psafux
Got Grep?
VIP
join:2005-11-10
1 edit | 4 volts on a 120v service? (Resolved - kind of) I am trying to troubleshoot why my bathroom light/fan/heat unit does not work. I hooked up the unit directly to another outlet and it works fine so I figured the switch was shot.
I swapped out the switch and the fixture is still quite dead.
I pulled out my cheapo voltmeter which reads 4v from the power feed, the line that should be coming from the breaker box. I checked 5 or 6 other outlets to see if my voltmeter went to crap, since it is just a $10 unit. All other outlets read 119v-122v, including one outlet that is on the same wire from the circuit breaker.
Im not sure where to start troubleshooting why im getting 4v on the feed.
Do i need to call an electrician, or is there any 'common' causes that perhaps I can check into.
*** PARTIAL RESOLUTION ***
found a loose white wire in one of the junction boxes downstairs (theres about 10 of them, scattered about.) After getting that wire hooked up again, the switch registers 0 volts on the hot wire. So the 4 volts issue was resolved. I still have no power there, and plan on calling electrician. Thanks!
Thanks!
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
|
 Raphion
join:2000-10-14
Samsara | Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? I'd guess the neutral is open, and you're just seeing a bit of bleed to ground with that 4 volts. Check if you get normal voltage from hot to ground, if you do, it's definitely open neutral. | |
|
 |
psafux
Got Grep?
VIP
join:2005-11-10
1 edit | Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? Thanks guys, ill check that out.
Raphion: I could not get more than 4v out of several different ways of testing. I don't recall anymore if I tried hot to ground, I think so> Ill do more tomorrow.
The house was built in the early 30's, still has some 2 prong outlets :P We have been upgrading and bringing up to code as we go!
Tschmidt: Thanks for the detailed reply. I assume the switch and outlet are wired together. When the circuit breaker was turned off, everything went dead in the bathroom. All outlets, the vanity lights, I could not get 4v on the switch any longer.
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
|
| | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? said by psafux  :I assume the switch and outlet are wired together. When the circuit breaker was turned off, everything went dead in the bathroom. All outlets, the vanity lights, I could not get 4v on the switch any longer. Logically, your assumption makes sense. In reality, circuit breakers can be affected by other circuit breakers. I suggest you temporarily drop your assumption of a shared circuit and explore the possibility that your light/fan is on a different circuit with a failing breaker. | |
|
| | |
psafux
Got Grep?
VIP
join:2005-11-10
| Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? thanks for the reply. I have turned off every other breaker, short of the MAIN, and everything in the bathroom remained on, and 4 volts still registered at the switch in question.
Breaker #15 is the only circuit that turned off the bathroom in its entirety.
If I understand what you are saying, this would have ruled that out ?
Also - this morning I tested hot-ground, hot-neutral and both registered 4 volts. I am testing the wire not the terminal on the switch.
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
|
| | | | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? said by psafux :thanks for the reply. I have turned off every other breaker, short of the MAIN, and everything in the bathroom remained on, and 4 volts still registered at the switch in question. Breaker #15 is the only circuit that turned off the bathroom in its entirety. If I understand what you are saying, this would have ruled that out ? Also - this morning I tested hot-ground, hot-neutral and both registered 4 volts. I am testing the wire not the terminal on the switch. That's reassuring. Now you should go back to tschmidt's hypotheses. | |
|
|
Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Phantom current is what you are seeing. | |
|
LazMan
join:2003-03-26
Angus, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Sounds like you've got an "open" between the upstream power source, and the switch. I'd suggest pulling upstream recepticles, and checking the connections.
GFCI could be suspect; or check for burned/loose terminals, espically "backstabs"
Work carefull, breaker off... Don't assume something's dead, until you test it.
Laz | |
|
|
psafux
Got Grep?
VIP
join:2005-11-10
| Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? Lazman - thanks. i will check that out, I haven't pulled that outlet out yet, but i was thinking about it. Will do that over the weekend.
And oohhhhhhh don't worry, I will NOT work with live power :P When I was a child, I grabbed my dads screwdriver and stuck it into the light socket in the garage. fortunately I had grabbed a wooden handled driver :P Been extremely cautious ever since!
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
|
psafux
Got Grep?
VIP
join:2005-11-10
| did some more testing this morning.
on the switch, tested hot to ground again - 4 volts
on the switch, tested hot to neutral again - 4 volts
pulled the outlet out, there is only hot & neutral going the outlet (no ground, no other wires going anywhere else).
There does not appear to be any continuity between the switch and the outlet (multimeter registered infinity between the two). So the same circuit breaker controls both but they are not wired together it seems.
The electrical wires in the basement are a jungle, should be fun!
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
|
|
|
psafux
Got Grep?
VIP
join:2005-11-10
| Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? said by jack b :Digital multi-meters are not the best tool for troubleshooting line voltage house wiring, as you can see, you're getting (false) readings when there is no power on a circuit. thanks for the reply, everytime i tested with the power off, it read no voltage. it reads 4 volts with power applied to the circuit.
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
|
| |
Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: 4 volts on a 120v service?� That is because you are reading Phantom Voltage, which is caused by an open Neutral.� | |
|
| | |
psafux
Got Grep?
VIP
join:2005-11-10
| Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? Thanks, Greg, for the reply. That was my original thought as well.
Raphion made the comment prior "I'd guess the neutral is open, and you're just seeing a bit of bleed to ground with that 4 volts. Check if you get normal voltage from hot to ground, if you do, it's definitely open neutral."
I did check hot to ground, several times as of now, and its still 4 volts.
is it still possible to be an open neutral, despite raphions' comment?
THANKS!
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
|
| | | | 
Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Spring City, TN
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? it definitely sounds like an open neutral. You wouldn't get a reading of anything besides phantom voltage on hot to ground with that outlet since you also commented that there is no ground wire going to that outlet.
Putting aside that it sucks not having that ground (I'll assume it is old, no retrofitted wiring else its also a code violation), i would start hunting down where that neutral has come loose. | |
|
| | | | |
| | | | |
psafux
Got Grep?
VIP
join:2005-11-10
| Re: 4 volts on a 120v service? (Resolved - kind of) There is an outlet directly below the switch. That may be causing some confusion. The wires at the switch are the ones with the issue.
At the switch, there is a 'hot' wire, a neutral, and there is a ground wire. Then there are 3 wires that go to the fixture (heat/light/fan).
The outlet only has 2 wires, hot and neutral. No ground. the outlet works fine and near as I can tell is not connected to the switch.
I spent some time in the basement this morning, I found one of the junction boxes had a loose white wire. I got that reconnected and now cannot get *any* voltage at the switch, so the '4v' issue was resolved at least. The hot wire at the switch is completely dead, no power whatsoever. I don't feel like trying to track that issue down, since ive spent 3 weeks trying to figure out why it was registering 4 volts.
Thanks all for the help, I think ill be calling someone that knows a little more about this stuff =)
--
Yes. the cat in my avatar is indeed mine. | |
|
| | | | | | |
|
|
|
·
·
·