Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
|  Mapping
Has anyone looked at the Connected Nation maps? They aren't as bad nor as dire as this guy says. Sure the OTHER maps are better, but the Connected Nation maps are very similar to the other maps, they just don't differentiate Cable or DSL. So, while I feel accuracy is very important, the sky is certainly not falling. Let's worry about getting broadband to those "white" areas on the Connected Nation map and then we can tackle what type it is. |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
1 edit | said by Matt  :Has anyone looked at the Connected Nation maps? They aren't as bad nor as dire as this guy says. Sure the OTHER maps are better, but the Connected Nation maps are very similar to the other maps, they just don't differentiate Cable or DSL. So, while I feel accuracy is very important, the sky is certainly not falling. Let's worry about getting broadband to those "white" areas on the Connected Nation map and then we can tackle what type it is. But as stated, how do we verify the data is accurate and true? Given the way the things are setup there will be no accountability and no way to ensure that what they are telling us is the truth.
Sure, give me $350 million dollars and all your dreams will come true. Trust me!! |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :Has anyone looked at the Connected Nation maps? They aren't as bad nor as dire as this guy says. Sure the OTHER maps are better, but the Connected Nation maps are very similar to the other maps, they just don't differentiate Cable or DSL. So, while I feel accuracy is very important, the sky is certainly not falling. Let's worry about getting broadband to those "white" areas on the Connected Nation map and then we can tackle what type it is. you miss the point entirely - the purpose of connected nation is to ENSURE accurate mapping data IS NOT AVAILABLE.
sure, they put out what looks like reasonable maps, but who's to know? they make sure the data is proprietary so it can't be verified because you can't see the raw data.
why are they doing this? because they don't want people to see how many "holes" there are in the U.S. broadband map. If the true state of broadband competition in the U.S. (little to no competition) were known, the FCC, BY LAW, would be obligated to take significant measures.
hide the facts and you can make up your own story. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru :said by Matt :Has anyone looked at the Connected Nation maps? They aren't as bad nor as dire as this guy says. Sure the OTHER maps are better, but the Connected Nation maps are very similar to the other maps, they just don't differentiate Cable or DSL. So, while I feel accuracy is very important, the sky is certainly not falling. Let's worry about getting broadband to those "white" areas on the Connected Nation map and then we can tackle what type it is. But as stated, how do we verify the data is accurate and true? Given the way the things are setup there will be no accountability and no way to ensure that what they are telling us is the truth. Sure, give me $350 million dollars and all your dreams will come true. Trust me!! I don't think it's coincidental that Connected Nations map matched the independent 3rd party ... I think that's a pretty decent sign it is accurate. The author also holds up e-NC as some sort of AT&T conspiracy. The e-NC data didn't solely rely on AT&T's word as he would have you believe. As denoted right in the bottom of the e-NC maps, which I'm sure he actually looked at, right?
Broadband service percentages presented were derived from e-NC’s analysis of data from providers, census tract data, cable and DSL service areas, and interpolation of all such data. Composite percentages are not averages of Broadband service providers' percentages.
In other words, we didn't just take what AT&T told us at face value, we actually did the legwork to verify it and compare it to other data. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru :how do we verify the data is accurate and true? Given the way the things are setup there will be no accountability and no way to ensure that what they are telling us is the truth. And your proposal? Have a person go to every physical address in the country and ask "can you hear me now?" Don't we need to start somewhere, then evaluate the system before casting stones?" Besides, almost anything will be an improvement from the current mapping tactics. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to nasadude
Re: Mapping
said by nasadude :you miss the point entirely - the purpose of connected nation is to ENSURE accurate mapping data IS NOT AVAILABLE. sure, they put out what looks like reasonable maps, but who's to know? they make sure the data is proprietary so it can't be verified because you can't see the raw data. As I said in my other post, I find it ironic that they accurately match the maps the author used as an example. I don't think I'm missing the point here. Until I'm shown more than anecdotal, heavily opinionated evidence, I'll form my own opinion based on the facts as they have been presented to me. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to nasadude
said by nasadude :said by Matt :Has anyone looked at the Connected Nation maps? They aren't as bad nor as dire as this guy says. Sure the OTHER maps are better, but the Connected Nation maps are very similar to the other maps, they just don't differentiate Cable or DSL. So, while I feel accuracy is very important, the sky is certainly not falling. Let's worry about getting broadband to those "white" areas on the Connected Nation map and then we can tackle what type it is. you miss the point entirely - the purpose of connected nation is to ENSURE accurate mapping data IS NOT AVAILABLE. A respected authority that disagrees with the accusations against Connected Nation:
»www.publicknowledge.org/node/133···ment-974
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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older dog
Premium
join:2005-06-09
Norwich, NY
1 edit | reply to Matt
said by Matt :I don't think it's coincidental that Connected Nations map matched the independent 3rd party ... I think that's a pretty decent sign it is accurate. I have no reason to suspect the present data anymore or less than future reports they may give.
But a corporation has no morality or soul and what it may present honestly today can change with the wind.
The more independent voices that can be brought in to the mix the better.
I don't see Connected Nation as an independent voice but a potentially very deceptive one. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by older dog :said by Matt :I don't think it's coincidental that Connected Nations map matched the independent 3rd party ... I think that's a pretty decent sign it is accurate. I have no reason to suspect the present data anymore or less than future reports they may give. But a corporation has no morality or soul and what it may present honestly today can change with the wind. The more independent voices that can be brought in to the mix the better. I agree with that, which is why the assertion that Connected Nation and AT&T are somehow in collusion, and e-NC is evidence of that baffles me. I think the author of the original piece had an idea of the conclusion he wanted to make and assembled information around it that "sort of" supported his position.
From what I have seen, I do believe Connected Nation may have a suspect connection to AT&T. But also from what I have seen, Connected Nation's maps match the independent 3rd party maps. So rather than blast Connected Nation and attempt to dismantle them, how about we lobby and push for independent 3rd party reviews on a set timetable? I'm sure that is something that everyone, AT&T included, would be happy to agree to. If not, then perhaps there is something worth looking into. |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
my understanding is that connected nation will not allow independent verification of the data used to make the maps; this assumes, of course, this is not just an anecdotal, heavily opinionated pronouncement.
if you can explain to me why this is so and what purpose it serves, I will concede connected nation must not be as "evil" as I think it is.
if you repeat the arguments already put forth (proprietary, competition sensitive, etc.), you're not going to sway me one bit. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to nasadude
said by nasadude :the purpose of connected nation is to ENSURE accurate mapping data IS NOT AVAILABLE. That is silly. ISPs already make these data widely available to the public. I can ruin this thread if you like by posting the links again.
said by nasadude :sure, they put out what looks like reasonable maps, but who's to know? they make sure the data is proprietary so it can't be verified because you can't see the raw data. What is stopping you from finding a location that Connected Nation claims can get broadband and then verifying that address with the ISPs which are claimed to provide service?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to nasadude
said by nasadude :my understanding is that connected nation will not allow independent verification of the data used to make the maps; this assumes, of course, this is not just an anecdotal, heavily opinionated pronouncement. if you can explain to me why this is so and what purpose it serves, I will concede connected nation must not be as "evil" as I think it is. if you repeat the arguments already put forth (proprietary, competition sensitive, etc.), you're not going to sway me one bit. I don't think that their unwillingness to release their compilation methodologies makes them any more or less suspect. They openly state where their information comes from and anyone is free to obtain the same information. The fact that their maps match the other maps shouldn't completely change your opinion, but should at least swing you toward the "Hey, maybe these guys are doing something right" side of the fence. So far, everything BUT that is hearsay.
Each time one of these topics comes up, I see a ton of heavily opinionated evidence about how they are evil, but nothing about why except for a purely circumstantial tie to AT&T and the argument that they won't release the nuts and bolts of their data. I don't think that proves anything other than they invested a lot of work into their research and don't want to allow someone to copy their methodology. After all, it's not like there are a ton of other companies doing this. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by nasadude :the purpose of connected nation is to ENSURE accurate mapping data IS NOT AVAILABLE. That is silly. ISPs already make these data widely available to the public. I can ruin this thread if you like by posting the links again. I'd like to see the links. Always good to see BOTH sides of the story.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | I would like to see these links too. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
1 edit | reply to Matt
this space for rent
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BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! |
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digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09
49533 | reply to openbox9
If I didn't know your agenda better, I'd say you were extremely naive. |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :said by nasadude :my understanding is that connected nation will not allow independent verification of the data used to make the maps; this assumes, of course, this is not just an anecdotal, heavily opinionated pronouncement. if you can explain to me why this is so and what purpose it serves, I will concede connected nation must not be as "evil" as I think it is. if you repeat the arguments already put forth (proprietary, competition sensitive, etc.), you're not going to sway me one bit. I don't think that their unwillingness to release their compilation methodologies makes them any more or less suspect. If they take public dollars they should make that information available.
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»www.seabee.navy.mil |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to TKJunkMail
I went ahead and hacked into a bunch of top secret databases to get these links.
FIOS lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp
Verizon DSL lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm
AT&T DSL lookup by address:
»https://swot.sbc.com/swot/canIOrderOnlin···ocessDSL
QWest DSL lookup by address: »www.qwest.com/residential/intern···ual.html
Cox - »https://secure.cox.com/service/offers/av···ces.aspx
Comcast - »https://www.comcast.com/Localization/Loc···x&area=6
Time Warner's websites are state specific.
Of course, these data beg the question as to why we need to pay someone to find out something that is already public knowledge anyway, but since any measure of rationality as it applies to domestic spending has been out the window for a very long time now, I guess that will be question for a different thread.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to digitalfreak
Agenda? I'll ask you the same question that I asked ropeguru , what's your mapping proposal? |
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