sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| reply to jig
Re: State IOUs...Who will get them on Thursday....
said by jig  :1) you've eliminated the dole, so that benefit is out. more people paying taxes is fine, but they're just paying their own share for schools and living etc, what about the employer who has access to all these employees? not only do they have to pay for themselves, but they have to pay a little for that access to the benefits their employees and clients get from the state. Does the state own those employees? If not then the employer owes the state nothing for those employees. Employment is a business relationship between the employer and employee.
3) low tax rates are one way, and a good living environment is another. businesses seem unable to regulate themselves,
You forget that 99.99% of companies regulate themselves just fine. Those that provide poor service or make bad business decisions go out of business and are replaced by new companies that do a better job. Those few state regulations that bring value (CalOHSA) bring value to employers and employees so the burden should be shared.
so i'm not crying for them when they feel restricted in how they can rape the system. What percentage "rape the system"?
the current mortgage securities crap to make that point? it's staring us in the face - businesses need to be regulated or they screw everyone over, including themselves. I'm not a fan of too big to fail. Those banks and auto companies should have been allowed to fail. That's how the system regulates its self. That's what should have happened. Let's face it those who go into government are those that aren't bright enough or industrious enough to become a success in the private sector. They trade away access to huge salaries in exchange for security. If they had the talent and intelligence to run a company they'd be doing it. Why would you think that a bench warmer knows better than an All Star?
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- |
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ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs: | reply to DanHo
He still isn't listening....  |
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DanHo
Premium
join:2002-05-20
Seattle, WA
1 edit | reply to ghostpainter
said by ghostpainter :ear mussels He should really have those looked at by a Dr or a chef. |
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ghostpainter
I Write for the Apocalypse
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
clubs: | reply to RR Conductor
The Terminator isn't listening.....His ear mussels are as flabby as is the rest of his body.  |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| reply to sholling
said by sholling : The people of the State of California benefit most by encouraging the growth of private business and the accumulation of wealth. just to note - "wealth" is not taxed, just earnings. wealth by itself is a drain on the system - it uses resources (mainly for exclusion purposes), but doesn't give anything back. it's kind of a side point, but interesting. i think you may be mixing up "earnings" with "wealth" in your arguments, or maybe in your thinking. i'm not saying you are, just wanted to note the issue.
More private sector jobs mean more money to spend in stores which translates into still more jobs, more jobs translates into fewer people on the dole (reduced state outlays) and more people paying taxes. Encouraging businesses to come to California and those already here to expand is a win-win for everybody except the power hungry bureaucrats. Attracting employers, and encouraging those already here to expand here requires low tax rates and a business friendly regulatory environment. Without those two things then businesses will continue to follow your advice and relocate outside of California. We all lose when that happens.
1) you've eliminated the dole, so that benefit is out. more people paying taxes is fine, but they're just paying their own share for schools and living etc, what about the employer who has access to all these employees? not only do they have to pay for themselves, but they have to pay a little for that access to the benefits their employees and clients get from the state.
2) bureaucrats love businesses they can pander to. taxes or no taxes. maybe they also love the extra leverage it gives them when the tax rates are high, but i don't know.
3) low tax rates are one way, and a good living environment is another. businesses seem unable to regulate themselves, so i'm not crying for them when they feel restricted in how they can rape the system. do i really have to dredge up the savings and loan scandal as well as the current mortgage securities crap to make that point? it's staring us in the face - businesses need to be regulated or they screw everyone over, including themselves. i'm incredulous that people think it's ok now that times are bad to reduce regulation. hello? it's just an excuse! it's a lie, and they expect the hard times to be just enough leverage to trick people into forgetting what happened just a few hours ago.
come on, man. at least remember the last year before you start mouthing that old-hat propaganda.
happy 4th. i'm celebrating Alaska's independence, I hope you all are as well.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
 ·Comcast
| reply to ghostpainter
The man speaks the truth  |
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heliox
Rcp's Love Deep Breathing
Premium
join:2000-11-28
Irvine, CA
clubs: | reply to Gizy
Huh? What's different? |
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Gizy
Have you thanked a soldier today?
Premium
join:2002-08-26
Lake Oswego, OR
clubs: | reply to heliox
I'm sorry, in this economy, that's different than a mortgage how? |
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heliox
Rcp's Love Deep Breathing
Premium
join:2000-11-28
Irvine, CA
clubs:
| reply to Gizy
I can see banks charging fees to non-customers.
It's called a business.
Fees to it's own customers is another matter.
I also think it is damn nice they will even accept warrants (IOUs) from the state. Not accepting them from non-customers should be assumed (unless it's a really friendly place).
Think about the cash that will be leaving the bank and the return will be who-knows-when. And only 5% interest on those warrants? Please.
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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have" Thomas Jefferson |
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Gizy
Have you thanked a soldier today?
Premium
join:2002-08-26
Lake Oswego, OR
clubs:
| reply to dogma
Why does it surprise you that they would accept it from their customers only? Banks don't do anything for non-customers without charging hefty fees. For some things they charge their own customers hefty fees.
I got a check from someone recently that I was a little concerned about depositing in my account and having it bounce. (Don't ask why I took the check....long story). So I took it to their bank to cash it. Used to be no problem even if you weren't a customer.
I was told the only way I could avoid the $10 check cashing fee was to open an account in my name with a minimum of $100. After looking at them like they were nuts, I very loudly said there was no way I'd open an account with such poor customer service. $10 fee on a $75 check. Yes, I paid it, and no I won't be accepting checks from that person again. The bank was WaMu right after they were acquired.
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Any Soldier
My Gallery
Duct tape is like "The Force." It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together. |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| reply to dogma
Here is problem With July 10 date. State will send some but not all of the checks that were printed tomorrow but a result of holiday, post office will likely not deliver the check till 7 or 8. The rest likely will not get their check till after July 10 deadline. So basically boa/wells fargo are not going to be getting that many IOU
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i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet |
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CurtesyFlush
Bababooey, fafafooey, tatatoothy.
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Fontana, CA
| reply to dogma
said by dogma :Notice how this is worded? "...it's customers". Well, it wasn't worded exactly like that...
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My dog walks on water. |
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dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
| reply to ghostpainter
For what its worth:
said by Marketwatch.com :
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Wells Fargo & Co. said Thursday it will accept (IOU's, AKA scrip) warrants issued by the state of California from its customers for a limited time starting July 2 to July 10.
said by Reuters :
Bank of America said it will accept the warrants from its customers, at least through July 10.
Notice how this is worded? "...it's customers".
With this commitment, the state should print up $24B in IOU's, run down to both of these banks, cash them in, balance the budget with the cash, refuse to honor the IOU's in October citing predatory lending practices (The banks are acting like "payday lenders"), and demand a modification plan. |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
1 edit | reply to dogma
said by dogma :You know how much I despise broadcast TeeeVeee. Broadcast TV is only a portion of it. Yes broadcast news has become the unofficial propaganda arm of the left wing of the Democrat Party and decieve the hell out of the public. The last round of the state budget mess was a prime example. You'd leave with the impression that sainted Democrats only want to raise taxes to keep Republicans from throwing old ladies out in the street. None of which was true, but that was the spin on every channel. And god forbid an in depth investigation. They only have time give us a sound byte and move on to American Idle news.
But the rabbit hole goes a lot deeper. The socialists running the government uneducation system fail to teach kids anything about their country and how it was ment to work. But what can you expect from a system that in 12 years can't teach a kid to balance a checkbook.
many folks think I am the nutjob. Well yeah. 
If you are a student of basic capitalism, you are no doubt familiar with the economic model of supply and demand. You are probably also aware of the fact that the land mass of California is not increasing, yet California's population is continuing to grow, literally as we speak in spite of it's economic woes and high unemployment. (...just ask FutureMon ). There are currently 40,000,000 people crowded into the State, with an additional 10 Million expected over the next 8-10 years. To put this into perspective, California is rapidly approaching the per square mile population density of Japan. When California's population reaches 50M, it will have 1 resident per every .003 square miles. Japan currently has one resident per every .002 square miles. The obvious Difference of course is Japan enjoys a real world-class diversified industrial base and a very highly educated workforce, and California...well, not so much. Supply = California's finite land & resource assets (Perfectly Inelastic Supply). Demand = 50 Million people. Outcome = Very high cost of living and basic resources. The reality is businesses that are labor intensive leave California...not for the tax issues (and yes, comparatively they are higher), but because said companies can not possibly be competitive in a global marketplace when they have to pay a premium for both human resources and material resources. So again, it's not a "Fascist bureaucrat conspiracy" in SacTown. It's the waves and waves of people immigrating into the state looking for streets paved with gold, in conjunction with businesses relocating to areas that provide a lower cost workforce and lower cost raw materials.
Economics 101: Without private sector jobs the standard of living in California will continue to fall as more and more companies leave. Excessive taxes and regulation accelerate that process. Why would we allow our government to turn a recession into a depression.
But getting to the bottom line your argument takes us to where all of your arguments take us. That everything is wrong with the world but cheer up - there is no hope and we should all just hole up in bunkers. That there is no fixing any problem because it's all going to hell anyway and it's better to just let things continue to fall apart. "Abandon all hope ye who enter here".
Your new sig line... “Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch'entrate“
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| reply to ghostpainter
I predict we will not have new budget in place till September or even October. Government is still functioning fine and until public gets really hurt legislators will have no real reason to compromise to get new budget passed.
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i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet |
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dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
| reply to sholling
said by sholling :A perfect storm of corruption and ignorance. ...and ultimately, just who's fault is that? Using your words in another recent post: "...nobody has a gun to their heads".
You know how much I despise broadcast TeeeVeee. You know my opinion of TeeeVeee stems from how it's programming and commercials influence a populace too damn lazy to think for themselves. But when I sermonize the evils of TeeeVeee, many folks think I am the nutjob. So I have effectively given up that crusade, except for the occasional rant to clear my system. As long as the GenPop get their panem et circenses, god bless 'um, because there is no law against abject ignorance.
Odds are, at some point, you too will come to that conclusion.
said by sholling :Encouraging businesses to come to California and those already here to expand is a win-win for everybody except the power hungry bureaucrats. Attracting employers, and encouraging those already here to expand here requires low tax rates and a business friendly regulatory environment. Without those two things then businesses will continue to follow your advice and relocate outside of California. We all lose when that happens. If you are a student of basic capitalism, you are no doubt familiar with the economic model of supply and demand. You are probably also aware of the fact that the land mass of California is not increasing, yet California's population is continuing to grow, literally as we speak in spite of it's economic woes and high unemployment. (...just ask FutureMon ). There are currently 40,000,000 people crowded into the State, with an additional 10 Million expected over the next 8-10 years.
To put this into perspective, California is rapidly approaching the per square mile population density of Japan. When California's population reaches 50M, it will have 1 resident per every .003 square miles. Japan currently has one resident per every .002 square miles. The obvious Difference of course is Japan enjoys a real world-class diversified industrial base and a very highly educated workforce, and California...well, not so much.
Supply = California's finite land & resource assets (Perfectly Inelastic Supply). Demand = 50 Million people. Outcome = Very high cost of living and basic resources.
The reality is businesses that are labor intensive leave California...not for the tax issues (and yes, comparatively they are higher), but because said companies can not possibly be competitive in a global marketplace when they have to pay a premium for both human resources and material resources.
So again, it's not a "Fascist bureaucrat conspiracy" in SacTown. It's the waves and waves of people immigrating into the state looking for streets paved with gold, in conjunction with businesses relocating to areas that provide a lower cost workforce and lower cost raw materials. |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| reply to jig
said by jig :said by sholling :In other words the state government doesn't contribute to wealth building except by staying out of the way of commerce and innovation. Hardy something anyone should have to pay extra for. funny, that's not even close to what i said. want to move to arizona? you like guns... » www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31683427/ns···ws-life/ Why bother, it's already the law in 40 states and it's coming to California. Oh and BTW I don't drink.
But back on the subject at hand. The people of the State of California benefit most by encouraging the growth of private business and the accumulation of wealth. That creates jobs in a state with a combined un/under employment rate between 18 and 20%. More private sector jobs mean more money to spend in stores which translates into still more jobs, more jobs translates into fewer people on the dole (reduced state outlays) and more people paying taxes. Encouraging businesses to come to California and those already here to expand is a win-win for everybody except the power hungry bureaucrats. Attracting employers, and encouraging those already here to expand here requires low tax rates and a business friendly regulatory environment. Without those two things then businesses will continue to follow your advice and relocate outside of California. We all lose when that happens.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| reply to sholling
said by sholling :In other words the state government doesn't contribute to wealth building except by staying out of the way of commerce and innovation. Hardy something anyone should have to pay extra for. funny, that's not even close to what i said.
want to move to arizona? you like guns...
»www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31683427/ns···ws-life/
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. |
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aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to jig
said by jig :i'm saying that those that earn higher income use more services in earning that higher income. as in, the state is entitled to take a larger chunk from high earners than from the low earners because high earners rely more on the services of the state to earn their high income. What...?
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.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! |
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sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
| reply to jig
said by jig :it's not a matter of special, it's a matter of how much, and the derived benefits therefrom. In other words the state government doesn't contribute to wealth building except by staying out of the way of commerce and innovation. Hardy something anyone should have to pay extra for.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT-- |
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