Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
1 edit | reply to JoelC707
Re: New house: cat5e/cat6 type for wiring?
said by JoelC707  :Sure there are exceptions to everything but why would you suggest NOT using the "specialist" in this case? We have a little company down here called Black Box who has totally dominated the commercial low voltage wiring segment of the construction industry.
How did they manage to do that in this very competitive market? It is the result of the overall incompetence of the electrical contracting industry down here.
Project delays due to improper wiring and improper termination of network cabling by major electrical contracting companies down here where the norm prior to Black-Boxes entry to the industry, now that they are around most electrical contractors bids are passed on even if they are lower priced.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician |
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JoelC707
join:2002-07-09
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| reply to jeffmoss26
Ya know what I like about that comment? He states to not use a low voltage tech to do this work. Last I checked Ethernet wiring WAS low voltage. In other words he is saying to not use the person who has specifically trained to do this type of work. Sure there are exceptions to everything but why would you suggest NOT using the "specialist" in this case? |
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jeffmoss26
join:2002-07-22
Beachwood, OH
| reply to sponk
I take offense to this:
'Never hire a low voltage or telephone guy to do this type of work. They have no idea what they are doing and do not know how to follow electrical code. Always use an electrician. I can't tell you how many "professional" low voltage installers I've have to clean up after just to pass a rough inspection.'
I have yet to see a competent residential electrician in my city who can do low voltage work. I am constantly called in to clean up their so-called work. I may not be an ex-Bell tech but I have been trained by professionals and I take a great deal of pride in my work. I have been on commercial jobs where the electricians were total hacks and their work did not pass the rough inspection. We could go back and forth all day on this. |
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Speedy Petey
join:2008-01-19
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :If contractor does not even know what BICSI is I'd run away. Really? I think this is a bit over dramatic. Especially considering the fact that only 25,000 people WORLD WIDE are certified by them and probably hundreds of thousands, if not millions, worldwide do this type of work in today's world.
I have never heard of them and I am pretty damn good at network cabling, not to mention an internet junkie.
said by tschmidt :You may not be certified by I imagine you are able to convenience prospective customer you know what you are doing. I have to humbly admit. I have no idea what you mean by this.
said by tschmidt :BTW it's not my company I'm just a homeowner. I didn't mean to imply it was.
The "your" comment was tongue-in-cheek. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
1 edit | reply to Speedy Petey
said by Speedy Petey : Come on. Being "certified" by some outfit does not make you "qualified". Did you realize that your certification company only serves less than 25,000 IT professionals...around the WORLD. If customer has no other way to verify contractor knows what they are doing checking certs is useful. If contractor does not even know what BICSI is I'd run away. You may not be certified but I imagine you are able to convince prospective customer you know what you are doing. BTW it's not my company I'm just a homeowner.
/tom
fixed typo |
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cowboyro
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·Comcast
 ·Optimum Voice
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :said by cowboyro :They "tested" with a laptop - if there was a link then it was assumed to be good  I'm surprised the contract did not require certification. That is the norm for commercial installations. Not with the cheapest contractor hired by a cheap company. |
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Speedy Petey
join:2008-01-19
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :You want to make sure the electrical contractor is familiar with communication wiring. Ask if they are BICSI certified. Someone on staff should be a Registered Communications Distribution Designer (RCDD). » https:// www.bicsi.org/default.aspx Come on. Being "certified" by some outfit does not make you "qualified". Did you realize that your certification company only serves less than 25,000 IT professionals...around the WORLD. What is that, 5% of the total work force? I would hardly call them an industry standard.
And an RCDD??? Like every company needs that.
We are NOT talking about IT wiring for a 50 story office building. I would not even attempt that myself. We are talking about a home network.
I can wire ANY small office or home network with the best of 'em. I have for years. I have IT guys who don't like to get dirty have me do their wiring for them, and that includes terminations. |
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ex bell
@cgocable.net
| reply to nunya
said by nunya :Well, if you want to get into a pissing match, I'll say that I can out wire 99% of Bell guys. Why, you ask? I was Bell trained when it was the "Bell System" way or the highway. Then I went on to keep learning. I have more licenses and certifications than I know what to do with. I would have to venture that I am at about 99.9% better than any of the electricians at this.
A few decades at "old school" Bell (thus ex-bell) and a over a decade since then doing this everyday.
Actually make that 100% to date from any electricians I have seen or heard of to date. I'm sure there is one out there.
Maybe it's you.  But I doubt it's his electrician. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
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| reply to nunya
said by nunya :My advice to the OP: don't be scared of letting your electrician do what they need to. Wiring practices and training have changed drastically over the last couple of decades. As long as you are comfortable with your contractor and they do right by you, that's all that counts. You want to make sure the electrical contractor is familiar with communication wiring. Ask if they are BICSI certified. Someone on staff should be a Registered Communications Distribution Designer (RCDD).
»https://www.bicsi.org/default.aspx
Communication wiring is not magic but like anything else it requires unique skills and techniques.
/tom |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
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| reply to sponk
Well, if you want to get into a pissing match, I'll say that I can out wire 99% of Bell guys. Why, you ask? I was Bell trained when it was the "Bell System" way or the highway. Then I went on to keep learning. I have more licenses and certifications than I know what to do with.
And... I do much better on my own than I ever did with Bell. So na na na na boo boo.
My advice to the OP: don't be scared of letting your electrician do what they need to. Wiring practices and training have changed drastically over the last couple of decades. As long as you are comfortable with your contractor and they do right by you, that's all that counts.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America. |
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ex bell
@cgocable.net
| reply to nunya
said by nunya :No need for everyone to get their panties in a bunch. I was dishing a tongue-in-cheek response to this previous post on page 2. I don't think they got their panties tied up as just confirmed what I said.
But hey, you electricians go for it. I make more money to come in and redo everything.
I don't do electrical and I wouldn't let my GP operate on me either. |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
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| reply to sponk
If I read correct you plan on having your electrician run this wire. Beware because many electricians have no idea how to properly run and install voice/data cabling. I've had to clean up many a mess when someone hired their electricians.
I would let them home run all the cables and then have someone else come do all the terminations, but that is just me.
I do a lot of cabling and I get most everything from Graybar. I do not trust places like Monoprice, Deep Surplus, etc. I use General Cable and Leviton jacks/plates/patch panels.
No need for everyone to get their panties in a bunch. I was dishing a tongue-in-cheek response to this previous post on page 2.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Hollis Hosting
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| reply to cowboyro
said by cowboyro :They "tested" with a laptop - if there was a link then it was assumed to be good I'm surprised the contract did not require certification. That is the norm for commercial installations.
/tom |
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cowboyro
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
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·Optimum Voice
| reply to jhboricua
said by jhboricua :Yea there are some low voltage duffers out there but they equal to or are exceeded by the number of electrical contractors who are just as incompetent with low voltage cabling. +1
My previous office has been re-done "professionally" by electricians after re-carpeting, I had to fix one third of the outlets after they left (from wrong pairs resulting in errors to not wiring all the 8 wires - so no gigabit speeds). YUCK!
They "tested" with a laptop - if there was a link then it was assumed to be good |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| reply to Splitpair
said by Splitpair :Yea there are some low voltage duffers out there but they equal to or are exceeded by the number of electrical contractors who are just as incompetent with low voltage cabling. Wayne Amen to that! I can't tell you the number of times I ran into the issues you described with electricians being completely clueless on the installation of low voltage wiring.
My favorite is the landscaping business that wanted fiber run to several different kiosks around their main facility. Their electricians keep insisting they were the best qualified to do the work to the owner, so in the end, he didn't award the laying of the cable to us, only the termination.
What do you know, the electricians used a pickup truck to pull all the different 500' to 1k' runs. The cable looked like a handset cord when they were done pulling it. Needless to say, more than 80% of the strands were useless. Not that I'm complaining, we made some good money on the unnecessary repeat visits because of the fiber instability.
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * |
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tmh
@qwest.net
| reply to Metatron2008
said by Metatron2008 :What the hell are people saying about Cat5e? If you plan on living at this house long term I'd say nothing but Cat6. These people telling this are the same who were saying 640k of ram is all you'd ever need. In this country, you'd hit your cap in about 30 seconds at CAT6 speeds. |
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tmh
@qwest.net
| reply to leibold
said by leibold :That statement is correct, but consider using plenum cable even if you are not required to use it. That might be overkill.
Plenum cables minimize the emission of smoke and toxic gases when heated. That's important in the plenum because the ducts are used for ventilation and will spread toxic gases rapidly throughout the building much faster than a localized fire. In fact, intelligent HVAC systems are designed to shutdown when smoke detectors signal that a fire is present.
It's much less of a problem outside the plenum. In a fire, there's plenty of other toxic stuffbeing released, the additional pollutant from the cable isn't going to make any difference. |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| reply to sponk
A little late to the party but i'll chime in with what I would do:
For a single story house with a unfinished basement/drop ceiling - DON'T run any cables now.
2 story - run a riser from basement/wiring room to 2nd floor attic (if you have one).
I have a single story house and have a 2" innerduct I installed when I redid my office. I did not install any jacks into my office.
Why? I will just install a LV (low voltage) box wherever it "fits in" when I put all my furniture in. I can then measure and drill up from the basement (drop ceiling) and run my cables. ALL my rooms will be done like this when I am "finishing" each one.
The innerduct is there primarily for my AP (cat6 POE to AP) and for eventual security cams. I also have a 3" EMT run on the opposite wall for any future power requirements.
It is a bit ass backwards - but for ME I prefer it. I'd rather not have a wall plate in the middle of a room and then have to snake several ethernet cables around the room. If I change furniture I can either re-run the cables and put a wall blank over the LV box - or deal with it at the time.
If you are dealing with a 2 story house with no attic/basement (or finished basement) then of course this changes - but in my case it's been working out quite well. |
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tmh
@qwest.net
| reply to sponk
said by sponk :Thanks so much for the replies!! So I'll go for cat5e unshielded solid cable then. I am also running a RG6 coax and a cat3 phone line to each room. Sponk, I'd just run cat5e for all, then terminate differently for the phone line. It'll save you from having to buy another spool of a different cable.
said by sponk :Side question: Do you know of any deals on cat5e cables around Middletown, NJ area? If there's a local supplier, I might pick them up. Alternatively, I can order online but would need it by the end of the week since then the wiring work will commence! Try BlackBox (www.blackbox.com). They will have everything you want (and then some), have excellent service, and can ship fast. Their GigaBase bulk cable is very good.
tmh |
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tmh
@qwest.net
| reply to cdru
said by cdru :If you are running your own lines and not being charged a per-drop fee, I personally would run 2 lines to the middle of every wall, or at least 2 runs per room on opposite walls, plus anywhere else where one might naturally need an network connection This is so true. There's no such thing as too much wire. As your gadgets grow, so will your need for more drops. I put three drops in my study about five years ago, and now they're all doubled up to support six IP devices (1 IP cam, 2 PCs, 2 printers, and 1 scanner). |
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