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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

2 edits
reply to dellsweig

Re: Undersized Power supplies from Linksys.

That's not a bad analogy. I don't know what the current demand looks on these routers but under-powered power supplies will coincide current demand with voltage dips. 12V may dip to 9V if it's really bad. "Distortion" means it's not a solid 12VDC. That's what a scope would easily see.

There's also the possibility the 12V@5A supply you're using is supplying more like 13, 14, 15VDC when lightly loaded - but the performance benefit comes with it. I don't know the power distribution but most modern switching power handlers are pretty tolerant over a large voltage range (it may never blow something but I could never say that fact is assured).

Anyone got a DC meter and can get on that voltage may be telling.

EDIT: Dellsweig, is that power supply "heavy"? The picture tells me is is NOT a linear supply with a heavy transformer but a light one which is surely a switcher type. Most are these days. A properly designed switcher type will often have better regulation, too. What about the original?

IRON = heavy transformer = linear supply
Light = switcher = poor design can cause problems but usually better and surely "green".

thedragonmas

join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
kudos:1
said by Bill_MI:

EDIT: Dellsweig, is that power supply "heavy"? The picture tells me is is NOT a linear supply with a heavy transformer but a light one which is surely a switcher type. Most are these days. A properly designed switcher type will often have better regulation, too. What about the original?

IRON = heavy transformer = linear supply
Light = switcher = poor design can cause problems but usually better and surely "green".
i can tell you the ac adapter that came with my wrt54gl weights practically nothing. if my volt meter didnt die on me a few months ago id be glad to give ya numbers.


peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC
Has anyone tried it on a WRT54GL ?


dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
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join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1
said by peter_m:

Has anyone tried it on a WRT54GL ?
Just tried my 12V 5A supply on my WRT54GL - G Ap.

Saw a 10% improvement of WLAN to WAN speeds - still not as fast as my WRT310N for the same test.

Saw increase in signal quality and strength - about 10%

During WLAN to LAN IPERF file test - I saw less drops in the graphs - more consistent transfer

I think I will order another one of these for my WRT54GL - nice to see the same type of improvement as I have been seeing with the WRT310N


peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC

3 edits
Excellent and thank you Dellsweig.
Going from the stock 1 amp to 5 amps sounds a little extreme. Are you able to measure how many amps the WRT54GL is drawing under load?

It might make for a physically smaller and more economical PSU...

Peter


dellsweig
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join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1
said by peter_m:

Excellent and thank you Dellsweig.
Going from the stock 1 amp to 5 amps sounds a little extreme. Are you able to measure how many amps the WRT54GL is drawing under load?

It might make for a physically smaller and more economical PSU...

Peter
I am strictly making observations on performance - I would not attempt to give you the electrical details.

As for size - the power blocks linksys (and other vendors) supply are a real pain - they generally dont fit on a power strip. The PS I picked up uses a simple yankee cord to the strip. Also - there is no downside to having sufficient power available - thats not to say that a 2a supply would not be fine - this is just what I purchased.


dellsweig
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join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to peter_m
said by peter_m:

Excellent and thank you Dellsweig.
Going from the stock 1 amp to 5 amps sounds a little extreme. Are you able to measure how many amps the WRT54GL is drawing under load?

It might make for a physically smaller and more economical PSU...

Peter
Yet another SUCCESS story by upgrading the powersupply

»www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.···start=75

This is such a no-brainer - I wonder why EVERYONE isnt running out and doing this??


dellsweig
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join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1
reply to peter_m
said by peter_m:

Excellent and thank you Dellsweig.
Going from the stock 1 amp to 5 amps sounds a little extreme. Are you able to measure how many amps the WRT54GL is drawing under load?

It might make for a physically smaller and more economical PSU...

Peter
Peter

On the dd-wrt forum - power supply thread

»www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.···start=75

There is a graph showing signal and noise at 2A and at 5A

This shows that even 2 amps is not enough

HTH


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
reply to dellsweig
said by dellsweig:

said by peter_m:

Excellent and thank you Dellsweig.
Going from the stock 1 amp to 5 amps sounds a little extreme. Are you able to measure how many amps the WRT54GL is drawing under load?

It might make for a physically smaller and more economical PSU...

Peter
Yet another SUCCESS story by upgrading the powersupply

»www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.···start=75

This is such a no-brainer - I wonder why EVERYONE isnt running out and doing this??
Because not a single person has taken the effort to bring any of this to light with Cisco/Linksys. Until that happens, most customers are going to take this with a grain of salt.

Someone will need to get in touch with the right folks (specifically engineers) at Cisco/Linksys to discuss it, and have something done about it. If there's no response, keep trying other methods of contact.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC

1 edit
said by koitsu:

said by dellsweig:

said by peter_m:

Excellent and thank you Dellsweig.
Going from the stock 1 amp to 5 amps sounds a little extreme. Are you able to measure how many amps the WRT54GL is drawing under load?

It might make for a physically smaller and more economical PSU...

Peter
Yet another SUCCESS story by upgrading the powersupply

»www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.···start=75

This is such a no-brainer - I wonder why EVERYONE isnt running out and doing this??
Because not a single person has taken the effort to bring any of this to light with Cisco/Linksys. Until that happens, most customers are going to take this with a grain of salt.

Someone will need to get in touch with the right folks (specifically engineers) at Cisco/Linksys to discuss it, and have something done about it. If there's no response, keep trying other methods of contact.
Koitsu,
call me pessimistic but I think it would be a waste of time. We are talking about a $59 off the shelf product. Good luck getting an engineer. I think we have more chances of one of them stumbling on this thread and reading it then one of us calling techsupport.

Just my opinion,
Peter


dellsweig
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join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1

2 edits
said by peter_m:

Koitsu,
call me pessimistic but I think it would be a waste of time. We are talking about a $59 off the shelf product. Good luck getting an engineer. I think we have more chances of one of them stumbling on this thread and reading it then one of us calling techsupport.

Just my opinion,
Peter
I am convinced Cisco KNOWS the PS is an issue.

I have RMA'd a few WRT54G's and one WRT310N over the years. During the phone process with the Indian script reader, one of the tests they have you do EVERYTIME is to ask if you have another power supply and to swap that in to see if it fixes the problem

In fact, the WRT310N I RMA'd went back with a 1A power supply and the new/recond one had a 2A with an RF choke in the power line.


peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC

1 recommendation

We can only hope they do something about it then.

I have hard time wrapping my head around the 5amp/12v PSU. I see the graphs and believe your data to be genuine. Just that it's 60 watts we're talking about! 60 watts should not be required for a device that doesn't heat up that much...

What could be causing the problem? The regulator inside to the WRT not handling sudden spikes in the power consumption? Power capacitors being too small?

Has anyone considered a 15v 2amp PSU? The internal voltage regulator can probably handle it...

Peter


Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
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join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

1 recommendation

Peter, we're thinking the same. It's far more complex than getting down to ampere rating on commodity cut-rate power supplies. But no one is getting a meter on the delivered voltage - I'd wager it's ending up greater than 12VDC.

Someone familiar with the radio module may be able to confirm if it runs directly off the incoming voltage and gets "happier" with more incoming voltage. Transmit power is very "bursty" in nature and I wouldn't doubt there's some "good enough" in the design for handling sharp demand.

Everything else is surely off regulated 3.3V which should never notice such incoming fluctuations - if it does it's really a bad design.


peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC

1 edit

1 recommendation

said by Bill_MI:

Peter, we're thinking the same.
I'm glad someone understood me... I feel better now. Thanks


Tursiops_G
Technoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-06
Norwalk, CT
kudos:1

1 edit
Just adding a little perspective to this discussion...

Yes, the evidence presented here so far, indicates that the Linksys OEM 1 Amp PS is deficient (and possibly even a 2 Amp unit, as well...)

As to the Actual Cost of the various replacement PSUs available from 12vAdapters.com (Prices are + Shipping and Handling, and are all the Same at $6.99 US, $8.99 CA):
»www.12vadapters.com/categories

1A (Linear): $14.99
1.25A (SMPS): $14.99
2A (SMPS): $16.99
2.5A (SMPS): $16.99
3A (SMPS): $16.99
3.5A (SMPS): $17.99
4A (SMPS): $18.99
5A (SMPS): $19.99
6A (SMPS): $22.99

I Do Agree that the 5A PSU may indeed be a bit of "Overkill", but at THESE prices, Unless someone here decides to try out the 3A-4A PSUs, and post their results to this Forum, the 5A unit is worth the extra $2-3...

-Tursiops_G.
--
If You're Unsure, "RTFM"... If You're SURE, "RTFM" Anyway.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
said by Tursiops_G:

Just adding a little perspective to this discussion...

Yes, the evidence presented here so far, indicates that the Linksys OEM 1 Amp PS is deficient (and possibly even a 2 Amp unit, as well...)

As to the Actual Cost of the various replacement PSUs available from 12vAdapters.com (Prices are + Shipping and Handling, and are all the Same at $6.99 US, $8.99 CA):
»www.12vadapters.com/categories

1A (Linear): $14.99
1.25A (SMPS): $14.99
2A (SMPS): $16.99
2.5A (SMPS): $16.99
3A (SMPS): $16.99
3.5A (SMPS): $17.99
4A (SMPS): $18.99
5A (SMPS): $19.99
6A (SMPS): $22.99

I Do Agree that the 5A PSU may indeed be a bit of "Overkill", but at THESE prices, Unless someone here decides to try out the 3A-4A PSUs, and post their results to this Forum, the 5A unit is worth the extra $2-3...

-Tursiops_G.
UM why not power it with the computer i have done this before

with my linksys wrt54g v 1.0 25amps of power that it can use


dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1
no reason why you cant use the PS from your PC - as long as you dont exceed the 12V number.

The bottom line here

the stock PS that comes with the Linksys and other vendors is too small and most likely is causeing many of the issues (signal loss, reboots, bad signal, etc) seen in this and other forums.

A CHEAP and simple solution is to replace it with a PS that has the resources to correctly power your router.


Tursiops_G
Technoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-06
Norwalk, CT
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Anonymous_
Powering it from the PC's PSU is another option (provided that your PSU isn't already being loaded close to the Max, that is.)

The Downside of doing so, is that the "Source" PC MUST be powered-up 24/7 in order to provide +12v to the Router... A bit of a hassle when you may only want to connect Wirelessly via a Laptop/PDA/Game, etc., or from a Different (wired) PC elsewhere on the LAN...

-Tursiops_G.
--
If You're Unsure, "RTFM"... If You're SURE, "RTFM" Anyway.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit
said by Tursiops_G:

Powering it from the PC's PSU is another option (provided that your PSU isn't already being loaded close to the Max, that is.)

The Downside of doing so, is that the "Source" PC MUST be powered-up 24/7 in order to provide +12v to the Router... A bit of a hassle when you may only want to connect Wirelessly via a Laptop/PDA/Game, etc., or from a Different (wired) PC elsewhere on the LAN...

-Tursiops_G.
nah i would just get a used PSU(wall wart type) at the local thrift shop they have a huge selection
upto 36volt DC/AC


drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
reply to dellsweig
A *discrete* RF choke, or a ferrite filter?


dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1
said by drjim:

A *discrete* RF choke, or a ferrite filter?
about a 1 inch diamerter loop

public

join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
reply to dellsweig
said by dellsweig:

the stock PS that comes with the Linksys and other vendors is too small and most likely is causeing many of the issues (signal loss, reboots, bad signal, etc) seen in this and other forums.
Actually the WRT54gl can operate with 12V/0.5A
The problem is that the cheap wall cubes use inferior components and do not deliver 0.5A dc for long.