said by Lewism8 :

Yeah, but it's copy and paste from the Canadian Press. They don't care or they do not want to.

said by dandin1 :

I don't like that mention of regulating peering though.

said by cpsycho :

I don't think they are deploying fttn in Orangeville. A new subdivision just went in vary close to my place and it looks like they ran standard equipment to some brown long box, when I'm out later today, I will take a pic of it. If I remember to bring my camera.

said by cpsycho :

here is another reason why we need more CO's.

said by cpsycho :

here is another reason why we need more CO's.

»www.spacedatabase.com/SearchAvai···ngID=476

edit:unless it is broken. zero space available.

said by cpsycho :

Edit: still bad idea of having new tech to off set bandwidth of old tech. Still leaves canada in the stone ages when it comes to non symmetrical setups.

said by cpsycho :

Im not sure if I liked it either. He was not to keen on the idea of symmetrical networks by my understanding and only suggesting new tech for the current network setup.

Edit: still bad idea of having new tech to off set bandwidth of old tech. Still leaves canada in the stone ages when it comes to non symmetrical setups.

said by cpsycho :

Edit: still bad idea of having new tech to off set bandwidth of old tech. Still leaves canada in the stone ages when it comes to non symmetrical setups.

said by cpsycho :

Im not sure if I liked it either. He was not to keen on the idea of symmetrical networks by my understanding and only suggesting new tech for the current network setup.

said by cpsycho :

I wish they were streaming video.

said by DJMASACRE :

is she trying to speak french to confuse them ? =P

yay official languages !

said by static416 :

This CISP guy is interesting. Good technical description of how ISP's are overselling connections.

said by milnoc :

They still have to pay the front-end costs to connect themselves on the Internet. Cogent offers it for $7 per Mbps per month on a three year contract, less if your needs are much higher.

said by mlerner :

Yeah except he's saying bandwidth is expensive, where the hell is he getting the bandwidth from? It's actually quite cheaper in Torix.

said by cpsycho :

was bell or robbers questioned yesterday? These questions seem to be sided.

said by El Quintron :

Exactly narrow on two things:

1) Lack of bandwith is a fallacy
2) Throttling is anticompetitive.

said by Omr :

Bell's and Rogers caps, throttling and overage fees are an example of why Zip.ca will have a difficult time in reaching the last mile ... the consumer.

said by static416 :

This Zip.ca guy is good, he's showing at least his perspective of the anti-competitive aspects of traffic management.

More focus needed here.

said by static416 :

The reason is that the market is not competitive and the big ISPs are abusing their monopoly. That's the rationale, that's the crux of the issue, and no one's explicitly stated that yet.

said by R0CKY :

Sort of true, but one can argue the CRTC placed them at the end to be prepared... They're using questions from previous presentations currently. They're doing a pretty good job as it stands from where I currently sit.

Could be good....

said by mlerner :

I don't like where this is going. Someone better show the CRTC that Bell is neglecting their network, which is the real issue here, it should not cost more!

said by mlerner :

The only way that will happen is if the CRTC is abolished and a new commission is formed. The existing commission has become a corrupt political organization, no one even knows what they're doing as it is evident in the proceeding this morning.

said by cacruden :

I don't want the CRTC abolished, I want it's focus changed to that of focusing on protecting the consumer and ensuring sufficient competition in the marketplace. A duopoly is not competition because it is too easy to game even without breaking the law.

said by member name :

Seems Mr. Katz is using words and terms to downplay what is going on in two whole prov's.

It's not longer traffic management. Its “network integrity solutions”.

he is making it sound like the whole damn network is coming down without DPI.

Mr. Katz (ex-bell and ex-Rogers employee), the CRTC's new Propaganda Minister.

said by derekm :

ask whether it is appropriate for the mail service to tier their pricing/rates based on the content *inside* the envelope.

said by InvalidError :

Imagine if the postal service inspected mail to discard birthday, Christmas, New Year, Valentine, etc. cards if you exceeded a certain number of letters per year...

said by static416 :

Hopefully tomorrow will go better. Consumers have a strong position, we just need someone to articulate it well for us.

said by static416 :

I think that people defending consumers should highlight:
1. there is little to no proof of actual congestion
2. if traffic discrimination is required, hard proof of congestion must be offered
3. many other countries seem to be able to have awesome internet because of the wealth of competition
4. traffic shaping at the application level is anti-innovation and does not reflect the actual demands on the network (throttling bittorrent and then offering IPTV is clearly discriminatory)

said by BonkersInc :

The point was already made in the hearing this morning that the carriers will do what they can to increase revenues regardless of whether it will have a negative impact on the users.

said by BonkersInc :

The point was already made in the hearing this morning that the carriers will do what they can to increase revenues regardless of whether it will have a negative impact on the users.

said by BonkersInc :

I think someone needs to stand up there and expressly state that we should not have to change our ways due to the actions of a few abusive people.

said by otty :

Unfortunatetly part of the CRTC's mandate in the Telecommunications Act is to find free market solutions and slowly deregulate.

said by BonkersInc :

I think someone needs to stand up there and expressly state that we should not have to change our ways due to the actions of a few abusive people.

said by derekm :

So some of the issues that the CRTC were stuck on:

1. control disruption of network services
2. ability to maintain service levels
3. ability of a carrier to control costs

Any other main issues that people can think of? If we come up with a list here, perhaps we can come up with some counter examples for our speakers.

I can think of a bunch of stuff for these points already.

said by DJMASACRE :

well thank goodness for her, it would have been much worse.

she made ficklestein angry

.. ok Day 2 next.

said by FastP :

Thanks DJMasacre for the link . :D

said by Shada :

and now the music kicks in and i would not doubt if it is even canadian produced. after hearing that crap i know think this is not a panel at all but a court case, the the public for some reason is the defendants.

said by static416 :

I don't know why it hasn't been brought up that it seems the rest of the developed world seems to be able provide better connections for less money with fewer restrictions. Clearly something is up.

said by jfmezei :

She was the expert for the PIAC group.

said by static416 :

I don't know why it hasn't been brought up that it seems the rest of the developed world seems to be able provide better connections for less money with fewer restrictions. Clearly something is up.

said by static416 :

We'd be screwed if she wasn't up there.

said by Shada :

good the Lady to the rescue again

said by globus999 :

I was just listening on and, I think, we are screwed. The jack-a**es from the CRTC:

1 - Not a clue what it is at stake
2 - Not giving a flying f*ck about the problem
3 - No imagination and / or healthy skepticism

Forecast:

1 -ISPs will get away with it. The only "requirement" will the the one to inform the public.
2 - Say by-by to the Internet as we know it

F*CK!!! :mad:

said by static416 :

Seems a little unfair that they are grilling the crap out of this guy, when Sandvine and Juniper got off relatively easy and were allowed to dodge questions.

said by mlerner :

It's obvious BELL IPTV!!! Why is no one mentioning that IPTV is on the same network?? Remotes have nothing to do with it!

said by Angelo_ :

they should give a example of bell doing it

said by fiestaware :

Figures they'd use Windows Media Player.

said by FastP :

Guys, how are you following it ? Thanks ! :)

said by Angelo_ :

any1 want to start a pool who can be protentioanlly "bought"?

said by Shada :

I like this Lady, Good history in the face facts

said by DJMASACRE :

my goodness,

why is Finklestein so confused :(

said by mlerner :

I am usually quite focused actually but this guy is a talking speed reader!

said by DJMASACRE :

i think its because many of us have AADD =P

said by static416 :

That explains why I'm falling asleep.

said by jfmezei :

Most such hearings are just that. Someone reads their submission to the commission.

It is during the question period that they may be more animated.

said by jfmezei :

The current speaker is a lawyer.

said by milnoc :

The consumer panel's presentation is driving me nuts. DEMONSTRATE SOME SHOWMANSHIP FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! The presentation is making me fall asleep! Why does EVERY presentation in front of the CRTC has to be so incredibly boring?

said by milnoc :

The consumer panel's presentation is driving me nuts. DEMONSTRATE SOME SHOWMANSHIP FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! The presentation is making me fall asleep! Why does EVERY presentation in front of the CRTC has to be so incredibly boring?

said by overrryde :

is any of this beeing captured/streamed?

said by DJMASACRE :

I hope so ...

I would but I am at work right now

said by overrryde :

is any of this beeing captured/streamed?

said by FlagVictim :

Hey, rather telling how it's /these/ characters who comprise the closing commentators.

Someone needs to smack the CRTC with the regulatory-capture/regular-whore rubber hose.

said by mlerner :

lol now he's saying they're not interested in "profiling subscribers" but the ISPs are! And I know some ISPs are certainly using DPI that way.

said by static416 :

Boo ya! The questioner is reasserting that Junipers answers should be directly addressed to the discrimination issue, rather than "theoretical solutions"

said by static416 :

I think the bigger issue is that Juniper doesn't want to talk negatively about the ways their product could be used by ISPs.

It's like asking a gun manufacturer if their product could be used to kill people. They'd say "depends on the way the product is implemented"

said by DJMASACRE :

I thought that was Sandvine ?

said by mlerner :

Well vendors often offer different features in their products. It would have been better if the actual vendor that Bell uses showed up to present.

said by mlerner :

Well vendors often offer different features in their products. It would have been better if the actual vendor that Bell uses showed up to present.

said by static416 :

Wow, they explicitly asked if ISP-determined traffic shaping being used in Canada, and he dodged the question.

said by static416 :

He's careful not to explicitly state that the methods he's suggesting for traffic management are not employed by Bell or Rogers. In fact the Bell and Rogers solutions are much more draconian and anti-consumer than the 'theoretical' stuff he's talking about.

said by DJMASACRE :

yeah i dont think this has anything to do with the validity of Bell or Rogers practices anymore... they are just going on their own ideas of stuff now... good ol network companies.. who gets to decide which applications get whitelisted or prioritizing . ok maybe the consumer sure, but then how will Bell or Rogers make their money like that =P

said by static416 :

Anyone else scared by the concept of variable billing based on the time of day to curb usage? Like UBB on steriods.

Also the "open garden" idea he's talking about is essentially a consumer-regulated traffic shaping. Interesting idea. Better than the ISP determining it at least. The problem comes in when they start asking for more money for certain sites.

said by drewis :

yeah this does sound like juniper is kind of biased here, kind of like trying to sell their concepts...

said by jfmezei :

The "dude" asking questions is the CRTC Chair, Konrad von Kinckenstein.

said by An_Onymous :

I read through Juniper's filing and their comments are fair and respectable.

said by An_Onymous :

I read through Juniper's filing and their comments are fair and respectable.

said by drewis :

talk about beating around the bush, sandvine gotta love them.. just redirecting the question...

said by fiestaware :

Figures they'd use Windows Media Player.

said by R0CKY :

»www.crtc.gc.ca/streaming/stream1-floor.htm

said by jfmezei :

And remember to expect nothing from me. I don't exactly have a good standing with the net neutrality movement. I get to speak to 5 individuals for 10 minutes and leave. Just hope sleep deprivation won't result i my falling asleep while I speak.

said by jfmezei :

Jazdi, you nearly gave me a heart attack. I had everything planned for Tuesday. Had to check the CRTC documents again. I am last to speak on Tuesday July 7th.

(which means there is a possibility that if it is too delayed, I would be asked to present on the morning of the following day).

And remember to expect nothing from me. I don't exactly have a good standing with the net neutrality movement. I get to speak to 5 individuals for 10 minutes and leave. Just hope sleep deprivation won't result i my falling asleep while I speak.

said by R0CKY :

2008-19 Public Hearing Details
[...]

[Last day, Final Word:] Monday, 13 July 2009

Appearing individually

29. Rogers Communications Inc.
30. Telus Communications Company
31. Shaw Communications Inc.
32. Bell Aliant Communications Partnership and Bell Canada