sMURF
join:2007-02-27
Toronto, ON | GFCI breaker tripping I have an outdoor outlet that has been tripping the GFCI breaker. A couple years ago, I was having the same problem, and replacing the outlet seemed to have fixed the issue (when I opened it, I noticed one of the wires had broken off and it was wired backwards).
I haven't had any problems with it until recently. When I opened it again, I noticed there seems to be rust/corrosion on the neutral terminals, and the hot terminals seemed fine. I replaced it with a new outlet again, but it's still tripping.
By then I had realized that it always trips within a few seconds of plugging in a laptop AC adapter. As a test, I tried running a microwave, and it tripped also. Other things such as a Shop-Vac, lights, and even a computer didn't cause it to trip.
I'd appreciate any advice you guys can give me. |
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| GFCI breakers in general will trip if there is too much resistance or other issues on the line. I forget off the top of my head what the threshold generally is, but it is fairly low.
In general it is not advisable to have a long run of wire from the GFCI, and hence they are often used in sub-panels that are closer to the actual source.
To fix your problem, you could replace the outlet, and then if that doesn't fix it... you could replace the gfci (buy the same brand as your panel/other breakers). Of course also clean up the wires, strip new lengths if possible...
What is the distance from the panel to the outlet?
How many outlets are on this GFCI breaker?
Do any of the outlets on the GFCI breaker have built in GFCI features also?
What brand GFCI breaker are you using?
It's late and I can't think of anything else... but that should get this thread going a little.
-Eric |
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 SparkChaserR.I.P. DocPremium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
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| reply to sMURF
said by sMURF:By then I had realized that it always trips within a few seconds of plugging in a laptop AC adapter. As a test, I tried running a microwave, and it tripped also. Other things such as a Shop-Vac, lights, and even a computer didn't cause it to trip. The GFI is measuring current in the hot and neutral and comparing them. I don't know what the "resistance" has to do with it.
Are there other outlets on the breaker? Do they all do the same thing?
The fact that the laptop and microwave tripped it makes it sound like the breaker. Both of those devices can have a very "weird" power factor and put harmonics on the line. Were they grounded (3 prong plug)? Another posibility is that they may have some noise suppression to ground that is affecting the current balance.
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
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| reply to sMURF
GFCI measure the difference in current between Hot and Neutral. If difference exceeds about 5 ma (5/1000 ampere) device trips.
How much other stuff is on the GFCI protected circuit? 5 ma is not very much current. Want to check all receptacles and switches on circuit. If there is corrosion need to be replaced.
If everything downstream of the GFCI looks good agree with SparkChaser  probably a problem with GFCI under with certain types of loads. Try replacing it.
Another option it to replace GFCI breaker with regular breaker and use GFCI outlets as needed. If breaker is being used to protect other areas that require GFCI, such as bathrooms, will need to install GFCI outlets in that location also. You don't need one at every location. Anything downstream is protected, just like using a breaker.
When I first built our house used GFCI breaker to protect outside receptacles and lighting. Was plagued with nuisance trips. Replaced breaker and installed GFCI outlets at front and rear of house. Have not had any more problems.
/tom |
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sMURF
join:2007-02-27
Toronto, ON | reply to ericinmia
Distance: Around 50 feet or so. I'm pretty sure this house was wired by monkeys, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was longer than it needed to be.
Number of outlets: The outdoor outlet is the only thing on this breaker.
Both the laptop and the microwave were 3 prong. The Shop-Vac and computer were also 3 prong, but they didn't cause it to trip. I don't think I've seen anything with only 2 prongs trip the breaker yet.
As for what type of breaker, I have no idea, but I'm sure someone can tell by looking at the picture.
Thanks. |
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 mattmagPremium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3 |
Where's the rest of that system? Is that a sub-panel? Can't even see the main feeds in that picture. I don't recognize the screw-on breakers, but I'll bet one of the pros here will.
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sMURF
join:2007-02-27
Toronto, ON | That is the main and only panel. I took that picture a few years ago and I guess I forgot to also include the portion on the left where the main breaker is. |
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| reply to sMURF
Some equipment will trip some GFCI breakers. That is why only some things usually most likely three prong and not all three prong will trip some not all GFCI.
Some how a little tiny amperage is leaking to ground in what you are using. That GFCI is sensitive enough to sense it. The trip threshold is milliamps so not much margin for inconsistencies on the part of a GFCI or what is plugged into it.
Another GFCI or different setup may be just insensitive enough not to sense it. |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
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| reply to sMURF
Normally, A GFCI trips because of a defective load. It could be an appliance or equipment plugged in. It could also be protected wiring / outlets on the load side of the device.
So, the most likely explanation is the GFCI is doing its job and tripping like it should.
I have seen nuisance tripping on GFCI such as large motor loads. While the leakage can't be explained or even megged out, it still happens. This isn't very common at all.
As for the pic, Canada is the only place I've ever seen a sideways double row breaker panel. While the wiring isn't very tidy, I do not see anything unusual.
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1 edit | reply to sMURF
We had one outside GFI outlet that caused random trips. (at outlet, not breaker panel) Sometimes with load, sometimes just sitting there.
We eventually couldn't use outlet.. Would immediately trip on reset. Replaced GFI.. No more problems...
Might consider that
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 ArthurSWatch Those Blinking LightsPremium
join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON | reply to nunya
said by nunya:As for the pic, Canada is the only place I've ever seen a sideways double row breaker panel. While the wiring isn't very tidy, I do not see anything unusual. Actually, the panel is essentially the same as what you have in the USA, except that some jurisdictions allow for the circuit breaker panel to be mounted sideways as pictured, often as a result of space constraints. |
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| reply to sMURF
since it is outdoors make sure that it has a proper cover on the plug and that no water is getting into the electrical box. I would try replacing it. Ive seen lots of GFI's quit out in the first 5 years of use. |
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sMURF
join:2007-02-27
Toronto, ON | reply to sMURF
So if the breaker is working as designed, and for whatever reason it doesn't like the laptop, then I'm fine with that. Plugging the laptop into an outlet inside the house isn't a big deal.
No one has identified what type of breakers they are. The only similar ones I've found on www.homedepot.ca are the bolt-on Eaton Cutler-Hammer breakers. I may end up replacing the GFCI breaker with a regular one, and installing a GFCI outlet outside. Doing so would at least make it easier to reset if it does trip, without having to go all the way to the basement. |
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1 edit | said by sMURF:No one has identified what type of breakers they are. The only similar ones They look like commander. I believe the newer style of commander breakers are the same as the cutler-hammer. I'm not sure if the older commander (discontinued in the mid-late 90s) are the same. Or if it's appropriate to replace those with the cutler-hammer. Perhaps if you get the panel codes and breaker codes one of our resident electrical experts has a cross-listed guide for replacements(if they are indeed commander.) |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
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O Fallon, MO
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1 edit | reply to sMURF
The mold looks like challenger or westinghouse, which I guess would both be cutler hammer now. Is it the GFCI breaker tripping, or a GFCI receptacle? It's interesting that there are no identification markings on them other than the amp rating.
After some very *exciting* research, it looks like the commander (discontinued) brand listed above was popular in Canada and cross references to cutler hammer. |
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| reply to sMURF
A quick test would be to temporarily disconnect the wiring from the breaker and wire a plug at the breaker panel. If the breaker still trips with the microwave or laptop charger, it is probably the breaker. If the breaker doesn't trip, with the microwave or laptop charger, it is a wiring issue. |
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