O G
@anonymouse.org
|  Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl!
Figured I'd post this here since the CRTC Traffic Management hearings are kicking off this week in Gatineau, Quebec, and this story seems to fit in.
Also, this TekSavvy forum was at the heart of the Canadian neutrality debate and throttling wars.
References:
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2008/···8-19.htm
and
»www.crtc.gc.ca/PartVII/eng/2008/···5400.htm
I think another good reference to these hearings are everything that happened over the year plus in regards to the "traffic management":
p2pnet traffic shaping digest: »www.p2pnet.net/story/15671 (Jon at p2pnet will have to update that digest and earn his keep, it's lagging  , I'll complain to him).
From the 1st link above: »www.p2pnet.net/story/24417
Customer First
Finally, I asked Rocky if he had any more thoughts on the issue and,”Hmm,” he said, “Not sure why he [Tom] chose this path but in the first article he is pretty well arguing with himself as in, “all ISPs don’t have to throttle”.
He goes on »»»
All ISPs who want to create service tiers and try to oversell need to throttle, yes. I suspect the argument would become more about Business Models as to why one would or would not “need” to throttle.
The second one is as easy as day…. “POOR NETWORK MANAGEMENT”.
If they got caught with their pants down, then that’s their problem. Fire the guys who didn’t see the growth and didn’t properly manage the network and get competent people in there to do it right. It indeed does take time to turn up larger or more connections but it also takes time to implement/configure throttling equipment.
You can see network trends months out so requesting appropriate network resources shouldn’t be all that difficult. Also, if you follow the old rule of thumb of “network due diligence” then you’re looking at things daily and can see the weaknesses in your setup.
Graphing and monitoring and a little over capacity planning to buy you the necessary time to upgrade generally gives you sufficient space to prepare for a worst case scenario.
Otherwise, if you happen to get too many sales in one shot and land up with too many people on at one time, then you have to make the difficult decision: cause your current client base to start having network congestion while you upgrade; or, do the customer-friendly thing and put a stop to selling new connections while you get upgrades done.
“In, either case the customer has to come first,” Rocky states.
“They aren’t [our] adversaries. They’re our income!”
Well said Rocky!
Also keep an eye on CIPPIC's live blogging event!
See: »CIPPIC-Monday July 6, Live Bloggin Net Neutrality Hearings
Should be some interesting arguments about the discrimination of an entire protocol and the discrimination of a population who use P2P, thanks to Bell Canada, who stated TekSavvy customers' will be happier with the traffic management.
Does anyone have an agenda of who is speaking? When? And what dates?
Maybe Karl (the DSLreports reporter) should be advised this kicks off tomorrow. He has a way with words 
Enjoy the Traffic Management Super Bowl! The spin and rhetoric should be thick (because as we all know 5% of the people are the cause for an entire protocol throttle in all of Quebec and Ontario) | |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! 2008-19 Public Hearing Details
Monday, 6 July 2009
Appearing individually
1. Sandvine Incorporated
2. Juniper Networks
Panel
3. National Union
4. Union des consommateurs
Appearing individually
5. Public Interest Advocacy Centre
Tuesday, 7 July2009
Appearing individually
6. Open Internet Coalition
7. Zip.ca
8. Canadian Conference of the Arts
9. Canadian Independent Record Production Association
Panel
10. Jason Roks
11. Norm Friesen
12. Vaxination Informatique (Jean-Francois Mezei)
Wednesday, 8 July 2009
Panel
13. Independent Film and Television Alliance
14. Canadian Film & Television Production Association
Appearing individually
15. Score Media
16. Council of Canadians with Disabilities and ARCH Disability Law Centre
17 Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists
18. Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic on behalf of Campaign for Democratic Media
Thursday, 9 July 2009
Appearing individually
19. Canadian Association of Internet Providers
20. Coalition of Internet Service Providers
21. Cybersurf
22. Execulink Telecom
23. Rip.net
Friday, 10 July 2009
Appearing individually
24. Quebecor Media, on behalf of Videotron ltée
25. MTS Allstream
26. Primus Telecommunications Canada Inc.
27. Cogeco Cable Inc.
28. Barrett Xplore Inc.
Monday, 13 July 2009
Appearing individually
29. Rogers Communications Inc.
30. Telus Communications Company
31. Shaw Communications Inc.
32. Bell Aliant Communications Partnership and Bell Canada
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )
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FlagVictim
@teksavvy.com
| Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! said by R0CKY  :2008-19 Public Hearing Details [...] [Last day, Final Word:] Monday, 13 July 2009 Appearing individually 29. Rogers Communications Inc. 30. Telus Communications Company 31. Shaw Communications Inc. 32. Bell Aliant Communications Partnership and Bell Canada Hey, rather telling how it's /these/ characters who comprise the closing commentators.
Someone needs to smack the CRTC with the regulatory-capture/regular-whore rubber hose. | |
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derekm
join:2008-02-26
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! said by FlagVictim :said by R0CKY :2008-19 Public Hearing Details [...] [Last day, Final Word:] Monday, 13 July 2009 Appearing individually 29. Rogers Communications Inc. 30. Telus Communications Company 31. Shaw Communications Inc. 32. Bell Aliant Communications Partnership and Bell Canada Hey, rather telling how it's /these/ characters who comprise the closing commentators. Someone needs to smack the CRTC with the regulatory-capture/regular-whore rubber hose. +1 !!! | |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! Yup. | |
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Jazdi
@acanac.net
| Monday looks like a decent lineup, Jean-Francois especially 
I think I'll go on Monday and decide whether the other days would be worth going to based on that.
JF posted the specific details (address, etc) here:
»CRTC Public Hearings on throttling (2008-19)
Starts at 9:00 I believe. | |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
1 edit | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! Jazdi, you nearly gave me a heart attack. I had everything planned for Tuesday. Had to check the CRTC documents again. I am last to speak on Tuesday July 7th.
(which means there is a possibility that if it is too delayed, I would be asked to present on the morning of the following day).
And remember to expect nothing from me. I don't exactly have a good standing with the net neutrality movement. I get to speak to 5 individuals for 10 minutes and leave. Just hope sleep deprivation won't result i my falling asleep while I speak. | |
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Jazdi
@acanac.net
| Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! said by jfmezei :Jazdi, you nearly gave me a heart attack. I had everything planned for Tuesday. Had to check the CRTC documents again. I am last to speak on Tuesday July 7th. (which means there is a possibility that if it is too delayed, I would be asked to present on the morning of the following day). And remember to expect nothing from me. I don't exactly have a good standing with the net neutrality movement. I get to speak to 5 individuals for 10 minutes and leave. Just hope sleep deprivation won't result i my falling asleep while I speak. LOL, sorry JF. I actually just realized that I had it wrong about 10 minutes ago when I looked at the list a second time. I'm thinking I'll skip tomorrow. Two hardware vendors and a public service union? Doesn't sound that exciting. Is anyone here planning on going tomorrow? | |
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An_Onymous
@teksavvy.com | Same as the Super Bowl. Lot of speculations, talks etc., shots of asses for some of the most overly paid people. Not a whole lot the average Joes at home can do to change the outcome. | |
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From around
@videotron.ca
| »www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4101/135/
CRTC Net Neutrality Hearings Open Amid ISPs' Conflicting Claims
The telecom and cable companies will likely maintain that managing their networks, which may include using "deep packet inspection" to identify subscriber activity and limiting available bandwidth for certain applications (a practice known as throttling), is essential to ensure optimal access for all subscribers. Consumer associations, independent Internet service providers (ISPs), broadcasters, creator groups, and technology companies are likely to warn against network management practices that raise competition, privacy, and consumer rights concerns.
My weekly technology law column (Toronto Star version, homepage version) notes that as the Commission weighs the various claims, it would do well to consider the testimony it heard just a few months ago during the February new media hearings. The issue at play at those hearings was whether ISPs should face a levy to fund new media or be required to prioritize Canadian content (the CRTC declined to do both in its decision released last month). Interestingly, the same telecom and cable companies that will now argue that managing their networks is essential, offered a somewhat different take when confronted with the prospect of doing so in the name of supporting Canadian content.
For example, Shaw Communications's network management submission states "traffic management is necessary to ensure that Shaw's customers continue to have access to fast, reliable and affordable service." It adds the "traffic shaping process uses deep packet inspection (DPI) technology to identify packets that are associated with P2P file-sharing applications and to slow those packets down, limiting the amount of available capacity P2P traffic consumes."
Yet when CEO Jim Shaw was asked about the prospect of identifying traffic during the new media hearings, he told the Commission, "we can only tell you how many bits are coming in or out. We don't know what kind of bit it is. It could be anything from an e-mail to a porno. We don't know that. We spend no time trying to figure out what bits are going to your house. We just don't know."
The same inconsistencies arise within the context of the technological capability of discriminating against certain content. While the telecom and cable companies will argue their network management practices do not target specific content, when asked about the issue during the new media hearings, an expert witness for MTS Allstream told the CRTC "now it does happen on some basis. It happens, for instance, under the purview of intelligence agencies quietly. There are things that go on; however, the consumers haven't been directly told ‘We are going to start sniffing your packets.'"
In fact, when net neutrality supporters point to the need for an "open Internet" that treats content and applications in an equal manner, they might remind the CRTC that they are not alone in making that case.
During the new media hearings, Rogers Communications told the Commission "there is no walled garden, there is no preferred content, it's just a pipe. We are moving to a big, wide-open pipe," while the same MTS Allstream expert, perhaps foreshadowing the outcome of the network management hearings, acknowledged "when a commercial interest attempts to violate the principle of openness, as it is defined by the open culture movement, there tends to be a very dramatic and forceful rebuking."
======================
»www.p2pnet.net/story/24415
Traffic throttling Super Bowl! …
… at least, that’s how a post on dslreports describes it, going on, “Should be some interesting arguments about the discrimination of an entire protocol and the discrimination of a population who use P2P, thanks to Bell Canada …”
Because today is the day the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) opens its investigate into traffic throttling slash net neutrality in Canada.
And it’s been a long time coming.
More than a year ago, the Canadian Association of Internet Providers (CAIP), representing independent ISPs across Canada, launched its official complaint against traffic throttling instituted by Bell Canada against its customers, pretending it was reluctantly forced to do so because of the activities of a tiny minority of people it called broadband hogs.
Online, these people, who comprise 5% of the general Bell Canada customer base, are known as file sharers. Significantly, an identical statistic is also routinely trotted out by other ISP giants, and not only in Canada.
“The companies say these large files clog the space on their networks, which leads to slow connection speeds for other customers, similar to how a lumbering tractor trailer can impede the flow of traffic on a highway,” as a Financial Post story colourfully states the situation as it’s presented by Bell, et al.
“Other ISPs in the United States and Europe have faced a similar backlash from proponents of ‘net neutrality,’ which states that traffic-shaping violates the unwritten rule that all Internet traffic should be treated equally and should not be managed by ISPs,” says the story, adding:
“What started as an issue that garnered attention only in the technology community, the idea of net neutrality has steadily gained mainstream attention. Members of both the federal NDP and Liberal parties have spoken out in favour of net neutrality.”
It has Rogers spokesman Ken Engelhart stating, “The CRTC has all the tools it needs to deal with discrimination and they should deal with complaints as they arise … it’s a mistake to try and create rules up front for a medium like the Internet that’s changing so quickly.” | |
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| | pwrsurge
join:2009-04-15
| said by fiestaware :Figures they'd use Windows Media Player. They are using an ASX stream which works on VLC for those of you who don't like windows media player or are not running a Windows OS. In VLC, press CTRL+N and enter the following HTTP address:
»www.crtc.gc.ca/streaming/stream1-floor.asx
Works fine over here with VLC under Linux. | |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! BTW, there is no podium. I was told I have to stay seated, no theatricals like Steve Jobs. | |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! you kno what steve jobs would do don't you?, he would ignore them :P | |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! If Steve Jobs ran the CRTC.. you'd all be forced to use a Mac with iWorks! OK off topic.. | |
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| | | | | static416
join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON | Seems a little unfair that they are grilling the crap out of this guy, when Sandvine and Juniper got off relatively easy and were allowed to dodge questions. | |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! he should say would you like it if every call you made was wiretapped for no reason 24\7, the guy would change his tune! | |
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BonkersInc
King of Lalaland
join:2008-09-05
1 edit | The dude asking the question has a bad case of the mumbles!
Edit: I'm liking some of the points he's bringing up, though.  | |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! The "dude" asking questions is the CRTC Chair, Konrad von Kinckenstein. | |
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drewis
Premium
join:2006-09-04
Hamilton, ON | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! talk about beating around the bush, sandvine gotta love them.. just redirecting the question... | |
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drewis
Premium
join:2006-09-04
Hamilton, ON | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! yeah this does sound like juniper is kind of biased here, kind of like trying to sell their concepts... | |
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| | | | | static416
join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! said by drewis :yeah this does sound like juniper is kind of biased here, kind of like trying to sell their concepts... Anyone else scared by the concept of variable billing based on the time of day to curb usage? Like UBB on steriods.
Also the "open garden" idea he's talking about is essentially a consumer-regulated traffic shaping. Interesting idea. Better than the ISP determining it at least. The problem comes in when they start asking for more money for certain sites. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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pls capture
@videotron.ca | TY for the link Rocky!
heading out... Is anyone capturing this stream?
I would love to listen to this later this afternoon.
If captured, please give a link or upload.
TY! | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON | Juniper Networks next !
hope these guys are good | |
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An_Onymous
@teksavvy.com | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! I read through Juniper's filing and their comments are fair and respectable. | |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! said by An_Onymous :
I read through Juniper's filing and their comments are fair and respectable.
They're slightly ok, but being a vendor there's always a chance of bias. | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| said by An_Onymous :
I read through Juniper's filing and their comments are fair and respectable.
ya, your right , i can understand Junipers point of view as they really are talking about the networks and how to improve a network.
but we all know this is not really Bell or Rogers intentions, so I dont know if it really helps . | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON | control .... control .... control .......... | |
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drewis
Premium
join:2006-09-04
Hamilton, ON | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! lol | |
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Anonone
@owergeneration.com | Wonder if they'll distribute the televised recording via Torrent?! | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON | I like this lady so far ... | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON | lol ... Juniper guys seem to see a lot of congestion with their own laptops on the network. | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON | awww.. she was nailing Juniper with the big question about DPI and they simply said ¨our DPI isnt as advanced.. it may or may not be possible , we may not be the best vendor to ask about that ¨
lol | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON | lol now he's saying they're not interested in "profiling subscribers" but the ISPs are! And I know some ISPs are certainly using DPI that way. | |
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| static416
join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! said by mlerner :lol now he's saying they're not interested in "profiling subscribers" but the ISPs are! And I know some ISPs are certainly using DPI that way. And just as it seems like they're getting on track, they cut for a break and let Juniper go.
I must say that it seems like the CRTC has good questions, but they are kinda getting the run around on the answers. They need to be a little more aggressive in getting real answers to existing issues.
Juniper and Sandvine weren't exactly dishonest in their answers, but they basically refused to talk openly about the ways the ISPs actually use their product. Instead they stayed in 'theoretical land' where everything is rosey, and the consumer has all the power. | |
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join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! "The responsibility is on ISPs to explain how traffic management and DPI do not violate common carriage rules. It should not be up to the consumer to beg for fair treatment." | |
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overrryde
join:2007-04-10
Etobicoke, ON | is any of this beeing captured/streamed? | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! said by overrryde :is any of this beeing captured/streamed? I hope so ...
I would but I am at work right now | |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! CRTC are recording and will produce transcriptions of the presentations. | |
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B | The consumer panel's presentation is driving me nuts. DEMONSTRATE SOME SHOWMANSHIP FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! The presentation is making me fall asleep! Why does EVERY presentation in front of the CRTC has to be so incredibly boring? | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON | i think its because many of us have AADD =P | |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | Re: Its the Traffic Management Super Bowl! lol they don't understand him :P | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON | my goodness,
why is Finklestein so confused  | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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