Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to IllIlIlllIll
Re: [video] Freight train VS Tornado
i take it some of the sparking was also the brakes being auto applied when air pressure was lost due to being severed from the loco.
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spoda
join:2002-03-27
Port Orchard, WA | reply to IllIlIlllIll
It's true!!! A tornado DOES sound like a freight train.......  |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to truck562
said by truck562  :Wow, crazy stuff. Almost expected an explosion when the tank car came up on the engine. Yeah me too, I seen those cars coming up and was like "holy shit" thinking about all that weight rolling up that fast. Looks like it deflected most of the impact.
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neonhomer
Honoray Mythbuster
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join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
clubs:
 ·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to jrock444
said by jrock444 :said by Rich84 :
That wasn't a tornado. It's winter time. Look at the trees, there are no leaves.
I don't know if what happens in the video is due to a tornado or not. However, tornadoes occur during every month of the year. I can remember as a kid spending one christmas eve in the storm cellar because of tornado warnings.  Not that being in Florida makes a difference, but we had a tornado outbreak that was on Christmas Eve!!!!
I remember that as the headline of the newspaper the next day was "Twistmas"
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seaquake
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-23
Millersville, MD
clubs:  | reply to rds24a
TWC spotlighted this a couple of days ago. Amazing how youtube videos now make the news over a year after they were taken. |
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rds24a
Teach Your Children
Premium
join:2000-12-13
Springboro, OH
clubs: | reply to IllIlIlllIll
Here's the story:
»www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/?n=20080107tor
EF-2 Tornado, northern IL, 1/7/08
Good call on the winter observation!
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All hail JoePa |
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Smatchimo
Professional Genuine Image Verifier
Premium
join:2004-08-20
Walnut Creek, CA | reply to Mats
they were fully loaded? why the hostility? |
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ixNay
Premium
join:2002-04-12
USA
clubs: | reply to ProtusMose
Here is a story of train cars blown off the tracks.
»gcdailyworld.com/story/1548359.html |
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michigandave
join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to ProtusMose
Very possible. The wind and debris seem to be coming from the right and blowing to the left throughout the entire video. If it was a tornado one would think there would be more swirling of debris or changing direction of wind.
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ProtusMose
Say hi to your mother for me.
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Bellevue, NE
·Cox HSI
| reply to rds24a
That's a plausible possibility I hadn't though of. A micro burst would have the energy potential to do this. Windspeed of 150mph+
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microburst
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rds24a
Teach Your Children
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join:2000-12-13
Springboro, OH
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to DownTheShore
It can take on the order of miles to stop a loaded freight train. If it was a downburst and not a tornado, he wouldn't have seen it coming anyway.
Same thing happened in the 1974 Xenia Ohio F-5. Portion of a freight train was picked up off the tracks and deposited a short distance away on buildings. Engineer perished, if I recall.
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All hail JoePa |
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DownTheShore
Maddie Knows Poopie
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
clubs: | reply to IllIlIlllIll
Just wondered why the engineer didn't slow down or stop if he saw a tornado up ahead, rather than just keep barreling into the area... |
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michigandave
join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI | reply to IllIlIlllIll
All this over a simple and sweet video of a train falling down.
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michigandave
join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI
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1 edit | reply to IllIlIlllIll
Let me respond to a couple of posts made in this thread.
One link I found states that a minimum wind speed of 125mph will derail a train which would rate as a EF2 tornado minimum. One train in China derailed from ~90mph winds. Hartley, Texas May 2004 a F0 tornado derailed 15 cars of a train.
Now, going off of CSX's website, their dimension of their largest boxcar is roughly ~67' 7" L x ~13' 0" H (100 ton rating). The best weight of an empty boxcar of this size I could find is around 31 tons.
Going with a 100mph wind and the dimensions of a 100 ton boxcar, the profile of the boxcar would encounter a wind load of around 12 tons. 125mph (EF2 tornado) winds would put a wind load of around 19 tons.
Not an engineer -train driver or otherwise- but I suspect 12 tons of wind pressure pushing on the entire side profile of an empty 31 ton car would being about some serious consequences considering the higher center of gravity and that the car is supported by 4 wheels that contact the rails at a theoretical point of tangency. And this is at minimum speeds found in straight-line winds or EF0-EF1 tornadoes.
Sure there are tons of variables that can be kicked around like type of car, the load it was carrying, etc but the point I am trying to make is that is probably doesn't take a lot to push over an empty car. Not knowing the location or date I can't find any information of what this train encountered. Straight line winds or tornado (and at what rating)?
Watching the video, at 1:00-1:03 it appears the trees on the right are toppling over on top of the train. I believe around 1:10 the car in view is pulled down by the cars behind it already being dragged along the side of the road grade. Wind load already in factor, it makes me wonder if the trees are actually falling over, and if so, what role that played into the derailment.
Just thinking out loud........bash away.
ADD: It's obvious the train derailed somewhere in the middle of the train. The cars that are blown over are being dragged by the cars in front of it but the cars behind it aren't as affected by the derailment in front of them since the kinetic energy just pushes any derailed cars partially in it's path out of the way. The cylindrical car wasn't affected by wind load nearly as much as the wind travels around the car more easily. It wasn't the weakest link in the derailment and simply pushed through the toppled cars. The point of derailment was highly localized and toppling winds affected only the area of the coal cars and/or the cars behind are loaded with freight thus more resistant to perpendicular wind load. |
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Mats
Here kitty and the chimp. Smash
Premium
join:2002-03-16
1 edit | reply to Smatchimo
said by Smatchimo :it only "derailed" because it blew over. its a giant box, not exactly aerodynamic.... No shit. And it was more than just a gust of wind.
said by Smatchimo : notice how the tank car had no problem going onward? if the whole train was cylindrical it wouldn't have happened. You couldnt be more wrong. Yes the tank kept going forward. How do you explain why the box cars behind the tank car kept going forward as well? |
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IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Lindenhurst, NY | reply to IllIlIlllIll
looks like the cars behind the camera got toppled over as i hear the engineer release the brakes before the car in the camera view starts to topple over
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ProtusMose
Say hi to your mother for me.
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join:2001-10-03
Bellevue, NE
·Cox HSI
1 edit | reply to Smatchimo
Aerodynamic or not, a loaded box car is 90 tons. Empty is still 30 tons.
Granted I'm no engineering major; however, I'd love to know how strong of a "gust of wind" it takes to blow over 180,000 lbs.
A 1,000 sq ft house weighs about 60 tons. Do you think if sat up on a 5 foot platform a strong gust of wind could toss it off?
*edited to change bow to blow*
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Smatchimo
Professional Genuine Image Verifier
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join:2004-08-20
Walnut Creek, CA
·Comcast
| reply to Mats
it only "derailed" because it blew over. its a giant box, not exactly aerodynamic.... notice how the tank car had no problem going onward? if the whole train was cylindrical it wouldn't have happened.
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Mats
Here kitty and the chimp. Smash
Premium
join:2002-03-16
| reply to captokita
said by captokita :Didn't look like a tornado - strong gust of wind perhaps, but it didn't look like a tornado. Pretty impressive though! Strong gust of wind? Look at the trees in the background around a minute into the video.
Something a lil more happened than a strong gust of wind. Especially since it caused the train to derail. |
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captokita
Premium
join:2005-02-22
Calabash, NC | reply to IllIlIlllIll
Didn't look like a tornado - strong gust of wind perhaps, but it didn't look like a tornado. Pretty impressive though! |
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