JAAulde
yum yum yum yum yum
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-09
Hagerstown, MD
| reply to sponk
Re: New house: cat5e/cat6 type for wiring?
Great deal on 1000 feet of CAT6 PVC Solid: »www.deepsurplus.com/Network-Stru···id-Cable |
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI | reply to a_large_rock
Many municipalities have changed their regulations to require that all low-volt use Plenum/fire-rated rated cable for all new installs. In our area, all work permitted after Sept 1 of this year requires it. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| said by quetwo  :Many municipalities have changed their regulations to require that all low-volt use Plenum/fire-rated rated cable for all new installs. That's strange interesting. So low-voltage wiring needs to be Plenum rated but power wiring using Romex is PVC. There is a lot more insulation in a Romex cable then Cat rated cable.
/tom |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to PolarBear
said by PolarBear :If your house is burning down, who gives a shit if the cable burns, too? The reason for Plenum rated cable is to delay the onset of combustion until the space is already incompatible with life. This is important if cable is in air handling ducts but I agree it is overkill for residential use.
/tom |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Fireblade
said by Fireblade :Doing anything less than CAT6 is a poor investment, a waste of time and money. said by C0deZer0 :Think Long term. Yea, 10/100 might be fine now, but for how long? And would you really want to tear apart the walls again to upgrade those cables? Fiber it if you can, Cat6 if not. What exactly are you proposing.
Cat 5e supports 10/100/1000 Ethernet. Cat 6A is needed for 10G.
I love fiber but I think its use will be very limited in a residential setting. If I had to bet I'd say in a couple of decades there will be very little wired communication in the average home, replaced by wireless networks. Coax will also probably fade in importance as video moves to IP based technology.
As the saying goes predicting the future is hard. Rather then trying to figure out what the dominate technology will be decades from now accept the fact it is impossible to know and include infrastructure that makes it easier to upgrade later.
/tom |
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Waterbug
join:2008-03-30
1 edit | reply to C0deZer0
said by C0deZer0 :Think Long term. Yea, 10/100 might be fine now, but for how long? And would you really want to tear apart the walls again to upgrade those cables? Fiber it if you can, Cat6 if not. Exactly how is the OP supposed to terminate that fiber? It isn't compatible with copper. If he wants to run fiber for the future, fine, but he still needs copper for use until fiber service becomes available to the premise. For home networking, there is no fiber solution, only copper or wireless.
EDIT: Fiber only conducts light. The last time I checked, there was no light coming out the end of any copper wiring.  |
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dakota91
@charter.com
| reply to sponk
Sponk,
Just do a search on 1/2" innerduct and you will find lots of places that sell it. It's more expensive per foot than cable, but once installed you'll never have to rip it out. You can get either plenum or non-plenum. For areas where you expect to have many cables, you can purchase larger diameter innerduct. Of course, you can also install multiple smaller innerduct or PVC to a single junction box for larger cable or multiple smaller cables.
There are a couple of ways to save money considering that you only need the innerduct within the enclosed spaces. Running from a standard height wall outlet to a basement opening might only require just a couple of feet (you can run your wiring in the opening between floor joists in the basement and use the innerduct only to get through the wall.
If you don't want to purchase innerduct, a cheaper solution is PVC pipe. The disadvantage of PVC is that it isn't flexible; however, that may not be a issue if you're going from a junction box straight down to an open basement. Another option is to use the cheaper PVC for long straight runs and use the flexible innerduct only for the areas where you have twists and turns. |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
1 edit | reply to Waterbug
said by Waterbug :said by C0deZer0 :Think Long term. Yea, 10/100 might be fine now, but for how long? And would you really want to tear apart the walls again to upgrade those cables? Fiber it if you can, Cat6 if not. Exactly how is the OP supposed to terminate that fiber? It isn't compatible with copper. If he wants to run fiber for the future, fine, but he still needs copper for use until fiber service becomes available to the premise. For home networking, there is no fiber solution, only copper or wireless. EDIT: Fiber only conducts light. The last time I checked, there was no light coming out the end of any copper wiring. I would argue that there is a 'home solution', but it's expensive. Even if you need copper/coax from the NID/Demarc that's fine. You can run that independently, 1 CAT5e, 1 RG6, and 1 MM Fiber jumper from an outside Demarc to an internal distribution panel.
edit to add:
They make self termination kits for fiber that are relatively inexpensive. Last time I looked it was ~$50 or so per connector..but it's been awhile.
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If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with?
Obama 2008 - Where Transparent = Opaque |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
1 edit | reply to Metatron2008
<sarcasm>
Might as well install all CAT 7,000 for everything, I guess. Who knows what you will need 1,000,000 years in the future!
</sarcasm>
(Forgot that angle brackets don't display without codes.)
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Waterbug
said by Waterbug :Exactly how is the OP supposed to terminate that fiber? It isn't compatible with copper. If he wants to run fiber for the future, fine, but he still needs copper for use until fiber service becomes available to the premise. For home networking, there is no fiber solution, only copper or wireless. EDIT: Fiber only conducts light. The last time I checked, there was no light coming out the end of any copper wiring. At least with fiber, you only have to pay to install the cable once. What'd need to be 'upgraded' later, is the equipment at the ends of the cable, and at least that falls into Moore's Law (meaning it will get cheaper and faster down the line).
The fiber could then be used for damned near anything - video, voice, data, so on. All you have to worry about then is having the correct adapters/terminators (whatever you call them) at the ends.
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Front Line Force Fortress Forever |
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to NormanS
said by NormanS :<sarcasm> Might as well install all CAT 7,000 for everything, I guess. Who knows what you will need 1,000,000 years in the future! </sarcasm> (Forgot that angle brackets don't display without codes.) By that logic, we might as well start making five year home loans, because by then the thing will need to be replaced and rebuilt, too. 
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Front Line Force Fortress Forever |
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Speedy Petey
join:2008-01-19
| reply to sponk
Unless you NEED fiber NOW, to even suggest running it in a home is a joke.
Even Cat6 is useless. Who cares bout 10-20 years from now????? By that time something else will be around and the Cat6 will be outdated.
I am all for preparing for the future, but there is most certainly something called overkill. |
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bigfitch
Premium
join:2005-06-01
Murrayville, IL
clubs:
| reply to sponk
How is running fiber in a home a joke?? I have Fiber Running out to our Utility Shed where we have a computer setup for the shop use and also out to the workshop. I use fiber converters and put them into a 12 port gig switch that my main router works on. I have yet to run in to any problem and never have to worry about it. I also have a fiber drop behind my home theater system in the living room. Off hand I think it was a bit more because I had more hardware than just drop a line here and there.
To some it may be a waste to others thinking ahead for the future is easier than re fishing walls of cable.
My $ .02 |
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JoelC707
join:2002-07-09
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| reply to NormanS
said by NormanS :said by C0deZer0 :Think Long term. Yea, 10/100 might be fine now, but for how long? And would you really want to tear apart the walls again to upgrade those cables? Eh? CAT 5e support Gig-E. Nobody is selling 10Gig-E anything at this time. 3/4s of my equipment is still only Fast Ethernet (100 Mb/s), and not likely to be upgraded over the next three years. And, when it is, only to Gig-E, for which CAT 5e is good enough. Nobody selling 10GigE anything? Might want to look that up first. High end core routers from Cisco, Juniper and the like have had 10GigE options available for years. And there have been 10GigE cards available in PCI Express format though I don't know for how long. Here's a link to what I found on google for "10 gig nic": »www.myri.com/Myri-10G/10gbe_solutions.html. Though in the context of this discussion, Cat5e/Cat6 is irrelevant because from what I have found most of not all use fiber instead of RJ-45 connected copper. There are copper based cards from that supplier but they are CX4 cables, though I will admit I'm not even sure what those cables look like. |
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JoelC707
join:2002-07-09
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| reply to sponk
If you get the wiring from Home Depot, I think Riser rated is the "lowest" you can go. I haven't seen general cable for sale anywhere locally though that's the point of the Internet, to get what you can't locally. And I'd imagine it would be cheaper than Riser which could draw you towards it. The idea behind plenum is for offices where you have an open air return. The space above the drop ceiling tiles is the air return plenum. This is also the space your cables will run. In a multi-tenant building if you had a fire in your suite and the cable burns it can release toxic fumes which then get sucked into the air handler and it spreads it out across the building. Romex is generally not used in commercial installs so it's PVC jacket is not an issue.
Cat 6 is the best option for copper based future proofing. Cat5e will work and it will handle 10GigE speeds though not at the same distances. Actually it probably would provided you don't have any interference from outside sources. As much as I like fiber I don't think it is truely necessary just yet. A couple of years ago I helped my dad rewire our house in Atlanta. We had plenty of fiber to run a few runs to various areas but we couldn't think of a case where it would have been better than copper so we didn't use it.
The innerduct suggestion is an excellent one. I wouldn't use straight PVC for the long runs though. Get rigid conduit instead, that's what it is designed for. PVC is designed for carrying water. Though I'll admit I've used 1/2" PVC to run a couple cables under a sidewalk. You could use conduit all the way but if you consider this route make sure to watch how many bends you have in each run. 360* of bends or more and you'll never get the cable through there. Even 240* or more will be a tough chore for a pull string/pull tape.
Since you have the walls open now would be the time to do innerduct/conduit. It would be the only way to truly future proof the install. Just know that it will pretty much double your install costs if not more depending on the conduit costs. You'd still have to buy most if not all of the original cable and now you've got innerduct/conduit to buy as well. You could lessen it some by leaving empty conduits where you would have originally stuck a cable there that may or may not have gotten used. Likewise with conduit if you have multiple locations in one room but only want to use the cable in one spot (such as moving the TV from one wall to another), you don't have to pull a new drop. It might be more work but if it is long enough you could pull the old cable out and move it to the "spare" conduit and then just swap faceplates on the boxes. |
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Speedy Petey
join:2008-01-19
| reply to bigfitch
said by bigfitch :How is running fiber in a home a joke?? I have Fiber Running out to our Utility Shed where we have a computer setup for the shop use and also out to the workshop. I use fiber converters and put them into a 12 port gig switch that my main router works on. And you are also a premium member at DSLReports.com.
OK, maybe it should have read "Unless you WANT or NEED it...."
My point was it makes no sense to run it "just in case". |
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :I love fiber but I think its use will be very limited in a residential setting. If I had to bet I'd say in a couple of decades there will be very little wired communication in the average home, replaced by wireless networks. Coax will also probably fade in importance as video moves to IP based technology. You're thinking too small.
Fiber is good for more than just internet access. You could use it to run your landline with, your ethernet for LAN support, and being able to say, stow your expensive home theater equipment and running the HDMI grade video and audio out to the TV at the other end of the room and speakers. Just a matter of setting the appropriate channels with your terminators or whatever it's called that would be at the ends of the lines.
The beauty with fiber is that it can technically grow with you because the research now is being focused on the equipment at each end of those cables, to be able to push more data through the same amount of light. So at least you're not going to have to rip out the walls open again as fiber is pushed further along.
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Front Line Force Fortress Forever |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | reply to sponk
I would go with Cat.6. It's not much more expensive than Cat.5 if you buy from www.monoprice.com and you are future proof for a while.
I wired 34 drops in my house with Cat6 and no regrets. |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to sponk
»www.broadbandutopia.com/composite.html
Here's what you need.
Just make sure it's multi-mode fiber (not single mode). You can get the fiber converters for less than $50 a pop, or just use the Cat5 until the fiber becomes necessary.
With the way wireless is going, I have a feeling none of this will be necessary in the future.
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Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America. |
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL | That's actually a brilliant suggestion.  |
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