Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... in VOIP Tech Chat

Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... in VOIP Tech Chat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22652471 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:25:47 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:25:47 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22664824 PX Eliezer : Keep in mind you don't have to use just one provider.

For example, you could use Voip.MS for domestic calls, because they offer 911 service.

You could still use CallWithUs for international calls, for their cheaper international rates.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22664824 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:29:19 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22664347 voip_user :

said by Tampa304

said by svoip_user :
1. CallCentric - 2cents/minute for US and 3 or 3.5 cents/minute for India
2. Voip.ms - 1cent/minute for US and 3.5 cents/minute for India
3. CallWithUs - 1cent/minute for US and 2 cents/minute for India

Put together an estimate of how many out US/India minutes you need and we see what works best for you.

Note: Some of providers i mentioned (callwithus) will need you to be fairly familiar with setting up ATA. Also they do not offer 911 and cannot port in numbers. Read up reviews on this site

If you use 1500 outgoing US Minutes you might be better off taking the $20 unlimited plan from CallCentric.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22664347 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:03:56 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22664229 anon : Their international rates are right on their website:
»www.ooma.com/learn/ooma_internat···alls.php
»www.ooma.com/international-rates-popup.php

Country Code Area/City Code Country/City Rate Per Minute
91 India $ 0.099
91 80 India - Bangalore $ 0.159
91 22 India - Bombay $ 0.159
91 40 India - Hyderbad $ 0.085
91 16 India - Punjab $ 0.159
91 9 India - Mobile $ 0.175

Here are more rates for India from other VSP's:
»www.comparevoipproviderrates.com···led=0091]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22664229 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:42:51 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22664040 Tampa304 :

said by svoip_user :
1. CallCentric - 2cents/minute for US and 3 or 3.5 cents/minute for India
2. Voip.ms - 1cent/minute for US and 3.5 cents/minute for India
3. CallWithUs - 1cent/minute for US and 2 cents/minute for India

Put together an estimate of how many out US/India minutes you need and we see what works best for you.

Great. this helps!

Assuming, we make about 1500 min in outgoing calls(within U.S) and 500 min in outgoing calls(to India and other countries)

CallCentric: $30 + 17.50 = $47.50
Voip.ms : $15 + 17.50 = $32.50
CallWithus : $15 + 10.00 = $25.00
ALLVOI : $0 + 24.99 = $24.99(~$32 w/taxes)

Ooma : $0 + $50(10 cents per min to India) = $50
Ooma : $0 + $10(International calling cards) = ~$10

My opinion on Ooma's survivability:

1. Ooma is probably making some $ by selling the hardware.
2. Ooma will make money from users making International Calls.
3. Ooma is making money from premium services currently.

4. Ooma may start to charge a monthly fee down the road. However, could be as low as $5? ( Remember, Verizon and AT&T
have retention monthly residential plans that begin at $5 - Just google it)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22664040 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:10:28 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22663254 voip_user : 1. CallCentric - 2cents/minute for US and 3 or 3.5 cents/minute for India
2. Voip.ms - 1cent/minute for US and 3.5 cents/minute for India
3. CallWithUs - 1cent/minute for US and 2 cents/minute for India

Put together an estimate of how many outgoing US/India minutes you need and we see what works best for you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22663254 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:56:04 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22662426 pandora : We all know you compulsively despise Ooma ... so?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22662426 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:35:58 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22662320 DogFace05 : We all know that you're compulsively enamored with Ooma, and that's fine. To each their own. However, there's no need to put words in other people's mouths. Nowhere in his post did prestonlewis claim that MJ in any way shape or form was "viable". Rather, if anything, he appears to also have expressed scepticism of their viability: "I don't see how their current business model can be self-sustaining, similar to many critics of MJ."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22662320 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:19:00 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22661307 pandora : Ooma is a private company, as such its books are private. This is the case with virtually all private companies. Including MagicJack.

I wouldn't confuse cash flow with profitability. Ooma is undoubtedly about to ramp up production on the Telo, and needed cash. It is unlikely they would have received their new cash infusion without viability.

The Ooma plan so far seems to pull in about $25 per year per customer from premium subscription fees. It also seems to pull in about $125-$145 for the sale of the box. Monetized over a 5 year anticipated life of the Ooma hub, this would produce an income of about $50 per year per customer.

I don't know if any VOIP company is viable charging $50 per year per customer. I don't know if Ooma in particular is viable at that price. Time will tell.

What I do know is that the post I responded to, claiming Ooma had no income, when it has more than MagicJack and which claimed MagicJack was viable and Ooma not seemed a bit off the mark to me.

The question IMO is can any company, and can Ooma in particular, be viable at about $50 per year per customer?
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22661307 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:29:45 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22661096 anon : Ooma certainly seems to be able to get funding:

»www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco···y20.html

I think that the system is terrific - stable, with good sound quality. I also like that you can hear the messages being left on its answering machine.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22661096 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:54:31 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659796 userofdsl : The problem with ooma's business plan is that it is not transparent, leaving one to guess about what is going on, based on partial information and inferences such as VC participation.

On the internet, one can find interviews with ooma executives that heavily imply that the business plan is viable, and one can also find analyses that heavily imply that the business plan is not viable. Ooma claims that they are on track for profitability this year; a recent story claimed that before the most recent cash infusion, they had very little cash left.

Fear/hope about their viability is rampant, even on their own forums.

Other than fear of revealing unfavorable information, is there something that prevents ooma, or any other company, from making complete public disclosure, on a continuing basis, of their finances? In the age of the internet, this should be easy enough to do if a company desired to do it.

Public companies are already required to make some level of disclosure, but not necessarily to a level that would provide ideal transparency. Ooma and most VoIP providers are private companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659796 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:56:37 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659414 pandora :

said by prestonlewis

:

My issue with Ooma is their business plan. They generate revenue by selling you the Ooma device and by any additional services they can bill you for. At least MJ charges you at least $20/year.

I don't see how their current business model can be self-sustaining, similar to many critics of MJ. At some point, they will have met the market's demands for their product and they will not be selling any (or at least few) of their devices to generate revenue. What will happen then?

Ooma claims about 25% of their customers enroll in the premium plan. The lowest cost for the premium plan is about $100 per year. With 1/4 paying $100 per year, the average works out to a per customer charge of $25 per year.

The $25 Ooma claims to get per year on average for a customer is more than the $20 MagicJack gets per customer. Yet you consider MagicJack Viable getting $20, and Ooma not viable getting $25. The up front cost of a MagicJack is $20, the up front cost of an Ooma Scout system is $250. I assume Ooma recovers more up front than MagicJack.

Would you care to tell me how you can decide that MagicJack which gets less per year per customer and less up front per sale is viable, but Ooma which gets more per customer per year and a lot more up front somehow isn't viable?

Thanks!
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659414 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:46:22 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659386 prestonlewis : My issue with Ooma is their business plan. They generate revenue by selling you the Ooma device and by any additional services they can bill you for. At least MJ charges you at least $20/year.

I don't see how their current business model can be self-sustaining, similar to many critics of MJ. At some point, they will have met the market's demands for their product and they will not be selling any (or at least few) of their devices to generate revenue. What will happen then?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659386 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:32:48 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659316 userofdsl : I find that the G711 codec sounds as good as my landline, and would rather not use anything less good.

The codec normally used by ooma doesn't sound as good as G711, although it's better than G729a or a cell phone.

Ooma lets you dial *99 before a call to get G711, intended to support fax use. In my brief tests of ooma, I could hear the difference. Ooma mentions this on their web site.

I use a good headset that makes the level of audio quality pretty obvious.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659316 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:50:53 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22656008 nitzan :

said by garys_2k

:

Future-Nine seems to charge about 5.9 cents/minute for calls to India

Actually, this is the white rate. Our grey rate is 3.4c/minute. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22656008 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:58:11 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22655153 garys_2k :

said by Tampa304

:

I don't...Outgoing depends..anywhere between 1500 min to 2500 min per month.

You should be good with most any "unlimited" plan, where caps of 3000 minutes or more are the norm.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22655153 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:42:36 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22654691 Tampa304 :

said by dcm :
Do you truly need "unlimited" U.S. outgoing? What is your monthly average for U.S. outgoing?

I don't...Outgoing depends..anywhere between 1500 min to 2500 min per month.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22654691 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:53:41 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22654185 garys_2k :

said by dcm

said by garys_2k

:

Future-Nine seems to charge about 5.9 cents/minute for calls to India, plus their domestic U.S. calls are 1 cent/minute on a pay as you go plan. Porting your number costs $25.

Add $5 for DID + $1 for E911 (optional).

Correct!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22654185 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:16:22 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22654129 voipdabbler : I bought Ooma this spring rather than renewing the contract with my former primary VOIP provider (I had been with them for 3 years and might have stayed longer if call quality for me hadn't gone to hell after they migrated to new servers). I don't make international calls (or even calls to Canada) so Ooma was a very affordable alternative. I have been very impressed with Ooma's call quality. (For the nay-sayers who like to predict that Ooma won't survive, it doesn't take long to recoup your investment with Oooma. My former primary provider's fees had climbed steadily since I first signed up with them. With the "regulatory fees" they've tacked on, it would have cost me over $250 to renew for another year.) If you need unlimited US calls and you've got your own PAP2 or other ATA, you could easily get an Ooma and sign up with a pay-as-you-go provider with good international rates. I've got the Ooma hub, an IP phone and a SPA3102 behind my router--all operating with no problems. (I've had a back-up pay-as-you-go provider for most of my years using VOIP--there will be hiccups with any VOIP provider that will result in service interruptions.) If you don't need unlimited US calling, then maybe all you need is a pay-as-you-go account with the provider who has the best interantional rates to the destinations that you call most frequently. Good luck. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22654129 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:56:59 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22653999 dcm :

said by Tampa304

:

Thanks!...You are right...So far, its has been a balancing act in finding a good, reliable VOIP provider who offers unlimited U.S local and long distance plus reasonable international calling rates...

Do you truly need "unlimited" U.S. outgoing? What is your monthly average for U.S. outgoing?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22653999 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:14:55 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22653993 dcm :

said by garys_2k

:

Future-Nine seems to charge about 5.9 cents/minute for calls to India, plus their domestic U.S. calls are 1 cent/minute on a pay as you go plan. Porting your number costs $25.

Add $5 for DID + $1 for E911 (optional) per month.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22653993 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:13:05 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22653666 garys_2k : Future-Nine seems to charge about 5.9 cents/minute for calls to India, plus their domestic U.S. calls are 1 cent/minute on a pay as you go plan. Porting your number costs $25.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22653666 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:35:15 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22653568 Tampa304 :

said by pandora :
As to Ooma costs vs what you have, it would be necessary to tally up the number of long distance minutes you expect to use every month than multiply by the Ooma rate to get an approximate expense estimate.

Thanks!...You are right...So far, its has been a balancing act in finding a good, reliable VOIP provider who offers unlimited U.S local and long distance plus reasonable international calling rates...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22653568 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:05:31 EDT Re: Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22652629 pandora : If you make a lot of international calls, there are better VOIP solutions than Ooma. Ooma seems mostly intended for residential users who make mostly U.S. calls.

In answer to your questions:

1) It took Ooma 5 weeks to port my number, but times seem to have become a bit shorter of late.

2) I wouldn't put Ooma in front of my router, I prefer it behind the router (on the LAN).

3) If you make a lot of international calls, Ooma may not be an appropriate service.

As to Ooma costs vs what you have, it would be necessary to tally up the number of long distance minutes you expect to use every month than multiply by the Ooma rate to get an approximate expense estimate.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22652629 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:29:09 EDT Considering replacing my VOIP provider with ooma...... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22652471 Tampa304 : Am considering buying the ooma device. Its on sale for $214 on AMAZON.

Couple of questions to users of the ooma device.

1. How long did it take you to port your number?

2. Am on a dry loop using Westell 7500 modem, has anyone configured ooma to work with this modem?

3. I noticed that International calls with ooma is 3-4 times higher. what providers are you using to make International calls?

The main reason am with ALLVOI is they provide x number of free minutes to India and several other countries along
with unlimited(fair usage policy applies) U.S local and long distance and all this for about $14.99 plus tax(~$20) per month.

But now, their promotional plan is expiring and I fall into their regular plan where I would be paying ~$32(with taxes) every month.

Total cost going forward with my current VOIP provider: $32*12months = $384...

Initial ooma cost = $214 + $39(to port number) = $253 and cost to make International calls.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22652471 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:26:18 EDT