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ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
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join:2002-05-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs:
| State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... The state controller's office says it will begin issuing IOUs on Thursday for the first time since 1992 if the governor and Legislature haven't come up with a budget fix.
If that happens, who will get them, how will they work and will you be able to use them to pay your bills?
»www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c···FP50.DTL
Fortunately for us we have found out that the state can not issue these to health and in home support workers and certain unions. And if you are getting unemployment you will still be able to get them because they are issued from a separate fund guaranteed by the Federal Government.
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Why is it that people who never pay attention to the weather are always the first to complain.
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nirvansk815
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs:
 ·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... I don't think anyone really knows what's going on. California's finances are running in complete chaos; guess what, we still don't understand the basics...
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There's so much to be thankful for...How can anyone be sad? | |
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Waldothe3rd
Premium
join:2009-02-16
Sun N Sand
 ·ViaTalk
| Just got my State Income Tax Refund check last week (I procrastinate a little on that April 15th deadline) It's been deposited and has cleared! It'll be interesting how banks will react this time whether they accept IOUs or not. What's the latest on the budget? Does anyone see it getting passed in the near future? Thanks to Jock-o, I've stayed away from the news of late... | |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| It's time for the annual tears over the state not paying bills. This is where those of us that live off the taxpayers start complaining that we don't pay enough taxes. All together now.... Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Until the morons in the legislature come up with 24 billion in spending cuts I don't want them to pay anybody. If the pain gets bad enough maybe they will grow up and start slashing the bloated budget. Below is an example of Sacramento "thinking". Your budget committee charwoman's words: "Living within our means is meaningless." Brilliant, just flipping brilliant!!!
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJZDusqg6qw
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- | |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
1 edit | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by sholling  :(youtube clip) first, lets just agree, plainly, the group has no rights to the songs/music used in the clip, and no excuse to use them. The group is clearly not living within its own means... but I'll move on.
Second, she isn't saying that it's fun to "hit" corporations when it's tougher, shes saying that they're freeloaders ANYWAY, and making them pay their share ALL the time is fair.
Third - there is a basic cost to have the various things we, and the corporations here, enjoy on a daily basis. Either the benefits evaporate, or people and corporations pay in. We can argue about what benefits are rational, but still. From that point of view, that there is some rational cost to having a functioning state, ANY tax reduction is "spending". The state is giving up its right to future income. We can compare to other states just as easily as we can compare to our own past history, but whatever the reference point is, a tax "cut" is the state spending your hard earned $$. Corporate tax "cut" means that mom and pop are subsidizing Disneyland and the ARCO refinery.
you have to understand (or maybe "buy in") that your earnings while in the state are in some proportion due to the facts that CA provides certain services, upholds certain rights, makes certain decisions, etc. The state has a right to that proportion of your earnings because you choose to live here, just like the Fed has a right because you live in the US. If you think there isn't a benefit to living here, go work in India or Taiwan. Or Russia. Or in what used to be the southern, eastern block. Or in Africa. Somewhere where you could work twice as hard as you do here, and make the equivalent of a $1/month, live in something with a dirt floor, and have a sub-point percentage chance of having access to an emergency room.
Yes, it's arguable whether 94% of pay is rational, and its clear that the CA managers are making other-worldly decisions about some things, but what ISN'T arguable is that CA is better for must of us to live in than some large percentage of the rest of the world. And, it isn't arguable that it costs money.
My point - singling out her comments is useless. What she's responding to is the cram-down approach that's being used to work out the budget. There are programs that have been on the right-wing chopping block for YEARS not because they're frivolous, but because some lobby wants to make money off them. Heath care is one, lots of environmental-related ones are others. You think they want parks to pay their own way because they want higher park prices? no, they want the parks to look like red-lines later on so that they can excuse selling them to developers (the lobby) who can cut the timber, rape the land, and put up shacks made with illegal labor. And, that portion is chump change anyway compared to the deficit.
I'm still flummoxed at how we've switched from "how did we get here" to "what do we cut" so quickly. Fixing the "how" is so much more important, and it has little to do with her comments.
Maybe it would be worthwhile for the state to file bankruptcy. if only to get out of all the bad labor contracts, just like with GM. Will the feds be our DIP financier?
ph, and an opinion on the cram-down tactics:
»www.latimes.com/news/opinion/edi···43.story
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. | |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... The LA Times is a socialist rag - period. Nobody takes their opinions seriously anymore.
The fallacy in your theory is that you see all money as belonging to the government, and anything that they let us keep as "spending". Money belongs to those who earn it, and killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is silly. California's real unemployment rate is roughly 20%. Why in the world would we want to kill more businesses and drive more jobs out of state by raising taxes.
»www.davemanuel.com/2009/04/18/ca···n-march/
quote:
It should be noted that the 11.2% unemployment rate that was posted in March is the U-3 rate - some have publicly stated that they believe that the U-6 unemployment rate is approaching the 20% mark in the state. The U-6 rate is a broader measure of unemployment, and includes people who want full-time work but have given up the search, as well as people who want full-time work but are forced to accept part-time jobs due to "economic" reasons.
The simple solution is to outsource all non law enforcement and court functions to the low bidder - with no strings requiring prevailing wages, gold plated benefits, or unions.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- | |
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ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
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join:2002-05-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs:
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... In the Central Valley the unemployment rate is over 40% because of seasonal workers and down in the Cochella Valley its almost 50%.
We do need to raise taxes, but only by 1 or 2%. If we had a flat tax on all sales we would be doing just fine but that is something that the Liberals would never allow to happen cause it would take away there power base.
One good thing, the Senators will be working well into the morning hours to try to come up with a budget. The bad thing...How many years has it been that Californian politicians ever sent a budget to the Governor on time. 10-20? Not since Reagen ran a balanced budget, not our flower child, nor Pete Wilson.
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»earthlogii.blogspot.com/
»vietaffairsvets.blogspot.com/
Why is it that people who never pay attention to the weather are always the first to complain.
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dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
| said by sholling :The LA Times is a socialist rag - period. Nobody takes their opinions seriously anymore. The fallacy in your theory is that you see all money as belonging to the government, and anything that they let us keep as "spending". With all due respect, these statements are unfair and do nothing to further an intelligent discussion of the matter.
Do you really want a lowest bidder run DMV, or transit system?
You can not have a sovereign state for the public/common good without revenue from the population. We all agree on that, so the question is how best to administer and manage...while trying to keep everyone somewhat satisfied.
This is a difficult trick. But wouldn't it be easier to simply have an automatic, iron-clad, "pay as you go" system written into the state constitution? | |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by dogma :Do you really want a lowest bidder run DMV, or transit system? Yes. They certainly couldn't do a worse job. Include a service level agreement in the contract, and in the case of DMV put the offices out to 2 vendors. Let people pick. Competition will force good service.
This is a difficult trick. But wouldn't it be easier to simply have an automatic, iron-clad, "pay as you go" system written into the state constitution?
Explain.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- | |
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dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by sholling :Yes. They certainly couldn't do a worse job. Include a service level agreement in the contract, and in the case of DMV put the offices out to 2 vendors. Let people pick. Competition will force good service. said by No_Strings :BTW, outsourcing the DMV surely couldn't make it worse, could it? Think of talking into the speaker at Jack-in-the-Box.
Although JB does a competitive job of dishing out fast food at "lowest bidder" price points, the facilities are rat infested, lines are prohibitively long during lunch, you can't understand the workers, and your order is almost always screwed up.
...on second thought, you two may have a point. | |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... Why can't you understand the workers?
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dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by CurtesyFlush :Why can't you understand the workers? ...'cause I don't speaka or habla da Español, Farsi, Maṣri, Coptic, Bedouin, Sudanese Arabic, Tagalog, Urdu, Navajo, or any of the native languages spoken by the drive-thru workers. | |
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nirvansk815
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs: | Going to Starbucks is way worse. Am I the only one who can't stand the pseudo happiness in the line?
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There's so much to be thankful for...How can anyone be sad? | |
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No_Strings
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The OC
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| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by nirvansk815 :Am I the only one who can't stand the pseudo happiness in the line? No, just the only one with a sig that hums Katrina and the Waves who can't stand the pseudo-happiness. | |
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nirvansk815
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by No_Strings :said by nirvansk815 :Am I the only one who can't stand the pseudo happiness in the line? No, just the only one with a sig that hums Katrina and the Waves who can't stand the pseudo-happiness. I'm not sad, I'm irritated. I'm not sorry my sig bothers you so much. You must be a regular 
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There's so much to be thankful for...How can anyone be sad? | |
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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... It doesn't bother me at all. I was just enjoying the irony of those two statements being juxtaposed. I find humor in odd places. | |
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nirvansk815
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs: | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... Are you a writer? | |
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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... Are you kidding? I can barely read. | |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA | I'm regular. | |
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nirvansk815
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs: | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... Your irregular by definition. Sorry. | |
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No_Strings
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| said by dogma : But wouldn't it be easier to simply have an automatic, iron-clad, "pay as you go" system written into the state constitution? Sounds good, but it doesn't allow for legitimate emergencies where borrowing might be prudent or (without explicit mandate) provision for a modest reserve.
As we're seeing, it's incredibly difficult from a political perspective to scale government back. Growing it is easy, but people and politicians get very acclimated to the status quo. There's no going back. "You can't take away [insert favorite program] because children and old people will die." What did we do before [favorite program] existed? Why can't we go back?
We need a mindset change in Sacramento and in the general population that the state should not and cannot provide for every need or whim.
BTW, outsourcing the DMV surely couldn't make it worse, could it? | |
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nirvansk815
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA
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1 edit | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday....
bls.com |
said by nirvansk815 :said by sholling :» www.davemanuel.com/2009/04/18/ca···n-march/ quote:
It should be noted that the 11.2% unemployment rate that was posted in March is the U-3 rate - some have publicly stated that they believe that the U-6 unemployment rate is approaching the 20% mark in the state. The U-6 rate is a broader measure of unemployment, and includes people who want full-time work but have given up the search, as well as people who want full-time work but are forced to accept part-time jobs due to "economic" reasons.
Is your argument completely subjective? Found this for national numbers:
»www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm
Nothing for California's U-6 rate.
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There's so much to be thankful for...How can anyone be sad? | |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| said by sholling :The LA Times is a socialist rag - period. Nobody takes their opinions seriously anymore. define: seriously
The fallacy in your theory is that you see all money as belonging to the government, and anything that they let us keep as "spending". Money belongs to those who earn it, and killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is silly. 1) it's not a theory. 2) you aren't reading with an adequate amount of comprehension. 3) the state earned a portion of your paycheck, so it belongs to them - we're just haggling over details. 4) i think talking about geese and golden eggs is silly.
5) i think you're mistaking "golden" for "gilded." it's a common mistake.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. | |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by jig :3) the state earned a portion of your paycheck, so it belongs to them - we're just haggling over details. No the state took a portion of my income. The details involve how much money that the people allow the parasite of government to suck from the life of the economy before they pass a new Gann spending limit.
4) i think talking about geese and golden eggs is silly. It may or may not be silly but it's is the perfect metaphor. The source of wealth is commerce. Make it too costly for commerce to be competitive or profitable and it either leaves or dies - the death of the goose that lays the golden eggs. The fact that this state's unemployment rate is higher than the national average means that our goose (businesses) are less healthy than those those in other states. The combination of excessive taxes and a hostile regulatory environment are a big part of the reason. You can ignore business 101 all you want my friend but it doesn't change the facts.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- | |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... it could just be because there are too many people in CA.
if you drive on any public road to reach work, the state earned a portion of your income. if you stay at home and hear a siren every now and again, the state earned a portion of your income. if you breath air that isn't completely laden with soot, the state earned a portion of your income. if you made $10m by employing 50 workers and providing services around the state, the state earned a LARGE portion of your income.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. | |
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No_Strings
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The OC
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| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... I'm on the sholling side of the wording here - and it's more than semantics. The state demands as tribute for the roads, sirens and various programs of dubious value huge sums from its residents. It earns nothing.
The lexicon is a clear indication of where you two are divided. | |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
1 edit | said by jig :if you drive on any public road to reach work, the state earned a portion of your income. if you stay at home and hear a siren every now and again, the state earned a portion of your income. if you breath air that isn't completely laden with soot, the state earned a portion of your income. if you made $10m by employing 50 workers and providing services around the state, the state earned a LARGE portion of your income. That's our difference. You see residents of California as chattel of the state. And as such everything that the state's property earns belongs to the state. What the state doesn't take as generosity on the part of the state. Rather like the feudal system, mafia protection rackets, or even soviet Marxism.
On the other hand I see a free people, that are free to use their stills and risk their saving to get ahead and that everything that they earn is theirs to keep. What the state extracts from them has to be carefully measured, absolutely minimized, and must never be a penalty for success or hard work. Instead their success should be celebrated and further successes encouraged. It's just an opposite outlook on society and economics.
Unfortunately many of our uneducation institutions teach your flavor of economics as a form of social "justice", and our legislature has adopted it as their religion. The old "you have more than me and I'm going to get my big brother to take it away from you and give some of it to me." In this case government is playing big brother in both a figurative and more and more in a 1984ish role.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- | |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... no, i see residents as choosing to live here, and you see them chained to the post. the only reason why its a hard CHOICE to live elsewhere is because there are lots of BENEFITS to living here. benefits that aren't free.
you see yourself free to keep what you earn. i see that what you earn in CA is in some direct way related to the services that CA provides, including the courts and police to enforce your rights to actually get paid those earned wages, not to mention exclude others from your property.
we're all here based on a series of contracts - some with the state, some with each other, many are simply implied. by being here, by doing business here, we're subject to the terms of the contract with the state. we (and now i'm using the royal, timeless "we") structured that contract over the years to be a particular way. we the voters. our relative freedom comes at a cost, and it's real, and it's part of that contract with the state. some people just pay taxes, some people shoot bullets in wars, but we all pay. your "penalty" is just compensation (again, we can quibble about what the real numbers should be) for the benefits we receive, and clearly, CLEARLY, those that earn more receive more benefits. the more they earn, the more they're dependent upon those services being provided by the state. if you don't think so, come up with an example.
point: if you want to be absolutely free to keep what you earn, go find an un-nationalized island, set up your infrastructure, link up your sat phone, and start earning. i'd love to see your balance sheet. have fun with the pirates.
maybe the problem is that you think you don't have to pay if you don't like the quality of the work done. two problems: 1) that's not true under the law or otherwise, and 2) if you think the state does nothing useful with your "penalty", then you are galactically blind.
and, hey, the fair part is that you can rescind the contract any time you want. Alaska (or your island) beckons.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. | |
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TearAbite
join:2001-07-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
1 edit | Everybody wants everything (healthcare for all the illegals, smaller classroom sizes, more teachers, higher pay, open border, etc), yet nobody wants to pay..
What could possibly go wrong? | |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by TearAbite :Everybody wants everything (healthcare for all the illegals, smaller classroom sizes, more teachers, higher pay, open border, etc), yet nobody wants to pay.. What could possibly go wrong? No those that live off the taxpayers want those things. Those that work their asses off in the private sector want spending cuts and more bang for our hard earned tax dollars.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- | |
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bjl
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Newport Beach, CA
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by sholling :said by TearAbite :Everybody wants everything (healthcare for all the illegals, smaller classroom sizes, more teachers, higher pay, open border, etc), yet nobody wants to pay.. What could possibly go wrong? No those that live off the taxpayers want those things. Those that work their asses off in the private sector want spending cuts and more bang for our hard earned tax dollars. not everyone that receives a paycheck that's taxpayer backed feels this way.
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ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
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join:2002-05-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs:
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... Somehow I dont think that my retirement payment equals that much against what I earned. I made an average of $70,000 the last three years I worked and I make a little over a $1,000 now on SS.
SS uses a point system for retirees unless you get sick when you are young, then a different formula is used. It just so happened that when I got sick I had 54 points so I was able to Retire out right instead of on disability which makes a big difference when you approach 65.
For those who receive SSI, the portion that is paid by the state will be covered by the Feds.
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Why is it that people who never pay attention to the weather are always the first to complain.
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by ghostpainter :Somehow I dont think that my retirement payment equals that much against what I earned. I think he's referring to the state employees retiring after 30 years at 90-94% of final pay.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- | |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
1 edit | Not me, i am getting paid.edit: Not that it matter to me being that i am not dependent that much on medi-cal anymore. | |
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SOLdesign
Did I drink a shot of Irrational Whore?
Premium
join:2002-07-29
Woodland Hills, CA | Did I miss it or did the article mention SDI (disability)? Wells Fargo is my bank, so I guess I can finally move my account if they won't accept the IOU. Any suggestions for a bank? | |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
1 edit | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by SOLdesign :Did I miss it or did the article mention SDI (disability)? Wells Fargo is my bank, so I guess I can finally move my account if they won't accept the IOU. Any suggestions for a bank? "The state's portion of Supplemental Security Income and State Supplementary Payment programs for blind, disabled and low-income seniors. However, the federal government will pick up the state's unpaid share and the state will reimburse the federal government."
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SOLdesign
Did I drink a shot of Irrational Whore?
Premium
join:2002-07-29
Woodland Hills, CA | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... thank you. | |
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ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs:
| The state's portion of Supplemental Security Income and State Supplementary Payment programs for blind, disabled and low-income seniors could receive I.O.U.'s. However, the federal government will pick up the state's unpaid share and the state will reimburse the federal government sp you should not have any problems if this is what you are referring too.. | |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| I predict we will not have new budget in place till September or even October. Government is still functioning fine and until public gets really hurt legislators will have no real reason to compromise to get new budget passed.
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dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
| For what its worth:
said by Marketwatch.com :
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Wells Fargo & Co. said Thursday it will accept (IOU's, AKA scrip) warrants issued by the state of California from its customers for a limited time starting July 2 to July 10.
said by Reuters :
Bank of America said it will accept the warrants from its customers, at least through July 10.
Notice how this is worded? "...it's customers".
With this commitment, the state should print up $24B in IOU's, run down to both of these banks, cash them in, balance the budget with the cash, refuse to honor the IOU's in October citing predatory lending practices (The banks are acting like "payday lenders"), and demand a modification plan. | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
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ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
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join:2002-05-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs: | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... The Terminator isn't listening.....His ear mussels are as flabby as is the rest of his body.  | |
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DanHo
Premium
join:2002-05-20
Seattle, WA
1 edit | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... said by ghostpainter :ear mussels He should really have those looked at by a Dr or a chef. | |
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ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
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join:2002-05-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs: | Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday.... He still isn't listening....  | |
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