorrow, because it will kick in sooner and begin removing heat earlier in the day.
If the system is not capable of cooling the house, it is not capable. Maybe starting to cool the house down really early gets cool air in there and keeps the hottest temperature inside down to 80 due to stored cool air, but it is still too small of a unit for a house that large.

to the OP, the reason the tech is saying to call teh builder is because they have sold you a house that was designed improperly. IMO, it is their responsibility to fix that.

I would also check with neighbors to see if they have similar issues and similar sized units.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635793 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:49:30 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635557 djrobx : If you like it cooler, setting it lower WILL help - but not today. It will help tomorrow, because it will kick in sooner and begin removing heat earlier in the day.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635557 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:07:24 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635528 nokiatech : All of these ideas are certainly interesting but nobody has given OP a way to check the basic function of his system. If the air handler is accessible to you find yourself an indoor/outdoor thermometer with a probe. Put the "indoor" unit right in front of the air intake and put the outdoor probe on the cold air side of the evaporator coil. Obviously disconnect the power before you do this and take care to ensure the probe can't be sucked into the blower while running. With the system running you should see about a 20 degree drop in temperature between the two. If you have this drop then your unit is working properly and cooling as well as it ever will. If you don't then you need the unit serviced.

Next thing would be to check the air temp coming from your ducts. You should ideally only see a few degree difference between the cold evaporator air and the air exiting the ducts. If you only see a few degrees difference then your unit and associated ducting are probably both in good shape and your problem is the heat load of your home. If there is a large drop you either have a leaking duct in the attic or very poor insulation around them.

If you can't access the air handler then simply compare the intake air temperature with that coming out of your ducts. Anything better then about an 18 degree difference is probably pretty good.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635528 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:03:45 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635370 Dennis : Really you should just look into having a UV film or tinting put onto any windows/skylights to reduce the amount of heat that gets inside. Playing catch up will never work as well as you want it to.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635370 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:29:19 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635308 anon :
said by IcePirate123 See Profile :

Ok, I will bite. There is a lot of snake oil / bad advice / incorrect information coming out in this thread already. To correct some of it..... You have a carrier 24aba series condenser. This is a 2 ton unit. It is undersized for 1800 square feet. The only way to tell if this is critical is to know what zone aka. state/city you live in. Also if the 1800 sq feet you are quoting includes non-serviced areas such as garages. So far you have been told to do everything from spray the exterior coil, told not to as this will harm your coil (how do you think we clean them when we service them), to digging around in your attic. Again. Call the warranty department on the house. Its 3 years old. They will contact the original installer and make him fix any problems. If you have the problem several times they will get a new contractor to service it and report to them what is going on. Without being at the house, aka, if you called me and asked what should you do when I am at work I would set up an appointment so I could come out and test the system and see what the problem was. You cant fix air conditioner cooling issues of this type over the internet. There are to many variables.
Hello, & Thanks for the responce.

1st - I live in No. Cal. 2nd - The 1800 s/f is just the livable area that is being cooled, no garages or anything.
3rd - I am confused about the warranty advice. I do not pay for a warranty. Is that what you mean, or do you mean through the builder? I originally contacted the builder and they were the ones who told me to call the installer. They seem to not want to have anything to do with the house anymore (built as investors and then sold to us). Although, what I hear is that they are still responsible for the work on the house for (7 years?). Lastly, the original installer was not licenced to work on his own and did the job as a side job...so, the builder is the one ultimately responsible right?

Thanks again!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635308 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:26:18 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635285 p0lyplanar : How about misting distilled water on the coils for short-term goals?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635285 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:14:23 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635132 IcePirate123 : Ok, I will bite. There is a lot of snake oil / bad advice / incorrect information coming out in this thread already. To correct some of it..... You have a carrier 24aba series condenser. This is a 2 ton unit. It is undersized for 1800 square feet. The only way to tell if this is critical is to know what zone aka. state/city you live in. Also if the 1800 sq feet you are quoting includes non-serviced areas such as garages. So far you have been told to do everything from spray the exterior coil, told not to as this will harm your coil (how do you think we clean them when we service them), to digging around in your attic. Again. Call the warranty department on the house. Its 3 years old. They will contact the original installer and make him fix any problems. If you have the problem several times they will get a new contractor to service it and report to them what is going on. Without being at the house, aka, if you called me and asked what should you do when I am at work I would set up an appointment so I could come out and test the system and see what the problem was. You cant fix air conditioner cooling issues of this type over the internet. There are to many variables.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22635132 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:49:50 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634947 avd706 :
said by SteveCon See Profile :

said by avd706 See Profile :

said by rcabor See Profile :

actually due to the nature of evaporation, rainwater is relativly soft compared to tap or well water.
what does evaporation have to do with the mineral content of the water?

Minerals are left on surfaces when water is evaporated - hence the term "mineral deposits". Minerals can not evaporate
Exactly, so it is due to the nature of the mineral content of the waters source, nothing to do with the "nature of evaporation".
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Team JON.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634947 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:16:14 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634795 SteveCon :
said by avd706 See Profile :

said by rcabor See Profile :

actually due to the nature of evaporation, rainwater is relativly soft compared to tap or well water.
what does evaporation have to do with the mineral content of the water?

Minerals are left on surfaces when water is evaporated - hence the term "mineral deposits". Minerals can not evaporate
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UNIONS: The anti-theft device for working people.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634795 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:50:23 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634785 avd706 :
said by rcabor See Profile :

actually due to the nature of evaporation, rainwater is relativly soft compared to tap or well water.
what does evaporation have to do with the mineral content of the water?

not all tap water is well water.

You should see the crap that is left on my car after a rain.
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Team JON.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634785 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:48:06 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634739 aeblank :
said by Sly See Profile :

If you want to cool the condenser, then look for a unit called a desuperheater. This is a heat exchanger which hooks up to the condenser side and circulates cold water through it and then runs it to a water heater tank for pre-heat water. A desuperheater cools down the condenser which makes the heat pump run more efficiently and it uses that heat to heat your home's water... making your water heater more efficient as well.
I run a boiler with a heat storage tank (insulated 1600 gallon tank) for my heating and domestic water. 1600 gallons is quite a few BTUs, and my goal, someday, would be to put in central air and instead of dumping the heat to the air, have it dump into my tank. It might well generate enough energy to satisfy my hot water needs. I could see having a loop that goes through my tank, then through the ground, then to the condenser. I get heat, the condenser sees 50 degree ground temperature.

Regardless, can you point me in the direction of a desuperheater for residential-type applications? I'm finding patent claims and industrial-type units.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634739 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:39:07 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634444 anon :
said by rcabor See Profile :

said by SmackWeasel See Profile :

You have to realize your 83 degree reading is the temperature at the thermostat location. That one area does not reflect the ambient temperature in the entire house. Why not try setting it at 70 or even 65?
As stated earlier in the thread, setting it lower does nothing. When the unit is on its already working as hard as it can. Setting your oven to 400 when you want 350 doesnt make it heat faster either. But to help the OP, a portable or window unit might be worth the investment for those days the unit wont keep up.
Setting the thermostat lower can make a difference in a multistage system. Granted, this one probably is not.

Also, I think the OP was talking about letting the system get a "head start" from the night when cooling is easier.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634444 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:00:17 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634236 SmackWeasel :
said by rcabor See Profile :

said by SmackWeasel See Profile :

You have to realize your 83 degree reading is the temperature at the thermostat location. That one area does not reflect the ambient temperature in the entire house. Why not try setting it at 70 or even 65?
As stated earlier in the thread, setting it lower does nothing. When the unit is on its already working as hard as it can. Setting your oven to 400 when you want 350 doesnt make it heat faster either. But to help the OP, a portable or window unit might be worth the investment for those days the unit wont keep up.
Not to quibble, but the OP stated; "I don't know if it would be better to set the system to a lower temp like 70 and then maybe it will get to 75?"
So I assumed they haven't yet set the thermostat lower than 75.
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0111000001100101011000010110001101100101]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634236 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:23:30 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634211 joetaxpayer :
said by haroldo See Profile :

Do you have an attic ventilator? Is it set properly or working?
This is important. The attic will act as a greehouse, and your entire second floor is fighting it. When 100 outside go into the attic with a thermometer. I bet it's well over 110. You have 100 degree air you can use to cool that down, attic fan is cheap, and easy. Run it before sunrise as well, it will help keep the house cooler a few hours after sun up. The savings on the AC will pay to run the attic fan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634211 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:20:43 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634031 NOCMan : Check your attic insulation.. if you're in a area that gets that warm you should have at least a foot of insulation in the attic.. Where I live it's suggested 18 inches.

Is the air leaving the registers cold?

While the unit is running the air coming out of the outside unit should be much hotter than the surrounding air as well.

If both of those are no, call a technician to look at it.

Check your filter as well.

You have a 3 ton unit which is about the right size for the square footage, assuming it's properly insulated it should have been fine.

I had this problem, 1900sqft and a 2.5 ton unit poor insulation. We fixed the insulation problem, replaced the 13 year old system with a 3.5 ton system and it was discovered that the return air was only sized for 2 tons, so they added more returns so the system was not starved for air.

Now I can get it to whatever temp I want.. 90 degree day, tech was out and set it to 65 to do the seasonal check, it was almost 65 when he was done.. had to open the door for a bit to get some warm air in :)

Only way you're going to fix this is having professionals look into it.
--
Play a Death Knight?
www.theebonhold.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22634031 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:56:13 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633989 Sly :
said by avd706 See Profile :

said by Sly See Profile :

Please do not do this. Spraying the condenser does work... but as the sprayed on water evaporates, it leaves behind calcium and mineral deposits on the coils. ...
Repeat... do NOT simply spray water onto the condenser.
And don't let rain get on it either!!!!
As was already said, rainwater is much softer than most tap water. Also, with the cover on, most of the rain water does not get to the condenser anyway. But directly spraying it with a water hose can and will damage it. Misting is not a long term solution to increasing efficiency. It would be better to install a thermal barrier, install properly sized gable vents and a ridge vent to carry the heat out the top of the attic. Insulate the house well, especially the attic and keep curtains closed on sun facing windows.

If you want to mist your condenser... then go ahead. There have been many snake-oil ideas like this come along in the years and they all have one thing in common... People not wanting to take the time to do something right but instead wanting to take the short cut. :uhh:
--
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
- Plato -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633989 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:51:52 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633696 rcabor : actually due to the nature of evaporation, rainwater is relativly soft compared to tap or well water.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633696 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:15:03 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633667 rcabor :
said by SmackWeasel See Profile :

You have to realize your 83 degree reading is the temperature at the thermostat location. That one area does not reflect the ambient temperature in the entire house. Why not try setting it at 70 or even 65?
As stated earlier in the thread, setting it lower does nothing. When the unit is on its already working as hard as it can. Setting your oven to 400 when you want 350 doesnt make it heat faster either. But to help the OP, a portable or window unit might be worth the investment for those days the unit wont keep up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633667 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:11:19 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633287 SmackWeasel : You have to realize your 83 degree reading is the temperature at the thermostat location. That one area does not reflect the ambient temperature in the entire house. Why not try setting it at 70 or even 65?
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0111000001100101011000010110001101100101]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633287 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:23:39 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633050 avd706 :
said by Sly See Profile :

Please do not do this. Spraying the condenser does work... but as the sprayed on water evaporates, it leaves behind calcium and mineral deposits on the coils. ...
Repeat... do NOT simply spray water onto the condenser.
And don't let rain get on it either!!!!
--
Team JON.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633050 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:45:07 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633007 anon : I was visiting my cousin this weekend and he had the same problem. We traced it down to a non insulated skylight in the upstairs. For a temporary fix I cut a sheet of foil backed foam insulation and put it in the skylight. The next day the upstairs was at least 10 degrees cooler and the rest of the house was noticeably cooler. His Ac unit actually cycles and doesn't run all day like before. His whole house was built with single pane windows and minimum insulation. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22633007 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:41:32 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632875 IcePirate123 : First we need more information. Start with registering. Then we need your city/state of residence. This will tell us the weather in the area. But on the easy side of life, if your house is only 3 years old, why even ask. Call the warranty department on the house, not the contractor. He will jump much quicker if it goes through the people that pay him money to put in the systems than if you just call. It will also leave a paper trail with the warranty people on the problem you are having in case he does not fix it correctly.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632875 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:08:15 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632500 haroldo : Do you have an attic ventilator? Is it set properly or working?
Is this a modern ventilation system (where the air comes from the ceiling or high up on the wall) or is it an older system (using the existing heat vents near the floor, which is very inefficient)?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632500 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:42:34 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632448 nursemike : I purchased an older (1980) home. I changed the filter every three months, but was unhappy with the air flow and the cooling ability. I removed a small plate to gain access to the A coil. Someone, in times past, had run the unit with NO filter. The A coil was covered with junk. I had to use a toilet brush, and got rid of most of the offending junk. The unit worked MUCH better!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632448 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:45:11 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632434 shezams : You don't say, but 110 degrees means you are probably in the desert SW. Sizing for some parts of Arizona looks like they try for 75 degrees at 105 outdoor - so your AC is likely working as it was designed. You can give it a little help by closing sun ward drapes, and minimizing indoor heat loads by turning off heat generating appliances you don't need. Fans will offer additional comfort too. You can call the AC guy, if he can come anytime soon he will be happy to show up and collect a service fee and check over the system, but if the unit has gotten regular service lately you probably shouldn't bother. AC units are not sized for worst case scenarios if they are sized properly. They are sized for more average scenarios.
--
Simple rules - no offsides, no intent to maim, everything else is all good!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632434 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:30:57 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632367 cork1958 : Running a dehumidifier will help the comfort level out quite a bit more and make it easier on the air conditioning unit too.

Maybe the blower in your furnace is the thing that is undersized also.

I just had my central air unit changed a couple years ago and a new furnace put in last year. New furnace is what REALLY made the difference.\

Sounds like our houses are about exactly the same size also. Mine is 1800 sq. ft with a bath and a half and 4 bedrooms.
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632367 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:35:46 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632253 CatSnak : The first thing I would do is chaeck the filter and change if needed then have a profesional clean the condenser and check the system for proper operation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632253 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:08:25 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632160 bryanviper : Call somebody out to check it. Might need a cleaning or changing the filter or something simple.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632160 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:13:55 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632159 Mannus : Take this Central Air energy quiz/tutorial and see if that might help you find some answers or least get you going in the right direction.

»www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fus···howIntro]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632159 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:13:34 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632103 marti : As said above, the unit will only cool maybe 20 degrees lower than the outside temperature. That seems to be the case here in Houston, Texas. Do get the unit checked out, but if it's OK, keep the window coverings closed, don't turn on lights unless you have to, don't turn on the oven, and don't do laundry if your machines are in the house (mine are in the garage), run the dishwasher late at night, turn on ceiling fans, get floor or table top fans, and try to stay inside and don't go in and out of the house.

I was in and out of the door between the garage and the house today, as I was doing some house cleaning and some supplies were in the garage. My thermostat was set to 77 and it got up to 81 in the house. I know it was close if not at, 100 degrees out there.
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Team Discovery]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632103 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:47:32 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632026 Sly : Please do not do this. Spraying the condenser does work... but as the sprayed on water evaporates, it leaves behind calcium and mineral deposits on the coils. These build up on the condenser and act as an insulator which severely reduces the unit's efficiency. Then as the condenser can't remove enough heat, the head pressure rises in the compressor which makes it run hotter. Then your compressor fails...

If you want to cool the condenser, then look for a unit called a desuperheater. This is a heat exchanger which hooks up to the condenser side and circulates cold water through it and then runs it to a water heater tank for pre-heat water. A desuperheater cools down the condenser which makes the heat pump run more efficiently and it uses that heat to heat your home's water... making your water heater more efficient as well.

Repeat... do NOT simply spray water onto the condenser.
--
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
- Plato -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22632026 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:15:13 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22631616 FenglerF1 : Not a long term fix by any means but spraying down the radiator with a garden hose provided some temporary relief during Florida summers.
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Team Discovery, Kiva.org - loans that change lives
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22631616 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:07:28 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22631509 shezams : If it was really 110 outside, and you could maintain 83 inside it may be a case of the unit doing all it was designed to do. Where I live the cooling design temp is around 72 at 97 degrees outside. You do not want to oversize an AC or else it will not run long enough to dehumidify most days. 25 degrees or so is about all you usually get between indoor and outdoor temp for home comfort cooling. For those with a technical bent »www.proctoreng.com/articles/bigger.html will explain a little of the how to size an AC. The short of it is you don't size for the worst case scenario.
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Simple rules - no offsides, no intent to maim, everything else is all good!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22631509 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:44:20 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22630934 TheMG :
said by TooHotToday :

Yesterday it was 110 outside and 83 inside. We have the AC set to stay at 75. I know that 83 isnt that much higher, but it feels really hot inside!

I don't know if it would be better to set the system to a lower temp like 70 and then maybe it will get to 75?
No it won't. If the system can't get the temperature lower than 83, setting the thermostat any lower will do absolutely nothing.

There's a few possibilities here:

1- system could be undersized for the house

2- house could be poorly insulated, or attic space may need better ventilation

3- something still wrong with the system]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22630934 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:52:34 EDT Re: 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22630926 nunya : You could set the thermostat to 50 and it wouldn't make a difference. If it can't keep up, it cant' keep up. Since it's only three years old, it sounds like a call to the original installer is in order.
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Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22630926 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:51:17 EDT 3 year old house will not stay cool http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22630804 anon : Hi! I have a 3 year old house and C/A unit.

Our house has never felt like it has really stayed cool. This year we found out that the unit in the attic didnt match the unit outside. We found the original contractor and he came out and replaced the unit upstairs. I believe they are both now r410 systems.

Yesterday it was 110 outside and 83 inside. We have the AC set to stay at 75. I know that 83 isnt that much higher, but it feels really hot inside!

I don't know if it would be better to set the system to a lower temp like 70 and then maybe it will get to 75?

The house is 1800 s/f, 3 bd 2 bath with a living room, dining room and kitchen that are all open to each other.

The unit outside is a r410A puron system by Carrier.

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks so much!
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22630804 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:30:24 EDT