MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
| Message to CAIP & CIPPIC
When the CRTC commissioners continually ask, "Where's the money coming from to upgrade the network capacity", somebody has to beat it into their pointed little heads that the money comes from Sympatico customers, and from the $20 per month tariff fee Bell charges for each GAS user an independent ISP brings to the table.
The CRTC seems to have conveniently forgotten that information - especially Konrad.
Hopefully CAIP & CIPPIC can both drum that into them on Thursday. |
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adendum
@videotron.ca | And if UBB does goes through (but not at the killer rates Bell wants), that will be another source of income for capacity. |
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MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17 | said by adendum :
And if UBB does goes through (but not at the killer rates Bell wants), that will be another source of income for capacity.
Shhhhh! |
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Net Citizen
join:2009-01-22
Schenectady, NY
| reply to MaynardKrebs
Assuming the CRTC accepts the guarantee that the usage of wholesaler customers will not adversely affect retail customers and as such, traffic management of wholesale traffic by Bell is unnecessary, would this also debunk the belief that UBB is also required?
While throttling is an important element in the wider war to free ourselves from incumbent tyranny, usage based billing will be the pivotal battle upon which all our hopes of having unfettered and unrestricted internet access will rest.
It's great that I'll be able to get my content at full speed, but when I can do so under the confines of a 60 GB cap, what's the point? |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
 ·Videotron
| reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs  :When the CRTC commissioners continually ask, "Where's the money coming from to upgrade the network capacity", somebody has to beat it into their pointed little heads that the money comes from Sympatico customers, and from the $20 per month tariff fee Bell charges for each GAS user an independent ISP brings to the table. Don't forget the $1800/gigabit/month AHSPPI rate GAS ISPs also have to pay on top of the $20/subscriber/month GAS fee. |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Videotron
| reply to Net Citizen
said by Net Citizen :Assuming the CRTC accepts the guarantee that the usage of wholesaler customers will not adversely affect retail customers and as such, traffic management of wholesale traffic by Bell is unnecessary, would this also debunk the belief that UBB is also required? Very unlikely.
However cheap bandwidth may be after initial equipment deployment costs, there are on-going operating expenses that have to be factored into the "cost of bandwidth" and I am certain that if Bell was willing to be open with numbers, it could probably prove within reasonable doubt that its overall break-even point for $20.50 GAS service is around the 500GB/month mark, possibly less after profit margin allowances and other provisions.
UBB at the GAS+AHSPPI is almost unavoidable if you do not want carriers to push GAS+AHSPPI price hikes so that low-bandwidth users have to subsidize high-bandwidth users on a flat-price model. With actual data costs in the area of $0.001-$0.01/GB, individual ISPs would have plenty of freedom to choose how they want to absorb or distribute the UBB charges.
At $0.005/GB, TSI could simply 'raise' their price for Premium to $29.99 and call it a day. |
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justsomeguy
join:2007-10-08
London, ON
| reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError :said by MaynardKrebs :When the CRTC commissioners continually ask, "Where's the money coming from to upgrade the network capacity", somebody has to beat it into their pointed little heads that the money comes from Sympatico customers, and from the $20 per month tariff fee Bell charges for each GAS user an independent ISP brings to the table. Don't forget the $1800/gigabit/month AHSPPI rate GAS ISPs also have to pay on top of the $20/subscriber/month GAS fee. For all the costs, there is a lot of savings too for GAS isps.
For instance, a company like teksavvy doesnt have to employ thousands of technicians nationwide. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| said by justsomeguy :For all the costs, there is a lot of savings too for GAS isps. For instance, a company like teksavvy doesnt have to employ thousands of technicians nationwide. No, so instead they have to pay Bell to do that. They're not saving money, they're paying for it. It just allows them to offer service in a wider area instead of having to concentrate on individual cities.
TekSavvy is moving to FTTH (very slowly, starting from the purchase of a small FTTH company in rural Ontario). This will require their own technicians. Here they're going to have to take the individual-city approach. |
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qweloo
join:2007-10-04
h3p 2c4
·Bell Sympatico
| said by Guspaz :TekSavvy is moving to FTTH (very slowly, starting from the purchase of a small FTTH company in rural Ontario) For real ?
if yes this is great news. |
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Shada
join:2007-03-09
Stratford, ON | reply to MaynardKrebs
let me know the Rural Area and maybe close enough for a move hehe, I only rent now |
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Kareeser
hm?
Premium
join:2006-07-18
Hamilton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz :
TekSavvy is moving to FTTH (very slowly, starting from the purchase of a small FTTH company in rural Ontario). This will require their own technicians. Here they're going to have to take the individual-city approach.
I find that a little too good to be true. Cite? |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON | reply to InvalidError
What bandwidth costs? This is Bell's own network bandwidth. It doesn't cost them per GB to transfer data. |
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bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to Shada
said by Shada :let me know the Rural Area and maybe close enough for a move hehe, I only rent now Lanark, I believe. Outside of Ottawa, somewhat close to Carleton Place and Perth. |
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bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Guspaz
TekSavvy is moving to FTTH (very slowly, starting from the purchase of a small FTTH company in rural Ontario). This will require their own technicians. Here they're going to have to take the individual-city approach.
Where did you get this info from? I have never heard of this before I might of missed it.
THanks
--
Computer: Intel Quad Core, 2gb OCZ DDr3, EvGA 8800GTS 512mb, 2x Plextor Burners, Corsair 620psu, Antec 900Case, 5mb DSL from teksavvy
»www.MaximumRepair.ca
Computer Repair/Upgrades In Toronto. |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Videotron
| reply to mlerner
said by mlerner :What bandwidth costs? This is Bell's own network bandwidth. It doesn't cost them per GB to transfer data. Infrastructure does not miraculously pop into existence and maintain itself.
If you build a network with a service lifetime of five years and spontaneously self-destructs on its expiration date, the effective cost per gigabyte is the total build, maintenance and operating costs over that period divided by however many gigabytes passed through this network.
While a transit byte has no intrinsic value, it does weigh in in the effective cost equation. Any increase in deployment, maintenance, upgrade and operating costs has to be met with a similar increase in billables.
Part of this is covered by GAS rates and scales with the number of subscribers. Another chunk of it is covered by AHSPPI rates and scales with the amount of traffic ISPs want to be able to push to their subscribers. At the end of the day, the real question is whether or not Bell's margins on these two parts of wholesale ADSL service are sufficient to cover GAS-induced network expenses and allow the development of mostly congestion-free wholesale services.
Basically, we need to answer one of Finck's favorite questions: "Who is going to pay for that?"
To do that, we need to determine if the money already being handed to Bell is sufficient to cover the entirety of GAS-related maintenance, operating and upgrade costs.
Of course, Bell could have spared us all the UBB trouble by simply requesting a $100/month hike on AHSPPI and $1/month on GAS |
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MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
| reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz :TekSavvy is moving to FTTH (very slowly, starting from the purchase of a small FTTH company in rural Ontario). So that's what's in those big plastic-wrapped spools laying in farmer's fields - they're growing a crop of fibre for Teksavvy.
We city-folk learn something new each day. |
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| reply to bryanviper
It was posted in a thread a while back...
They purchased LHnet, but the information on the site in inacurate as to what LHNet will be offering so...
So far peeps know FTTH is coming we just don't know when or what's happening with it, I have no idea when they would be offering this in the city.
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
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MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
| reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError :Basically, we need to answer one of Finck's favorite questions: "Who is going to pay for that?" To do that, we need to determine if the money already being handed to Bell is sufficient to cover the entirety of GAS-related maintenance, operating and upgrade costs. Go back to the original GAS tariff hearings and discussions ( 5+ years ago - archived on the CRTC web site) and you'll find that it's fully costed + profit at about 15% for Bell.
Don't forget to look at the market share slide in JF's presentation (original data from the CRTC's own Reports to the Governor in Council). You'll see that incumbent telco's & cableco's have stolen huge marketshare from independents (more so cable than telco). In 'stealing' those customers from independents the telcos have had to install upgraded capacity for their own customers anyway.
And when installing that new capacity, they are installing for their own growth forecasts as well as any additional business they pick-up via the 'churn' from cable/satellite/fixed wireless or independent ISP's. So a lot of the capacity they 'need' is already built-out.
Sometimes all they need is another line card in a router, or a 'bigger' software license in order to serve 10,000 more customers. At $20/month from a CAIP member, that translates into $2.4MM in incremental annual revenue if all 10,000 new customers came from an independent ISP - against say $800,00 in one-time costs to Bell -- if they needed to add any additional hardware or software licences. |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Videotron
| said by MaynardKrebs :Go back to the original GAS tariff hearings and discussions ( 5+ years ago - archived on the CRTC web site) and you'll find that it's fully costed + profit at about 15% for Bell. And when installing that new capacity, they are installing for their own growth forecasts as well as any additional business they pick-up via the 'churn' from cable/satellite/fixed wireless or independent ISP's. So a lot of the capacity they 'need' is already built-out. Costs change, utilization patterns change. Five years is an eternity in the internet world, a cost reevaluation is probably overdue.
As for the new capacity being already built out, Bell's current claim is that it is encountering congestion and until this claim is thoroughly dispelled, we cannot operate under the presumption that Bell has spades of unused bandwidth on-hands across its network. |
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MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
| said by InvalidError :As for the new capacity being already built out, Bell's current claim is that it is encountering congestion and until this claim is thoroughly dispelled, we cannot operate under the presumption that Bell has spades of unused bandwidth on-hands across its network. Chicken Little said the sky was falling too. Neither Bell, nor Chicken Little, offered any proof. |
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