dslreports logo
site
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search Topic:
uniqs
4122
share rss forum feed


EliteData
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Long Island,
kudos:7

1 recommendation

[video] Freight train VS Tornado



DataDoc
My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Martinsburg, WV

1 edit
Cool.

jrock444

join:2004-11-30
Wilmington, NC
reply to EliteData
ummmmm.....

WOW



ProtusMose
Immortal. Eternal.
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Bellevue, NE
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to EliteData
Tornado 1 - Freight Train 0


truck562
Premium
join:2000-08-03
Smithtown, NY

1 edit
Wow, crazy stuff. Almost expected an explosion when the tank car came up on the engine.


Rich84

@cox.net
reply to EliteData
That wasn't a tornado. It's winter time. Look at the trees, there are no leaves.

jrock444

join:2004-11-30
Wilmington, NC
said by Rich84 :

That wasn't a tornado. It's winter time. Look at the trees, there are no leaves.
I don't know if what happens in the video is due to a tornado or not.

However, tornadoes occur during every month of the year. I can remember as a kid spending one christmas eve in the storm cellar because of tornado warnings.


N10Cities
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Fort Smith, AR
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to Rich84
said by Rich84 :

That wasn't a tornado. It's winter time. Look at the trees, there are no leaves.
I usually ignore anon posts, but at least here in Arkansas, tornadoes are quite frequent in the winter months.

Here is a link to an NWS page about a large tornado outbreak on Feb 5 2008 in Arkansas that unfortunately killled several people....

»www.srh.noaa.gov/lzk/?n=svr0208. ··· 0208.htm


VioletVenom
Lets go Gators
Premium
join:2002-01-02
Gainesville, FL
National Geo channel actually had a show on that outbreak, I caught it a few weeks ago. Wasn't only Arkansas that got nailed... "On February 5th 2008 Super Tuesday 57 people lost their lives as 87 tornadoes devastated 5 states. It was Americas deadliest tornado outbreak in nearly a quarter of a century."

»channel.nationalgeographic.com/e ··· Overview


Jeffrey
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Long Island
kudos:3
reply to EliteData
I got surprised twice there. I didn't think as Tornado could really lift a train of the tracks. Second, I forgot about the rest of the momentum from the cars that didn't get derailed---that tanker coming up quick looked scary.


captokita
Premium
join:2005-02-22
Calabash, NC
reply to EliteData
Didn't look like a tornado - strong gust of wind perhaps, but it didn't look like a tornado. Pretty impressive though!


Mats
Here kitty and the chimp. Smash
Premium
join:2002-03-16
kudos:1
said by captokita:

Didn't look like a tornado - strong gust of wind perhaps, but it didn't look like a tornado. Pretty impressive though!
Strong gust of wind? Look at the trees in the background around a minute into the video.

Something a lil more happened than a strong gust of wind. Especially since it caused the train to derail.


Smatchimo
Professional Genuine Image Verifier
Premium
join:2004-08-20
Walnut Creek, CA
it only "derailed" because it blew over. its a giant box, not exactly aerodynamic.... notice how the tank car had no problem going onward? if the whole train was cylindrical it wouldn't have happened.
--
By all means marry. Get a good wife, and you'll become happy. Get a bad one, and you'll become a philosopher. -Socrates


ProtusMose
Immortal. Eternal.
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Bellevue, NE
kudos:4
Reviews:
·ooma

1 edit
Aerodynamic or not, a loaded box car is 90 tons. Empty is still 30 tons.

Granted I'm no engineering major; however, I'd love to know how strong of a "gust of wind" it takes to blow over 180,000 lbs.

A 1,000 sq ft house weighs about 60 tons. Do you think if sat up on a 5 foot platform a strong gust of wind could toss it off?
*edited to change bow to blow*
--
Blogsaus "The same crowd that cheers at your triumphant entry will be the ones that crucify you in the end. Consider this: the very thing that is worth dying for will be the very thing they hate you for - Andrew Schwab


EliteData
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Long Island,
kudos:7
reply to EliteData
looks like the cars behind the camera got toppled over as i hear the engineer release the brakes before the car in the camera view starts to topple over
--


Mats
Here kitty and the chimp. Smash
Premium
join:2002-03-16
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Smatchimo
said by Smatchimo:

it only "derailed" because it blew over. its a giant box, not exactly aerodynamic....
No shit. And it was more than just a gust of wind.
said by Smatchimo:

notice how the tank car had no problem going onward? if the whole train was cylindrical it wouldn't have happened.
You couldnt be more wrong. Yes the tank kept going forward. How do you explain why the box cars behind the tank car kept going forward as well?

michigandave

join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI

1 edit
reply to EliteData
Let me respond to a couple of posts made in this thread.

One link I found states that a minimum wind speed of 125mph will derail a train which would rate as a EF2 tornado minimum. One train in China derailed from ~90mph winds. Hartley, Texas May 2004 a F0 tornado derailed 15 cars of a train.

Now, going off of CSX's website, their dimension of their largest boxcar is roughly ~67' 7" L x ~13' 0" H (100 ton rating). The best weight of an empty boxcar of this size I could find is around 31 tons.

Going with a 100mph wind and the dimensions of a 100 ton boxcar, the profile of the boxcar would encounter a wind load of around 12 tons. 125mph (EF2 tornado) winds would put a wind load of around 19 tons.

Not an engineer -train driver or otherwise- but I suspect 12 tons of wind pressure pushing on the entire side profile of an empty 31 ton car would being about some serious consequences considering the higher center of gravity and that the car is supported by 4 wheels that contact the rails at a theoretical point of tangency. And this is at minimum speeds found in straight-line winds or EF0-EF1 tornadoes.

Sure there are tons of variables that can be kicked around like type of car, the load it was carrying, etc but the point I am trying to make is that is probably doesn't take a lot to push over an empty car. Not knowing the location or date I can't find any information of what this train encountered. Straight line winds or tornado (and at what rating)?

Watching the video, at 1:00-1:03 it appears the trees on the right are toppling over on top of the train. I believe around 1:10 the car in view is pulled down by the cars behind it already being dragged along the side of the road grade. Wind load already in factor, it makes me wonder if the trees are actually falling over, and if so, what role that played into the derailment.

Just thinking out loud........bash away.

ADD: It's obvious the train derailed somewhere in the middle of the train. The cars that are blown over are being dragged by the cars in front of it but the cars behind it aren't as affected by the derailment in front of them since the kinetic energy just pushes any derailed cars partially in it's path out of the way. The cylindrical car wasn't affected by wind load nearly as much as the wind travels around the car more easily. It wasn't the weakest link in the derailment and simply pushed through the toppled cars. The point of derailment was highly localized and toppling winds affected only the area of the coal cars and/or the cars behind are loaded with freight thus more resistant to perpendicular wind load.

michigandave

join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI
reply to EliteData
All this over a simple and sweet video of a train falling down.
--



DownTheShore
RIP tmpchaos
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:14
reply to EliteData
Just wondered why the engineer didn't slow down or stop if he saw a tornado up ahead, rather than just keep barreling into the area...


rds24a
Teach Your Children
Premium
join:2000-12-13
Newton Upper Falls, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
It can take on the order of miles to stop a loaded freight train. If it was a downburst and not a tornado, he wouldn't have seen it coming anyway.

Same thing happened in the 1974 Xenia Ohio F-5. Portion of a freight train was picked up off the tracks and deposited a short distance away on buildings. Engineer perished, if I recall.
--
All hail JoePa


ProtusMose
Immortal. Eternal.
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Bellevue, NE
kudos:4
Reviews:
·ooma
That's a plausible possibility I hadn't though of. A micro burst would have the energy potential to do this. Windspeed of 150mph+

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microburst

--
Blogsaus "The same crowd that cheers at your triumphant entry will be the ones that crucify you in the end. Consider this: the very thing that is worth dying for will be the very thing they hate you for - Andrew Schwab

michigandave

join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI
Very possible. The wind and debris seem to be coming from the right and blowing to the left throughout the entire video. If it was a tornado one would think there would be more swirling of debris or changing direction of wind.
--



ixNay
Premium
join:2002-04-12
USA
reply to ProtusMose
Here is a story of train cars blown off the tracks.
»gcdailyworld.com/story/1548359.h ··· 359.html


Smatchimo
Professional Genuine Image Verifier
Premium
join:2004-08-20
Walnut Creek, CA
reply to Mats
they were fully loaded? why the hostility?


rds24a
Teach Your Children
Premium
join:2000-12-13
Newton Upper Falls, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to EliteData
Here's the story:

»www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/?n=20080107 ··· 80107tor

EF-2 Tornado, northern IL, 1/7/08

Good call on the winter observation!
--
All hail JoePa


seaquake
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-23
Millersville, MD
TWC spotlighted this a couple of days ago. Amazing how youtube videos now make the news over a year after they were taken.


neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House Net..
reply to jrock444
said by jrock444:

said by Rich84 :

That wasn't a tornado. It's winter time. Look at the trees, there are no leaves.
I don't know if what happens in the video is due to a tornado or not.

However, tornadoes occur during every month of the year. I can remember as a kid spending one christmas eve in the storm cellar because of tornado warnings.
Not that being in Florida makes a difference, but we had a tornado outbreak that was on Christmas Eve!!!!

I remember that as the headline of the newspaper the next day was "Twistmas"
--
"F is for Fire that burns down the whole town...
U is for Uranium...... Bombs...
N is for NO SURVIVORS!!!!!" Sheldon Plankton


Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1
reply to truck562
said by truck562:

Wow, crazy stuff. Almost expected an explosion when the tank car came up on the engine.
Yeah me too, I seen those cars coming up and was like "holy shit" thinking about all that weight rolling up that fast. Looks like it deflected most of the impact.

--
20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com

spoda

join:2002-03-27
Port Orchard, WA
reply to EliteData
It's true!!! A tornado DOES sound like a freight train.......

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to EliteData
i take it some of the sparking was also the brakes being auto applied when air pressure was lost due to being severed from the loco.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports