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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA

[ Classes] Basic DK Stats Question

OK... it goes Hit (till capped), then Expertise (till capped), then Strength, right?

At the moment I am sitting at the following stats:
Strength: 1196
Agility: 267
Power: 3336
Hit: 343
Crit Chance: 23.47%
Expertise: 11

All my gems are exclusively strength. Am I doing this wrong? Should I regem until I hit 29 Expertise then go strength? I'm getting conflicting reports from my guildmates, and I'm behind the firewall.... so fire away!
--
"One can lead a child to knowledge, but one cannot make him think."

Source: Lt. Col. Jean V. Dubois (Ret.), Starship Troopers


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS

Hit rating is crucial. Expertise is also very important, but accept that you won't hit cap so don't go sacrificing a fuck ton of STR just for it.

You should go read the EJ threads. They have weight values for things. X amount of STR = X amount of Expertise. Then you can compare items. Maybe you need expertise, but using those values, you'll be able to judge, is 5 expertise worth giving up 50str? The answer is obviously no, but when the numbers become closer, like 20expertise for 20str, the math from the mom's-basement-nerds will help you make the right choice.
--
'A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.' -Thomas Jefferson -


Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
Would love to but EJ is blocked. Which is why I was asking here. I'd take a layman's answer over some mom's-basement-geek, anyways.

kuhbus

join:2009-04-22

2 edits
reply to Krisnatharok
i remember the hit cap being at 296 or 298 (equals 9% to lvl 83 bosses). so i would try to switch some 40 points in hit to expertise. strenth is a must!

my prio is:
hit
expertise
strength
edit: forgot crit
armor pen


Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
I haven't gemmed for hit at all. It's just that way with my gear. How much strength should I swap for exp? arpen is low on the list for unholy, probably below crit.

kuhbus

join:2009-04-22

reply to Krisnatharok
try to replace gear
sorry forgot crit.
crits is ways more important then arpen
i play blood and so physical dmg is ab bit more important due to hs/ds.
after work i try to figure out what EJ says. will post tomorrow!


Goggalor
Psychonaut

join:2009-06-09
Virginia Beach, VA

reply to Krisnatharok
I think Unholy is the same way Ret is when it comes to damage and, thus, gemming. A good chunk of your damage isn't physical, so ArP is pushed to the bottom of the list.

The priorities for Ret (so more than likely the same for you) are as follows:

Hit (8% = 263 rating)
Expertise (Some argue that strength should be second, expertise third)
Strength
Crit
Agility
Haste
ArP

»e4ae.blogspot.com
»ferarro.blogspot.com
»maintankadin.failsafedesign.com
Those should all get through the filter if you want to read up some more, even if they are paladin spots.


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
Armor Penetration shouldn't even be considered when going Unholy.


Goggalor
Psychonaut

join:2009-06-09
Virginia Beach, VA
Well, he does do auto swings and a good bit of gear in Uld has it on there, so it should be included... just at the bottom of the list.


bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO

reply to Archivis
said by Archivis See Profile :

Armor Penetration shouldn't even be considered when going Unholy.
Well, not entirely. Heart strikes and auto attacks will still benefit from ArPen. It's definitely not as high of a priority as for blood or frost but with the way it seems to be on every piece of Uld gear you're going to end up with it and it does help a little. Don't gem for it by any means as unholy, but don't write it off as useless either.

My DK is unholy and after running Uld enough my DPS gear has me at almost 25% ArPen, I might have to test a blood DPS build to see if I might benefit more because of all the ArPen I have.

Quickdamage

join:2009-06-27
Maynard, MA

reply to Krisnatharok
You really don't need to expertise cap. I run at 18 expertise and if you do your job right and dps behind the boss you will see at most 5 dodge/parry for an entire raid. Ya, you have Virulence so on your own you are almost spell hit capped as well so if you find gear you can swap out with no hit and more crit/haste/arm pen what have you, you would be better off.

Tehuno

join:2005-01-18
Bartlesville, OK
dont unholy dk's need 17% hit to be capped since a large portion of their attacks are magic damage?


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
Hit rating impacts Melee hit differently than it does spell hit.

Also, spell hit is reduced from 17% via talents.

Quickdamage

join:2009-06-27
Maynard, MA
reply to Tehuno
17% spell hit cap is 445.94. Unholy DK's have 3 points in Virulence which lowers it to 367.24. If you have a shadow priest it lowers it another 3% to 288.54 and lastly if you have a Draenai it lowers it another 1% to 262.31.

pr1mo
Premium
join:2003-11-12
Harwood Heights, IL
·Comcast Formerly ..

reply to Krisnatharok
Straight from EJ...this is on the Blood DPS page.

quote:
The two most important stats for Blood DKs are Strength and Armor Penetration. The general rule of thumb while gearing up is ALWAYS gem for STR, except to meet Meta gem requirements.

The following are the currently accepted stat weights for Blood DKs, thanks to Methods for his outstanding work with DK stat equivalencies!

quote:
Stat - APE
Attack Power 1
Weapon DPS 9.89
Strength 2.89
Armor Penetration 2.75
Hit Rating (to cap) 2.51
Expertise Rating 2.47
Crit Rating 1.56
Haste Rating 1.5
Agility 1.37
Hit Rating (to spell hit cap) .52
Armor .03

quote:
Hit and Expertise:
Theoretically both STR and ArP are more important stats then both Hit or Expertise, which means that even if you are not Hit Capped, or Expertise capped, you will always see the biggest DPS increase by gemming STR/ArP.

The melee hit cap is 8% or ~262 Hit rating, this should be fairly easy to obtain with the gear currently available from Ulduar. The challenge I have found is typically not overshooting the Hit Cap by too much, at one point sitting at a frustrating 383 Hit Rating!

The soft expertise cap is a little more tricky as there are so many variable that go into it. It is a little more straightforward now that the 5 expertise on Blood Gorged was converted to 10% ArP. You want to be aiming for 25 Expertise (note "25 Expertise" not "25 Expertise Rating").

The relative weights of these stats were calculated factoring in misses, etc. so let's please not turn this thread into another argument about sims.

The use of both sims and some great spreadsheet are being applied in the BiS thread, covering all specs of DKs. While new content continues to be bested, and new drops continue to be added I will for now refer you to that thread, as they are doing a great job keeping up with the changes. Once we reach a better statis I will update this post with what is determined to be the best set of gear.

Gear Lists will also be uploaded once the approximate weightings have been sorted out. For now, it is probably best to refer to the Optimal gearing: the BiS thread.

One of the current discussions is regarding an inflection point between STR and ArP. It has been currently theorized that once you exceed 6200 AP the APE for ArP will exceed that of STR. Making it proper at that point to start gemming for ArP. The math and sims behind this theory seem solid, and personally once I hit around 6300 AP raid buffed began switching some gems, with positive results thus far.



Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
So even though I am well-under the "optimal rating" of 25 Expertise, I shouldn't necessarily re-gem for it. Thanks for the post.
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