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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
·VOIPo


1 edit
reply to Matt
Re: Mapping

said by Matt See Profile :

Has anyone looked at the Connected Nation maps? They aren't as bad nor as dire as this guy says. Sure the OTHER maps are better, but the Connected Nation maps are very similar to the other maps, they just don't differentiate Cable or DSL. So, while I feel accuracy is very important, the sky is certainly not falling. Let's worry about getting broadband to those "white" areas on the Connected Nation map and then we can tackle what type it is.
But as stated, how do we verify the data is accurate and true? Given the way the things are setup there will be no accountability and no way to ensure that what they are telling us is the truth.

Sure, give me $350 million dollars and all your dreams will come true. Trust me!!


Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

said by ropeguru See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

Has anyone looked at the Connected Nation maps? They aren't as bad nor as dire as this guy says. Sure the OTHER maps are better, but the Connected Nation maps are very similar to the other maps, they just don't differentiate Cable or DSL. So, while I feel accuracy is very important, the sky is certainly not falling. Let's worry about getting broadband to those "white" areas on the Connected Nation map and then we can tackle what type it is.
But as stated, how do we verify the data is accurate and true? Given the way the things are setup there will be no accountability and no way to ensure that what they are telling us is the truth.

Sure, give me $350 million dollars and all your dreams will come true. Trust me!!
I don't think it's coincidental that Connected Nations map matched the independent 3rd party ... I think that's a pretty decent sign it is accurate. The author also holds up e-NC as some sort of AT&T conspiracy. The e-NC data didn't solely rely on AT&T's word as he would have you believe. As denoted right in the bottom of the e-NC maps, which I'm sure he actually looked at, right?

Broadband service percentages presented were derived from e-NC’s analysis of data from providers, census tract data, cable and DSL service areas, and interpolation of all such data. Composite percentages are not averages of Broadband service providers' percentages.

In other words, we didn't just take what AT&T told us at face value, we actually did the legwork to verify it and compare it to other data.

openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru See Profile :

how do we verify the data is accurate and true? Given the way the things are setup there will be no accountability and no way to ensure that what they are telling us is the truth.
And your proposal? Have a person go to every physical address in the country and ask "can you hear me now?" Don't we need to start somewhere, then evaluate the system before casting stones?" Besides, almost anything will be an improvement from the current mapping tactics.

older dog
Premium
join:2005-06-09
Norwich, NY


1 edit
reply to Matt
said by Matt See Profile :

I don't think it's coincidental that Connected Nations map matched the independent 3rd party ... I think that's a pretty decent sign it is accurate.
I have no reason to suspect the present data anymore or less than future reports they may give.

But a corporation has no morality or soul and what it may present honestly today can change with the wind.
The more independent voices that can be brought in to the mix the better.

I don't see Connected Nation as an independent voice but a potentially very deceptive one.


Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

said by older dog See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

I don't think it's coincidental that Connected Nations map matched the independent 3rd party ... I think that's a pretty decent sign it is accurate.
I have no reason to suspect the present data anymore or less than future reports they may give.

But a corporation has no morality or soul and what it may present honestly today can change with the wind.
The more independent voices that can be brought in to the mix the better.
I agree with that, which is why the assertion that Connected Nation and AT&T are somehow in collusion, and e-NC is evidence of that baffles me. I think the author of the original piece had an idea of the conclusion he wanted to make and assembled information around it that "sort of" supported his position.

From what I have seen, I do believe Connected Nation may have a suspect connection to AT&T. But also from what I have seen, Connected Nation's maps match the independent 3rd party maps. So rather than blast Connected Nation and attempt to dismantle them, how about we lobby and push for independent 3rd party reviews on a set timetable? I'm sure that is something that everyone, AT&T included, would be happy to agree to. If not, then perhaps there is something worth looking into.


S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

1 edit
this space for rent
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digitalfreak

join:2005-12-09
49533
reply to openbox9
If I didn't know your agenda better, I'd say you were extremely naive.

openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
Agenda? I'll ask you the same question that I asked ropeguru See Profile, what's your mapping proposal?


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest

No, the onus is on YOU to DEFEND this shitty mapping proposal owned and crafted by AT&T.

How is it in the public interest to send $350 million to AT&T? We know their financial interests are to lie and claim that the country is fully wired for broadband. This proposal would be worse than what we're doing now as it will create an air of legitimacy to the lies being spewed by telco and cableco PR departments.

backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

reply to openbox9
Well considering there are OTHER Providers than AT&T out there, perhaps giving this company the keys to the castle while others are left to wonder if the public data is accurate. If I were AT&T, I'd spend 349 Million on finding out exaclty where the weakneses in Comcasts network were. The other million i'd spend on lunch and vacations for key politians.

Basically anything that didn't give one-sided access to funds and data collection would be preferable.


TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast


1 edit
reply to morbo
said by morbo See Profile :

No, the onus is on YOU to DEFEND this shitty mapping proposal owned and crafted by AT&T.

How is it in the public interest to send $350 million to AT&T?
1st - the mapping proposal isn't owned by AT&T. That is an accusation never proved, by one group - Public Knowledge. »www.publicknowledge.org/node/252···ent-1546

2nd - the money isn't going to AT&T. It would be going to Connected Nation, an independent group.
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sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

reply to Matt
From stopthecap:

The history of this group has demonstrated it has an interest in keeping specifics to a minimum, and inflating broadband penetration levels into the stratosphere. As Broadband Reports wrote, a perfect example is in the state of Kentucky. When independent mapping was completed, it exposed Kentucky had a problem — just 60% of the state had broadband available. Those low numbers might prompt a review of why incumbent telecom companies are not spending some money to wire their less urban customers for service. But with the magic of Connect Kentucky, a sort of regional chapter of Connected Nation, that number jumped to 95% in just five years in a study called dubious, if not outright “methodological malpractice” by Consumers Union.

In North Carolina, the dispute is being played out in a most public way, as Connected Nation, at the behest of a powerful state legislator, has set up a parallel mapping operation to that of the e-NC Authority, a state agency that has been working since 2001 to bring Internet connectivity to rural areas through mapping and through public-private partnerships with telephone companies. While normally Connected Nation can charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for mapping, it is doing the North Carolina map at no cost to the state after a move by the chairman of e-NC’s board to have that organization pay for part of the industry mapping cost failed.

As with all of its mapping, e-NC depends on information from incumbent providers. Through last year and this there was a struggle more prolonged than usual, and the end result was a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) that greatly restricted what the e-NC maps would be able to show.


Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

said by sonicmerlin See Profile :

From stopthecap:

The history of this group has demonstrated it has an interest in keeping specifics to a minimum, and inflating broadband penetration levels into the stratosphere. As Broadband Reports wrote, a perfect example is in the state of Kentucky. When independent mapping was completed, it exposed Kentucky had a problem — just 60% of the state had broadband available. Those low numbers might prompt a review of why incumbent telecom companies are not spending some money to wire their less urban customers for service. But with the magic of Connect Kentucky, a sort of regional chapter of Connected Nation, that number jumped to 95% in just five years in a study called dubious, if not outright “methodological malpractice” by Consumers Union.

In North Carolina, the dispute is being played out in a most public way, as Connected Nation, at the behest of a powerful state legislator, has set up a parallel mapping operation to that of the e-NC Authority, a state agency that has been working since 2001 to bring Internet connectivity to rural areas through mapping and through public-private partnerships with telephone companies. While normally Connected Nation can charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for mapping, it is doing the North Carolina map at no cost to the state after a move by the chairman of e-NC’s board to have that organization pay for part of the industry mapping cost failed.

As with all of its mapping, e-NC depends on information from incumbent providers. Through last year and this there was a struggle more prolonged than usual, and the end result was a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) that greatly restricted what the e-NC maps would be able to show.
That is excellent news. I can't wait for Connected Nation's results to come out so we can compare them to e-NC's. Although I find it a bit ironic that e-NC, a governmental agency, can't release their data because of NDA's but everyone is clamoring for Connected Nation to release theirs.

openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

reply to morbo
said by morbo See Profile :

No, the onus is on YOU to DEFEND this shitty mapping proposal owned and crafted by AT&T.
I asked a simple question that people can't/won't answer. I don't need to defend anything. I'll ask you the same question as ropeguru See Profile and digitalfreak See Profile, what is your proposal?
said by morbo See Profile :

How is it in the public interest to send $350 million to AT&T?
Where did you get that from? How is AT&T getting $350M for broadband mapping?
said by morbo See Profile :

We know their financial interests are to lie and claim that the country is fully wired for broadband.
I don't understand this claim. AT&T only stands to gain more $$ from grants, subsidies, and USF-like slush funds to continue wiring the country if President Obama's administration is truly sincere about wiring the US.
said by morbo See Profile :

This proposal would be worse than what we're doing now as it will create an air of legitimacy to the lies being spewed by telco and cableco PR departments.
You're right, long live mapping by zip code where the US is nearly 100% connected with broadband

openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

reply to backness
AT&T isn't getting this infamous $350M. If Connected Nation does receive the money for mapping connectivity, it doesn't funnel into AT&T's coffers.
said by backness See Profile :

Basically anything that didn't give one-sided access to funds and data collection would be preferable.
Such as?

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to openbox9
For $350 million, yes I do propose that. Not once, but then send another person to validate that information.

backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
reply to openbox9
You could probably do a better job.

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

reply to Matt
Actually stopthecap has a new article about Connected Nation.

It illustrates just how BAD CN's maps in North Carolina in Ohio are compared to independent third parties. This is despite CN getting millions in government funding while independents received nothing.

And by BAD I mean absolutely HORRENDOUS. They show absolutely NOTHING. They don't differentiate between broadband type, price, demographic, or ANYTHING. It's like a 5-year-old made them. Compared to e-NC's maps, CN's maps are so atrociously bad the only possible way they could be considered "adequate" is if they somehow bribed a politician.

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
reply to TKJunkMail
Connected Nation's board is stocked to the brim with telco execs. I can provide you with a link detailing the board members and their significant ties to the big businesses if you actually care.

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

reply to openbox9
Um, AT&T doesn't want the money to be given to smaller independent carriers willing to wire the rest of the gaps. They don't want competition. They also don't want consumers demanding that they provide better service considering their franchise agreements with various cities.
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