SirX
join:2007-12-24
| reply to mlerner
Re: Steam -- Concurrent Connection Surges
said by mlerner  :Trying sending a message to Deadpool, he can usually clear up these issues. A quick seach shows that he seems to be a Bell guy? This is an Eastlink issue so I am not sure he can help in this situation... |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON | reply to SirX
Re: Steam and Throttling
Ahh, didn't read that part in your message. For that matter I wasn't aware Eastlink was throttling. |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| reply to SirX
Re: Steam -- Concurrent Connection Surges
said by SirX :I talked to support again. They basically said, ya its throttled, there is nothing we can do. I asked if I could talke dto someone about getting Steam Unthrottled as I can't be the only one affected. They said, "nope, we can't change the throttling, sorry" So the answer is "to bad, there is nothing we can do." This makes me rather angry. Any luck here getting around their throttling? Your ISP throttles HTTP traffic? Doubtful.
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»[RFC] Connection / Speed Problems Checklist |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| reply to SirX
said by SirX :said by planiwa :have you thought of asking Steam for their explanation? Yes I have, the said I should have lots of bandwidth availble, try changed servers (which I did) and there was nothing they could do. said by planiwa :FWIW, I just did a ping probe and got 2% packet loss, with 100ms latency. Some say that the TCP throughput with 1% packet loss and 100ms latency is "nil" you are pinging their main website, not the content servers that the client downloads the data from. I have tried several of those and the speed doesn't change. Not at all. Which is why I am sure its throttled. Just did a ping probe from a Teksavvy site to the steam store site:
3% packet loss, 180ms RTT.
According to Mathis formula, that means a maximum troughput of 50kB/s.
Did you measure your own packet loss?
Did you read the article I recommended?
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»[RFC] Connection / Speed Problems Checklist |
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vonSchroeder
join:2004-11-12
Kingston, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
 ·Cogeco Cable
1 edit | In this case pinging the Steam store site does not really help.
The Store site is located in Washington State where Valve has its headquarters. But as has been mentioned, the content itself does not download from the same web server as the Store.
Valve uses Limelight Networks for content distribution as far as I know. Therefore, for content downloads you should be directed to the nearest Limelight server. If you traceroute cdn.steampowered.com it should take you to the nearest Limelight server. For Teksavvy customers like myself, the closest server is in Toronto, which is reached via TORIX. |
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vonSchroeder
join:2004-11-12
Kingston, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Cogeco Cable
1 edit | reply to SirX
SirX, you could try downloading a file from www.fileshack.com since they also use Limelight. I believe they cap at 500 KB/s for non-members and 750 KB/s for registered but non-paying members. Therefore you won't be able to max out your connection but you can at least check to see if you can get past the magic 475 KB/s mark. This will show you if the issue is somehow related to the speeds you can get from Limelight in general, as opposed to Steam in particular. |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| reply to vonSchroeder
So, from a teksavvy host, cdn.steampowered.com has a RTT of 15ms and no packet loss.
If my ISP were to tell me they throttle HTTP traffic, I would ask:
How high? 
I.E. what rate do they limit it to?
Let's recapitulate:
In his original message, OP writes:
quote:
Eastlink is my ISP. I have a 15Mb connection with them
I can download @ 1.8MB/s from a websites.
I cannot download a game or demo at more than 475KB/s from steam.
and later:
quote:
I talked to support again.
They basically said, ya its throttled, there is nothing we can do.
I asked if I could talke dto someone about getting Steam Unthrottled as I can't be the only one affected.
They said, "nope, we can't change the throttling, sorry"
Something seems to be missing.
Does Eastlink throttle all HTTP?
Or does it throttle Steam and Limewire?
Or is someone assuming that Steam content is distributed by P2P, rather than HTTP?
Or?
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»[RFC] Connection / Speed Problems Checklist |
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Fireblade
join:2008-08-27
St Catharines, ON | reply to SirX
Re: Steam and Throttling
Steam is defiantly not throttled, 1.1 MB/Sec via Toronto servers from Steam.
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I love fish sticks. I love putting fish sticks in my mouth. |
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urbanriot
join:2004-10-18
St Catharines, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to vonSchroeder
Re: Steam -- Concurrent Connection Surges
said by vonSchroeder :I think you are confusing two different aspects of Steam. The OP is about downloading of content. One major aspect of Steam is content distribution of games. This content, as far as I know, is downloaded from a single content server based on geographic region using a single HTTP stream (for each download in progress). Actually, I have a strong feeling they use different servers based on the content. When they had the Unreal 3 free weekend that everyone was in uproar over, since the majority of people (especially those in Canada) couldn't download them, I also bought Left 4 Dead. I could download Left 4 Dead but I could not download Unreal 3 along with everyone else... until I switched my servers to US and it came down, albeit slowly.
My experience ranges anywhere from 400 KB/s to 1.5 MB/s. I'm sure any fluctuations are on Valve's end. |
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Smalls
@gci.com
| reply to vonSchroeder
said by vonSchroeder :SirX, you could try downloading a file from www.fileshack.com since they also use Limelight. I believe they cap at 500 KB/s for non-members and 750 KB/s for registered but non-paying members. Therefore you won't be able to max out your connection but you can at least check to see if you can get past the magic 475 KB/s mark. This will show you if the issue is somehow related to the speeds you can get from Limelight in general, as opposed to Steam in particular. You might want to try downloading a file from bigdownload.com I have a 12 Mbit connection and always max it out downloading from bigdownload.com (about 1500k) their files are served from Limelight Networks also. |
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SirX
join:2007-12-24
| reply to Fireblade
Re: Steam and Throttling
said by Fireblade :Steam is defiantly not throttled, 1.1 MB/Sec via Toronto servers from Steam. Are you on Eastlink? |
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SirX
join:2007-12-24
| reply to vonSchroeder
Re: Steam -- Concurrent Connection Surges
said by vonSchroeder :SirX, you could try downloading a file from www.fileshack.com since they also use Limelight. I believe they cap at 500 KB/s for non-members and 750 KB/s for registered but non-paying members. Therefore you won't be able to max out your connection but you can at least check to see if you can get past the magic 475 KB/s mark. This will show you if the issue is somehow related to the speeds you can get from Limelight in general, as opposed to Steam in particular. I actually am a mercury member of shacknews and so get full bandwidth from Fileshack. A download from there goes at the full 1.8MB/s. This is the same for any download I make from a website that has lots of bandwidth. |
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SirX
join:2007-12-24
| reply to planiwa
I think its probably because Steam isn't using standard HTTP ports.
Here's a chunk of netstat -a when I am download stuff from steam:
I don't think I am assuming anything ,I am just telling you guys what I am having trouble with.
Maybe I am wrong and this is a whole different issue. But I am trying this from 2 different computers at 2 different locations using the same ISP ( I use Eastlink at home and @ work)
and the problem is the same.
said by planiwa :So, from a teksavvy host, cdn.steampowered.com has a RTT of 15ms and no packet loss. If my ISP were to tell me they throttle HTTP traffic, I would ask: How high? :-) I.E. what rate do they limit it to? Let's recapitulate: In his original message, OP writes: quote:
Eastlink is my ISP. I have a 15Mb connection with them
I can download @ 1.8MB/s from a websites.
I cannot download a game or demo at more than 475KB/s from steam.
and later: quote:
I talked to support again.
They basically said, ya its throttled, there is nothing we can do.
I asked if I could talke dto someone about getting Steam Unthrottled as I can't be the only one affected.
They said, "nope, we can't change the throttling, sorry"
Something seems to be missing. Does Eastlink throttle all HTTP? Or does it throttle Steam and Limewire? Or is someone assuming that Steam content is distributed by P2P, rather than HTTP? Or? |
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SirX
join:2007-12-24
| reply to urbanriot
You can manually change servers in Steam by clicking File --> Settings
The clicking the Download tab and changing your region (which is really the server location)
Doiing this does not change the speed for me.
Hey Planiwa why don't you download Steam for yourself and see how it works for you?
said by urbanriot :said by vonSchroeder :I think you are confusing two different aspects of Steam. The OP is about downloading of content. One major aspect of Steam is content distribution of games. This content, as far as I know, is downloaded from a single content server based on geographic region using a single HTTP stream (for each download in progress). Actually, I have a strong feeling they use different servers based on the content. When they had the Unreal 3 free weekend that everyone was in uproar over, since the majority of people (especially those in Canada) couldn't download them, I also bought Left 4 Dead. I could download Left 4 Dead but I could not download Unreal 3 along with everyone else... until I switched my servers to US and it came down, albeit slowly. My experience ranges anywhere from 400 KB/s to 1.5 MB/s. I'm sure any fluctuations are on Valve's end. |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| reply to SirX
Re: Steam Content Distribution Throttling by Eastlink?
said by SirX :I think its probably because Steam isn't using standard HTTP ports. You may be on to something. HTTP is not an IP protocol (like TCP, UDP, ICMP). For an ISP to tell the difference between a packet to/from ports 20700-20720 being part of "single connection HTTP-application" rather than a "excessively multi-connection P2P application", and then to treat the former as if it had been a properly "ported" HTTP application, the ISP would literally have to engage in DPI! I'm not sure that would be a good thing. Perhaps the Steam people might be better off using ports for their intended purpose -- e.g.: FTP?
BTW, we all make assumptions all the time, including the assumption that others do but "I" don't. And we rarely interpret the meaning of another's writing or speech exactly the same as the other.
We have ...
* OP who at first assumed steam content distribution is P2P
* Others who said it's HTTP
* Eastlink support staff who say it's throttled (are they assuming it's P2P?)
* Steam support staff who offer no explanation!
(Perhaps SirX really is the only one to experience this problem?)
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»[RFC] Connection / Speed Problems Checklist |
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SirX
join:2007-12-24
| What it is looking like is that they throttle anything that not HTTP. For instance if you look around you really only get 15MB/s on direct downloads.
From what I have read, news groups and FTP also appear to be throttled and now I have this other app that is throttled....
said by planiwa :You may be on to something. HTTP is not an IP protocol (like TCP, UDP, ICMP). For an ISP to tell the difference between a packet to/from ports 20700-20720 being part of "single connection HTTP-application" rather than a "excessively multi-connection P2P application", and then to treat the former as if it had been a properly "ported" HTTP application, the ISP would literally have to engage in DPI! I'm not sure that would be a good thing. Perhaps the Steam people might be better off using ports for their intended purpose -- e.g.: FTP? BTW, we all make assumptions all the time, including the assumption that others do but "I" don't. And we rarely interpret the meaning of another's writing or speech exactly the same as the other. We have ... * OP who at first assumed steam content distribution is P2P * Others who said it's HTTP * Eastlink support staff who say it's throttled (are they assuming it's P2P?) * Steam support staff who offer no explanation! (Perhaps SirX really is the only one to experience this problem?) |
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