Topic 'Shocked, shocked I say' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644105 en Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:39:48 EDT Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:39:48 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22656043 said by Goober:

It's still a pointer to illegal materials. That is, contributing or enabling the infringement of copyrighted materials.Contributing or enabling are relatively "new" expansions of copyright law and I really don't agree with them.

It brings up the analogy of Radar Detectors and Jammers. They primarily exist for illegal usages, and actually using them is illegal in many places, but selling them isn't... yet one could argue selling them, even manufacturing them, is a "Contributing" or "Enabling".

I'm not a big fan of new expansions of law that criminalize common behavior.

Course, what I think matters not, what matters is the actual laws that TPB is being charged under. Unfortunately many of these laws are written for the specific benefit of certain companies/industry, and not for the public good.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22656043 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:18:25 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22653798 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22653798 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:14:35 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22652737 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22652737 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:24:24 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646770 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646770 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:53:59 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646722 said by rahvin112:

That's funny, I've found substantial freely available material on TPB. Do a search for Linux and see how many torrents you hit.
Go look at the Top 100 link prominently displayed on their page and tell me how many of those are legal torrents. A quick look shows that not a single one of them is. No one is denying that they offer free information, but I hope you're trying to insinuate that is their main purpose for existing ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646722 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:43:44 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646716
Very simply, the basic copyright rules have been adopted by all the signatories. The DMCA is not within the Berne Convention or TRIP agreement. But, other much more basic rules are. Contributory infringement is based on the base copyrigh laws. Hence, most countries have the ability to enforce that aspect of copyright infringement.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646716 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:41:55 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646714 said by KrK:

said by Matt:

Repeat after me, "The Pirate Bay hosts the torrents on their server and makes fun of copyright holders when asked to remove said torrents." Google does not host the torrent files and responds in the appropriate manner to DMCA take down requests.
Repeat after me, "The Pirate bay does NOT host the torrents on their servers and they did make fun of ILLEGAL THREATS by foreign blowhards. Meanwhile companies like Google et al MUST comply with laws that DO apply to them like the DMCA because they OPERATE WITHIN THE USA."
They don't host the torrents? Since when? Here is an example of legal content that I just looked up: »torrents.thepiratebay.org/497629···.torrent]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646714 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:41:39 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646710
You can't say that about Google. That's the difference. "Substantial" non-infringing use. Not "a relatively tiny little bit of inconsequential" non-infringing use.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646710 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:40:46 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646696 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646696 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:35:54 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646689
The reason you haven't is to prove accessory you have to prove that the person in question new what was occurring and assisted in such. TPB has no knowledge of anything in the torrents, titles can mean anything and the there is nothing but a hash in the torrent.

This of course neglects that copyright infringement is rarely prosecuted as the criminal variant and every case run in the US has been a civil case. But who cares about facts when you have your righteous indignation and smug condemnations.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646689 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:33:45 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646617 said by Matt:

Repeat after me, "The Pirate Bay hosts the torrents on their server and makes fun of copyright holders when asked to remove said torrents." Google does not host the torrent files and responds in the appropriate manner to DMCA take down requests.Repeat after me, "The Pirate bay does NOT host the torrents on their servers and they did make fun of ILLEGAL THREATS by foreign blowhards. Meanwhile companies like Google et al MUST comply with laws that DO apply to them like the DMCA because they OPERATE WITHIN THE USA."
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646617 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:18:16 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646377 --
[BQUOTE=[user=Metatron2008]]But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer[/BQUOTE]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646377 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:28:57 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646351 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646351 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:24:24 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646346 said by Matt:

Of course, this was investigated and the Swedish government didn't feel there was any reason to allow a retrial. This is a very well known, basic fact of the trial.Oh yes, the Swedish government, maybe they'd like to send their police forces to confiscate some more servers and keep them for years on end with no charges. Heck, maybe they'd like to have some more people retire and get cushy jobs representing the recording industry. Oh but I do trust them when they say there was no reason for a retrial.

Also, your crap about selling information about people's locked doors is quite silly. As long as I wasn't breaking into people's houses to find out the information I would have the argument that it was information that was observable to anyone, that anyone who requested the information already had whatever intentions they had.

People aren't pirating because of the pirate bay, the pirate bay exists (existed) because people pirate. Yarr.
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said by Metatron2008:

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646346 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:23:25 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646292 said by james:

said by Goober:

Really, before taking on such a condescending tone, learn the facts.
Yes, because an agreement written in 1886 would be so relevant to a torrenting website. Like I said, if they were hosting the actual files you would have a point, but as it stands the only reason they lost their case was because of the douchebag RIAA shill judge who should be removed from his position, along with the judge who was going to investigate him before she was exposed for being in the same organization.
The judge was not a member of the RIAA, but rather a Swedish pro-copyright organization. Of course, this was investigated and the Swedish government didn't feel there was any reason to allow a retrial. This is a very well known, basic fact of the trial.

A torrent is a hash of the copyrighted content. Remove the torrent, you disable the ability to share that instance of said content. This is not a difficult concept but perhaps this will help. If you stand on the street corner and sell a listing of which houses in the neighborhood don't lock their doors and those houses are subsequently broken into, (if law enforcement can prove that your list led to the burglary) you will be charged as an accessory. In the TPB case, they are complicit in facilitating copyright infringement.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646292 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:13:19 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646287 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646287 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:12:23 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646277
»www.quizlaw.com/copyrights/what_···em_1.php]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646277 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:10:58 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646266 said by Goober:

Really, before taking on such a condescending tone, learn the facts.Yes, because an agreement written in 1886 would be so relevant to a torrenting website. Like I said, if they were hosting the actual files you would have a point, but as it stands the only reason they lost their case was because of the douchebag RIAA shill judge who should be removed from his position, along with the judge who was going to investigate him before she was exposed for being in the same organization.
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said by Metatron2008:

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646266 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:09:26 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646241 said by james:

said by Matt:

"The Pirate Bay hosts the torrents on their server and makes fun of copyright holders when asked to remove said torrents."
And the torrents contain no property of the complainants, therefore the appropriate thing to do is tell them to go f**k themselves. Oh but according to you it's illegal to make fun of someone who tells you to do something that they have no right to tell you to do.

DMCA takedown requests are to be used to remove your own intellectual property from someone elses server, since tpb hosted none of their property it means DMCA requests have no bearing. Oh wait, there's also the matter of them not being in the USA, and thus not being obligated to respond to DMCA requests etc... You are aware that there are other countries right? and that US law doesn't apply in them any more than their laws apply to you.
Apparently the Swedish Courts don't agree with you. See what Goober said, there is no need for me to reiterate it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646241 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:05:20 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646170
Look up Berne Convention and TRIPs (may or may not apply where the TPB guys are).

Really, before taking on such a condescending tone, learn the facts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646170 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:47:12 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646123 said by Matt:

"The Pirate Bay hosts the torrents on their server and makes fun of copyright holders when asked to remove said torrents."And the torrents contain no property of the complainants, therefore the appropriate thing to do is tell them to go f**k themselves. Oh but according to you it's illegal to make fun of someone who tells you to do something that they have no right to tell you to do.

DMCA takedown requests are to be used to remove your own intellectual property from someone elses server, since tpb hosted none of their property it means DMCA requests have no bearing. Oh wait, there's also the matter of them not being in the USA, and thus not being obligated to respond to DMCA requests etc... You are aware that there are other countries right? and that US law doesn't apply in them any more than their laws apply to you.
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said by Metatron2008:

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22646123 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:38:30 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22645232 said by P Ness:

said by Matt:

You mean to tell me there is possible illegal activity surrounding with the purchase of a criminal outfit? I for one am shocked and outraged that an organization who would buy a website whose entire business model revolved around copyright infringement would even consider insider trading. :o

Oh, and no. Their business plan will utterly fail because the content producers won't pay them and they won't be able to pay the people bootlegging the material for them. If they have a board of directors and the board didn't approve of this, criminal charges should be filed and the culprit should be ousted.
so i assume google is now illegal..and yahoo....and msft?
cause they all have links to the same thing piratebay did.

so what does PB really do different again?
Google has substantial non-infringing use. TPB does not.

Simple.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22645232 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:41:01 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644830 said by P Ness:

so i assume google is now illegal..and yahoo....and msft?
cause they all have links to the same thing piratebay did.

so what does PB really do different again?
Repeat after me, "The Pirate Bay hosts the torrents on their server and makes fun of copyright holders when asked to remove said torrents." Google does not host the torrent files and responds in the appropriate manner to DMCA take down requests.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644830 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:24:28 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644539 said by Matt:

You mean to tell me there is possible illegal activity surrounding with the purchase of a criminal outfit? I for one am shocked and outraged that an organization who would buy a website whose entire business model revolved around copyright infringement would even consider insider trading. :o

Oh, and no. Their business plan will utterly fail because the content producers won't pay them and they won't be able to pay the people bootlegging the material for them. If they have a board of directors and the board didn't approve of this, criminal charges should be filed and the culprit should be ousted.
Well Matt,
You beat me to the keyboard!
It was called the "Pirate Bay"! What is the difference between what is happening now vs. what has happened with all the file sharing (illegal or not)?
--
The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644539 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:29:55 EDT Re: Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644450 said by Matt:

You mean to tell me there is possible illegal activity surrounding with the purchase of a criminal outfit? I for one am shocked and outraged that an organization who would buy a website whose entire business model revolved around copyright infringement would even consider insider trading. :o

Oh, and no. Their business plan will utterly fail because the content producers won't pay them and they won't be able to pay the people bootlegging the material for them. If they have a board of directors and the board didn't approve of this, criminal charges should be filed and the culprit should be ousted.
so i assume google is now illegal..and yahoo....and msft?
cause they all have links to the same thing piratebay did.

so what does PB really do different again?
--
www.stopfcc.com I do not think the government needs to restrict free speech especially on a device that has an off knob.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644450 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:13:43 EDT Shocked, shocked I say http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644105
Oh, and no. Their business plan will utterly fail because the content producers won't pay them and they won't be able to pay the people bootlegging the material for them. If they have a board of directors and the board didn't approve of this, criminal charges should be filed and the culprit should be ousted.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Shocked-shocked-I-say-22644105 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:11:06 EDT