freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10
| reply to dbsanfte
Re: Bell Internet Max 16 Fibre. is it really maxed ?
1) Accurate, today's fiber is capable of anything you can plug in the other end, although some fiber is better for long haul.
2) True I think
3) There are G.bond DSL modems, and some DSLAMs that support it, although unsure if Bell's vendor does on the hardware they have installed
4) You will never see 24Mbps ADSL2+ sync from a DSLAM outside a lab. Almost nobody is within 200m of the DSLAM without any disturbers. Furthermore, the cost of two ports + special hardware for the customer makes this silly when compared to VDSL2. That is two ports on each end costs more than VDSL2, which also has other advantages.
I think every CO has fiber, it's just the amount of it. If you're offered a 16Mbps product, it means you can be connected to an ADSL2+ DSLAM. Actual speeds as we all know will vary. |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to sbrook
i don't want to be bashing bell here... but the guy lied if he says you will only need a router. This would imply it is a true fiber deployment which bell can not do at this time.
I also wouldn't ecpect it anytime soon... If a year ago max speeds you got were 8megs chances are today your max speeds are ... 8 megs still. Bell rarely would upgrade the same area in such a short time span. |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | reply to rik
Well, unless we can get funding for the 3rd parties up the hilt to be a complete competitor to Bell, it's not going to happen. Providing complete overbuilt networks to remove Bell from the equation is a mega million dollar operation. |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON
·Acanac
| reply to sbrook
sbrook said:
"...5) 3rd party ISPs like Acanac cannot offer you the equivalent to Bell's MAX 16 products or other ADSL2+ products for reasons best known to Bell that they aren't forthcoming with to tell even the CRTC other than suspected lies."
ok I have to reply to this,(last time) my big fat mouth again. but I wish the acanacs, tekksavy's,... and the more the merrier, would take over our "vacant" retail ISP market.
Sure, Let the Bell's/Roger's/... make the Blue Chip stable dividends in a "wholesale" R&D upscale Network-back-bone technology based environment... yes, but for gawwd sakes, let the above and hopefully more Canadian retail ISP's deal and support us instead of these Bloated-leftover-corporate whales from a long-gone era.
That way, they can ALL make a "little" money, and we(cdn consumers) can save a "little" money, and this upwards push in network technology and R&D could come back and save us and offer greater future innovations, instead of biting us in the ____.
Yes, and I know that era very well thankyou.
ok, I slipped off my soapbox now.
cheers. |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON | reply to sbrook
ahh ok, thx sbrook, sry didn't see the earlier reply. -"refresh" does wonders sometimes.
thankyou. that's what I needed to hear for now?
But only Just! for now.
 |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| reply to rik
OK ... confusion reigns ...
1) Max 16 is a Bell product. I'm presuming he wants to change from Acanac's standard offering which can't do Max 16 to Bell.
2) To get Max 16 you need an ADSL2+ capable modem.
3) Bell will rent to you (whether you want to use Bell's ADSL2+ modem or not) a modem/router combo unit. Your rate includes the modem rental. No refund if you don't want their modem.
4) The modem/router combo units Bell commonly sells are "2wire" modems ... 2wire is a BRAND name ... not the number of wires required! (What a name to pick ... but it probably dates back to the time when many "point to point" modems needed 4 wires to get symmetrical speeds ... i.e. 1200 up and 1200 down! This was a LONG time ago!) All ADSL modems work on just the standard single pair (two wires  )
5) 3rd party ISPs like Acanac cannot offer you the equivalent to Bell's MAX 16 products or other ADSL2+ products for reasons best known to Bell that they aren't forthcoming with to tell even the CRTC other than suspected lies.
So to get the higher speed, you have to change to Bell and pay Bell's price and be subject to their terms and conditions. |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON
·Acanac
| reply to dbsanfte
you said:
"...Get an ST516, you can use DMT to adjust your SNR and boost your speed to your liking. I was able to squeeze an extra 2Mbits out of an interleaved line by lowering the snr from 9 to 4, with no effect on line stability (obviously this depends on your line)...."
Your talkin' squeezing 2 more Megs out of my exusting acanac DSL line ?, OR, out of a Max 16 setup ? I don't understand here.
Anyway, here is my facts right now, I've had acanac/dsl for over a year now, pretty stable at +5Mpbs, no problems. I'm close to the C.O.
But Lately I opened a ticket with Acanac who said Bell said due to line degradation they have to limit me to 4Mbps ?
So, I phone a Bell tech myself and they tested my line at 17Mbps capable ! -amazing eh?, in fact they(Bell) suggested I go with Max 16. - I know, amazing eh ? 
ya I know.
When I asked Bell why my existing line with acanac was downgraded to 4Mbps, and being so, how the ______ can they guarantee 16 Meg -when Bell told Acanac they couldn't even guarantee a lousy 4Mbps (even though I'm paying for +5M). ?
Now, up until recently, I've had +5Mbps with recorded bursts of well over 6.5 Mbps -just downloading stuff, except as I mentioned above for the last month or so.
But because I'm with a 3rd party DSL supplier like Acanac -well of course, Bell couldn't answer me. -low and behold.?
The whole reason I'm with Acanac is because its a little cheaper than Bell/sympatico and they(Acanac) are fairly reliable and good -I'm happy with acanac. Nuthin' against Bell -but comon !
Now, with 3 or more potentisal users, I might need morw BW, hence, why I started this thread in hopes of getting some performance questions answered in regards to Bell's Max 16 .
thats all.
maybe I'm gettin lost between the technical lines here, but I'm just tryin to do some homework here before I make any "rash" decision. Also, if you're going to give me some advice fine, I definitely appreciate it, always.
no worries, I may not understand fully the 1st time so I might have to ask more questions noob-sounding or not ok?
Sounds like a "Forum" to me.
cheers.
Rick. |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON
·Acanac
| reply to carnesr
Hi carnesr,
you said:
"...here it is plain and simple, to get max 16 you need an adsl 2+ modem, then oone we use most often is the 2wire wich is a modem and wireless router in one, thats what he ment buy you only need a router,..."
-> I still don't understand you. Are you saying I don't need Max 16 to get Max 16 ? Or, do you mean after I get Max 16 this is what I should do ?
If I do or don't ? get Max 16 then I get an adsl2+ modem, the 2-wire kind ? uh?
Is there any other ?
'cause if there is I'm sh_it outta luck because I don't have 4-wire to my house right now, I have 2-wire copper.-(from the pole to my house is only 2-wire).
Also, Are you saying if I get Max 16 will Bell install a 4-wire copper line to my house ?
So, if that is what you meant, then I can use the other 2-wires for another modem/router ?
-its not your spelling, I'm just trying to determine your methos of explanation here.
-don't get me wrong I'm jus tryin' to ubderstand.
...continuing...
you said:
"...bell does not run fiber to the poll or the house, fiber runst to the CO then coper to the house, in areas that are to far from the co, there is either a remote co that would be fiber fed, or a stinger(box on the side of cross box) that is fiber fed, as for the cap and throttleing, max 16 has 100 gig cap after that you pay extra by the gig, at the moment no more then an extra 30 a month, throttle from what i have seen usually only occurs in the afternoon till early mourning..."
-well the rest of this is definitely plain and simple. back to what ?
Thanks.
=3 |
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Harleyguy
join:2008-02-01
Waterdown, ON
| reply to carnesr
said by carnesr  :here it is plain and simple, to get max 16 you need an adsl 2+ modem, then one we use most often is the 2wire wich is a modem and wireless router in one, thats what he ment buy you only need a router, bell does not run fiber to the poll or the house, fiber runst to the CO then copPer to the house, in areas that are to far from the co, there is either a remote co that would be fiber fed, or a stinger(box on the side of cross box) that is fiber fed, as for the cap and throttleing, max 16 has 100 gig cap after that you pay extra by the gig, at the moment no more then an extra 30 a month, throttle from what i have seen usually only occurs in the afternoon till early mourning caresr to the resue
thanks CARSNER |
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carnesr
join:2002-11-16
Sault Ste Marie, ON
| reply to rik
here it is plain and simple, to get max 16 you need an adsl 2+ modem, then oone we use most often is the 2wire wich is a modem and wireless router in one, thats what he ment buy you only need a router, bell does not run fiber to the poll or the house, fiber runst to the CO then coper to the house, in areas that are to far from the co, there is either a remote co that would be fiber fed, or a stinger(box on the side of cross box) that is fiber fed, as for the cap and throttleing, max 16 has 100 gig cap after that you pay extra by the gig, at the moment no more then an extra 30 a month, throttle from what i have seen usually only occurs in the afternoon till early mourning |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON | reply to dbsanfte
that what I was thinkin' err along those similar lines, geeez, these guys really have no "excuse" to even throtlle us. !
-ouch. |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON
·Acanac
| reply to dbsanfte
right now, I've got an ST780 ('cause we have acanac 3rd-paty VOIP as well), but with 2 more heavy users a bigger pipe might be needed.
I'm pretty sure my DSL is interleaved too, and the ST516 is very similar to my ST780 -I'll look into your suggestion thx. |
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dbsanfte
join:2005-03-15
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| reply to rik
Get an ST516, you can use DMT to adjust your SNR and boost your speed to your liking. I was able to squeeze an extra 2Mbits out of an interleaved line by lowering the snr from 9 to 4, with no effect on line stability (obviously this depends on your line). |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON
·Acanac
| reply to sbrook
k, thanks sbrook.
as usual, I've learned more on this forum about isp stuff than I have talking direct with their suppliers.
anyway, I've been hunting around reading more on these forums, and one fella had 22Meg capable line test and yet he only got 10 15 Meg total, and he was really close to the CO, so it looks like my 17Meg(max line test only) blah blah will probably end up a lot worse, then again, like everyone said its tooo situational to really answer someone by saying oh ya MAX is great -get it.
that is definitely NOT always true.
I still hope for this fibre potential gets a lot better though-as everyone does, but for now maybe another separate acanac connection for the kids will also do just fine. Its cheap enough that they can pay for it themselves. |
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dbsanfte
join:2005-03-15
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| reply to rik
This is a tad offtopic, but it came to mind while reading this thread.
Facts:
1) Fiber has insane bandwidth, only really dependent on the equipment you have on each end.
2) Most drops to houses include at least two copper pairs.
3) A DSL modem could be made that could bond these two pairs automagically in a way that a large ISP could deploy. In fact, some are, and if they were mass-ordered, they'd fit the bill for...
4) 48Mbps bonded ADSL2+ would compete reasonably with what DOCSIS 3.0 is bringing down the pipes. |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| reply to rik
This is fibre to some pole near you where it drops to a remote box that has DSLAMs in it for ADSL2+.
FTTN Fibre to the node has lots of variant names ... Fibre to the pole, Fibre to the curb, Fibre to the neighbourhood, Fibre to the street. Usually it's all the same thing. It's fibre to a remote where they combine many DSL customers together all who are within distance for the speed advertised, and sends it all up a fibre to the CO.
You DO need a modem ... one that is ADSL2+ compliant ... and Bell's Modem-Router combos are just such devices.
The problem you're suffering is the typical lack of real knowledge of the Bell folks in call centres. |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON
·Acanac
| reply to rik
Now I'm curious;
I phoned them back again, and Bell explained that for my Max 16 that I don't need a Modem, just a Router ?
ok, now I'm confused. ?
Does this mean a few hundred meters from my house there is a wireless relay box or something. ?
FTTN is "...to the curb..." but that obvisouly depends on situational physical characteristics of the particular setup in my area.
Is this all true?
-I gotta hone-up on my networkin', man I really feel behind the times now |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON
·Acanac
| reply to grayfox
I just phoned Bell and asked to speak to a Bell Technician (not salesman) regarding Max16 and my availability in my area. K1L5Y3.
He did the line test from whatever tool they use and said I have 17 Meg capable fibre connection..."
I asked him as direct as I could regarding Fibre from C.O. to my pole ? yes or no ?
He explained that the C.O.'s are indeed fibred, (FTTN ?)..., and that "...my area recently(as of 7 months ago) now has fibre to the telphone pole..."
I find this odd, because this is Vanier and my house is like 100 years old and the telephone poles look even older
however, carrying on,...
ok, he wouldn't really say "YES", and it may have been just the NewDehli-sales-dance as even the Techs today may be told by Bell to say ? I dunno, anyway no disrespect intended to anyone plz. -just Bell sales.
Sorry, I'm a bit new to all this FTTN, I do know that when I had a dedicated Dry-Lopp setup by Bell last year they tested my line at around +8Mbps, now its technically 17 Mbps.
-I appreciate all the info from all you guys so far.
its very helpful.
bottom-line:
Being that there will be now 3 to 4 of us sharing this (and the young one loves downloading Movies all the time ....and now me too.) -this is why I'm thinkin about it.
But, as some have honestly mentioned, bottom-line the 100 Gig limit and more than "obvious" throttling practices by Bell may keep this prohibitive to me -not sure yet.
"Well, go Find out the hard way..." -as dad used to say.
chers
Rick. |
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rik
join:2008-05-25
Vanier, ON | reply to sbrook
ahh ok, that explains why my buddy in London now says "na na na na na"
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| reply to rik
for all those telling us how advanced other countries are, in the DSLR news are reports that BT (in the UK) is just introducing FTTN/FTTC technology. (Fibre to the node/cabinet/curb etc).
In general due to the layout of the phone network in the UK and population concentration, they've had higher speeds on direct CO connections than here in N. America so haven't bothered with FTTN until now. |
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