The Flash
You don't win friends with salad
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join:2002-10-17
Toronto, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
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| reply to shaner
Re: [Hockey] Official UFA trade thread
said by shaner  :Make that 2 first rounders and a 2nd. I suppose you have to give up something to get something. I just have this real bad feeling the Bruins sold high, and last year may be the best we'll see out of him. Yes 2 1st round picks but Kessel IS a 1st round 5th overall pick, essentially we're just giving up a 1st rounder. I doubt the Leafs will be in the same position as last year picking top 10. |
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idlewillkill
Go Blue
Premium
join:2005-09-28
North York, ON | reply to dirtyjeffer
And right now I'm so mad over this trade I could piss glue. |
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shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB | Why? |
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alamarco
o.O
join:2003-06-18
Windsor, ON
clubs:
| reply to The Flash
Sure, this makes sense.
Option 1: 1st, 2nd, 3rd in 2010 to put in an offer sheet for Kessel
Option 2: 1st, 2nd in 2010, 1st in 2011 to trade for the RFA rights to Kessel
So we go with option 2, instead of having an extra 1st round pick. Makes no sense except for the fact that Burke went on a tirade when Lowe plucked Penner from the Ducks. So it seems to me Burke didn't want to put out an offer sheet so he could save face.
The Leafs had the upper hand. They tell Boston to give them a good deal or they'll do an offer sheet. There's no reason why they should of settled for worse than what they would of lost if Kessel had signed for the Leafs on the offer sheet and Boston didn't match.
Given the situation, the price is too high. |
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dirtyjeffer
Merry Christmas
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
| said by alamarco :Given the situation, the price is too high. meh...they basically paid a first and second round pick for him (as Kessel himself was a first rounder)...given the fact he is a proven goal scorer, and still young enough to keep him for several years, and the fact he WANTS to play in Toronto, it isn't that bad...i think he is exactly the kind of player Toronto needs - young, quick and skilled...bye bye Jason Allison (i know, he is a center and not a winger).
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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Clipper
join:2002-05-23
Stoney Creek, ON
| reply to alamarco
said by alamarco :The Leafs had the upper hand. They tell Boston to give them a good deal or they'll do an offer sheet. There's no reason why they should of settled for worse than what they would of lost if Kessel had signed for the Leafs on the offer sheet and Boston didn't match. Both parties had strong positions.
Boston would have matched the offer sheet and dealt with the cap issue by November. Chiarelli said as much.
Burke wanted to make sure he had him. That's why he offered more than the offer sheet was worth.
I think had Chiarelli not agreed to a trade, Burke would have gone the offer sheet route and hoped for the best. |
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tyler00
Premium
join:2001-06-27
Pickering, ON
| reply to dirtyjeffer
You MIGHT get a good pick in the first round next year and the year after but you already have a 21 year old PROVEN PICK WITH THIS TRADE.
Are Leaf fans going to be happy if they still really need a first rounder in 2011? That will be FOR the 2011-2012 season and that pick probably won't even play that season...
Kessel only missed the 2005 draft cutoff because of when his birthday is and would have been drafted up top with Crosby and Ryan.
Instead he goes 5th in 2006 only behind Erik Johnson, Jordan Staal, Jonathan Toews and Nicklas Backstrom.
If you think about it it's actually an amazing trade to reach back to the first few picks of 1 of the 2 deeper drafts we've had in the past 10 years and stealing it for a few future draft picks that might not matter as much especially if the Leafs have 15th pick or so in the next draft anyway. |
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alamarco
o.O
join:2003-06-18
Windsor, ON
clubs:
| reply to Clipper
Boston wouldn't of matched it. That wouldn't make much sense at all because they were haggling with Kessel in the first place. They didn't want to give him as much as the Leafs did. Kessel has been an RFA for a long ass time, if Boston were prepared to match a high offer, they would of offered him that money in the first place. That's why contract talks broke off and Kessel was no longer speaking with Boston. |
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shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB | Yeah, but you also have to remember Boston is hard up against the cap, so there was no way they were going to be able to sign Kessel anyways. |
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Clipper
join:2002-05-23
Stoney Creek, ON
| reply to alamarco
said by alamarco : if Boston were prepared to match a high offer, they would of offered him that money in the first place. That's why contract talks broke off and Kessel was no longer speaking with Boston. Boston couldn't haggle that high because they were up against the cap.
If there hand was pressed with an offer sheet, they would have, then made trades later to fix it. Chiarelli said as much.
Boston wanted Kessel to leave on their terms for what they wanted.
Burke wanted to be 100% sure he got Kessel that's why he went the trade route.
Consider the following:
Boston didn't want to trade within the division. So, Boston looks to trade elsewhere. The only problem is, there isn't a single team out there with interest in Kessel who's going agree to a deal without it being contigent on a multi-year deal with Kessel.
Kessel wanted to go to Toronto. So, being an RFA, he has the right to choose what teams he negotiates with. If Chiarelli and team B agree on a deal that hinges on Kessel signing a deal with team B, that deal has little chance of happening since Kessel wanted to go to Toronto.
Now, Assume Burke and Kessel sign an offer sheet for 4.5 over 5 years. That opens doors for Boston. Boston can now go to all the teams interested in Kessel and say to them, I can get Kessel signed and delivered at 4.5 over 5 then flip him to you for whatever package you want. Sign and trade.
An offer sheet would have given Boston the upperhand that Burke wanted to avoid.
Burke would have lost out on the asset he wanted, and in the process helped Chiarelli out of his cap & asset jam.
There's a reason Burke is a NHL GM and you aren't. |
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dirtyjeffer
Merry Christmas
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| i think Burke wanted to play somewhat fairly with Chiarelli...even during the interview after last nights game, he praised Chiarelli for driving a hard bargain (not that he would say he got him for nothing, but, you know what i mean, it's a respect thing)...at the end of the day, he got what he wanted, and while the price was perhaps a little steep, sometimes you have to pay for what you want...Burke figures the amount of freebies he was able to sign without having you use picks or players on, it was worth it, and for that, i agree.
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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alamarco
o.O
join:2003-06-18
Windsor, ON
clubs:
| reply to Clipper
According to NHLSCAP teams can exceed the cap by 10% only until the last day of training camp. Once the last day hits they can then only exceed if they have a long term injury.
I'm not sure if Boston has any long term injuries, but if Burke wanted to avoid Boston doing a sign and trade, he could of waited a couple more weeks and then sign Kessel to an offer sheet. Boston would not be able match since they would be going over the cap and that would violate the CBA.
What you said is true, but there's way around that scenario. Burke just wanted to play nice instead of keeping that extra pick. |
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Clipper
join:2002-05-23
Stoney Creek, ON
| said by alamarco :I'm not sure if Boston has any long term injuries, but if Burke wanted to avoid Boston doing a sign and trade, he could of waited a couple more weeks and then sign Kessel to an offer sheet. Boston would not be able match since they would be going over the cap and that would violate the CBA. Kessel is a long term injury. His salary wasn't going to affect the cap until November. Chiarelli would have until then to deal with the cap problem. And once he had the player under contract through the RFA match, it gives him more options. |
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dirtyjeffer
Merry Christmas
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to alamarco
said by alamarco :Burke just wanted to play nice instead of keeping that extra pick. possibly, however, it is possible that other teams may have come forward with some great offers and Burke might not have been able to land him...as well, Burke wouldn't have looked very good if he pulled a "Kevin Lowe". 
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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dirtyjeffer
Merry Christmas
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to dirtyjeffer
DGB has a funny article on the trade (they sure don't waste any time). 
»www.downgoesbrown.com/2009/09/ph···ade.html
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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alamarco
o.O
join:2003-06-18
Windsor, ON
clubs:
| reply to Clipper
Do you have any information on signing players who are injured? I'm not sure if they would count. They wouldn't even need Toronto's help if that were the case. They could of signed Kessel to the amount the other team wanted and shipped him off. I'm sure given the opportunity to play for a team like San Jose and Kessel would agree to a sign and trade.
I agree Burke wouldn't have looked good, but he did give Boston ample warning what his objective was. Not to mention is it about looking good or making your team better? |
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dirtyjeffer
Merry Christmas
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| said by alamarco :Not to mention is it about looking good or making your team better? it is about making your team better, but if you go around and start submarining every team out there, good luck on getting anyone to work on a trade with you when the shoe is on the other foot...remember, while they are all "competing" against each other, it still takes two to make a trade (or deal)...no one wants to do business with an ass, they would rather see him fail, then get fired.
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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alamarco
o.O
join:2003-06-18
Windsor, ON
clubs: | Very true. You gotta have a relationship with the other GM's to be able to work trades out. |
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The Flash
You don't win friends with salad
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Execulink
1 edit | reply to dirtyjeffer
Some seem to forget his stats are better than they seem, he had 36G and 24A in 70 Regular Season Games, plus 6G and 5A in 11 Playoff Games. That's 42 G, 29 A, 71 points in 81 games, we all know that playoff points are more valuable. He was also Boston's leading goal scorer.
I don't think we have had a potential elite winger since Mogilny and that was ages ago. He has the potential to hit 50 goals when the Leafs have someone like Kadri playing with him in the later years. |
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Mauricio
aka CigaR
Premium
join:2008-12-06 | reply to dirtyjeffer
Kessel is out until November. He seems to be an injury-prone type of player. No to mention his health issues a few years back. I think the Leafs overpaid for his services.
Only time will tell though. |
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