New house: cat5e/cat6 type for wiring? Page 4

Author	All Replies
alchav join:2002-05-17 Palm Desert, CA ·Pacific Bell - SBC	reply to sponk Re: New house: cat5e/cat6 type for wiring? said by sponk : Hello, my new house is currently being built and the walls are still open. I would like to wire all rooms for ethernet; however, I'm quite confused by the different kinds of cables available (i.e. Shielded vs Unshielded, Solid vs Stranded etc..). What kind of wire do you suggest I use? Thanks, appreciate any input!! Okay Sponk, this is a very important decision and has to be planned right. I did the same thing to my house when it was being built 10 years ago, but I had some knowledge of Wiring and Ethernet. I retired from PacBell and then did some Contracting in the Silicone Valley, and worked with Companies where everything was Wired and Ethernet was a way of life. So I wired my house the same way using Cat5e, but now it should be at least Cat6 in Conduit. I put a run into every room, including my Living Room behind my Entertainment Center, and boy do I use this connection. I ran everything to a wall in my garage where I have shelves and a Patch Jack for my Modem and Router. I still feel Wired is the only way to go, especially with High Definition Video and Sound. People keep thinking Wireless, but even the Electronic Companies have dropped this idea, it's not reliable and doesn't have the bandwidth.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 14:57:15 ·
NormanS Premium,MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA ·Pacific Bell - SBC	reply to JoelC707 said by JoelC707 : Nobody selling 10GigE anything? Might want to look that up first. High end core routers from Cisco, Juniper and the like have had 10GigE options available for years. And there have been 10GigE cards available in PCI Express format though I don't know for how long. Nobody is going to deploy high-end routers in the home. I doubt if we will be seeing 10 Gig-E NICs in PCs in the next five years. I will concede that I failed to qualify my statement to SOHO products. -- Norman ~Oh Lord, why have you come ~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 15:27:43 ·
ArthurS Watch Those Blinking Lights Premium join:2000-10-28 Hamilton, ON	reply to sponk IMHO, it comes down to how much you want to spend to future proof your investment. For a project that might cost you $1000 in materials, a $50 upgrade may be a wise upgrade, but a $500 upgrade may be questionable. You need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages with a look at how long you plan to live in your house and what you plan to do with the technology now and 5-10 years from now. Funny that when it comes to other people's money, we spend it very easily! Yes a lot of promise has been made with wireless technology, however I have yet to see any satisfactory solutions in our increasingly crowded airwaves. Yes I love my wifi, but I don't plan to squeeze an hd channel down it's limited bandwidth! Cabled solutions are going to be around for a long time! I would venture to bet that most non-professional CAT6 installs in homes will not meet CAT6 standards in regards to termination and cable management, the requirements and methods used are very stringent, heck in a former life as a professional AV installer, I could not claim that all my initial connections were perfect (not that I would own up to this in front of a client), and I had thousands of dollars worth of tools at my disposal, but after thorough testing I was able to resolve those kinds of issues! Who has a couple grand to buy the appropriate test equipment to prove this wiring out unless they do it for a full time profession? So I guess you need to ask yourself why you should burn money on CAT6 wire unless perhaps down the road you hire a pro to terminate the connections properly and test them out? Fiber has dramatically improved in ease of installation over the past decade, and offers a lot of promise, but you still need some expensive tools to terminate it properly, something again might be left to a professional to do. That said, with wiring installs like this, the most expensive and time consuming part is always the labor to install the wiring (particularly after the fact when all the walls and access are closed off), so if it makes sense financially to buy CAT6 and/or fiber, then by all means do it. Then just terminate what you need right now (maybe two CAT5e jacks and two RG6 jacks per drop), and leave the rest unterminated inside the wallbox. Or consider some of the flexible low voltage conduit options mentioned here (more money spent). One thing to consider, if you plan to pre-terminate and test your wiring prior to the sheetrock being installed and the house interior finished, I highly recommend that all connectors be wrapped in a plastic bag with a rubber band wrapped around the wires tightly, then stuffed into the wall box. Construction dust is the absolute worst enemy for all your connectors! Once the interior of the home is completely finished, and dust has settled, then pull the bags off and pop the connectors into your keystone wallplates and finish up the install. Same goes for any patch panels--seal them up until the house is finished!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 15:43:15 ·
mrkevin Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. Premium join:2007-08-07 Aurora, ME clubs: ·US Cellular ·Dish Network ·magicjack.com ·Rivah.net 1 edit	reply to NormanS All the 10GigE interfaces I have are fiber connections. So I would push that out to more like 15-20 years before you start seeing 10GE in PCs (mainstream; not some hybrid or custom job) Oh and the SFP+ transceivers cost 15-20K -- An army of sheep led by a lion, will always defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 21:41:36 ·
Metatron2008 join:2008-09-02 Stockbridge, GA ·AT&T Wireless Broa.. ·DIRECTV ·Charter Pipeline ·America Online ·Skype ·Vonage ·AT&T Southeast 2 edits	You know, one thing none of who have thought of is beyond wireless n. If your gonna wire your house for ethernet, a protocal more advanced then wireless n would allow you to transfer data to other pcs at 10 gig. If you want to talk speeds, then okay, that could be years away, but beyond wireless n, and 10 gig network transferring, is only a few years away. And yes, I know wireless N isn't the sole user of gigabit networking. But it is mainly for home networking.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 23:16:14 ·
ArthurS Watch Those Blinking Lights Premium join:2000-10-28 Hamilton, ON	said by Metatron2008 : You know, one thing none of who have thought of is beyond wireless n. If your gonna wire your house for ethernet, a protocal more advanced then wireless n would allow you to transfer data to other pcs at 10 gig. If you want to talk speeds, then okay, that could be years away, but beyond wireless n, and 10 gig network transferring, is only a few years away. Really? With spectrum becoming increasingly crowded, where do you suppose the additional bandwidth needed to support such high data rates is going to come from? No free lunch here!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 23:19:37 ·
Metatron2008 join:2008-09-02 Stockbridge, GA ·AT&T Wireless Broa.. ·DIRECTV ·Charter Pipeline ·America Online ·Skype ·Vonage ·AT&T Southeast	said by ArthurS : said by Metatron2008 : You know, one thing none of who have thought of is beyond wireless n. If your gonna wire your house for ethernet, a protocal more advanced then wireless n would allow you to transfer data to other pcs at 10 gig. If you want to talk speeds, then okay, that could be years away, but beyond wireless n, and 10 gig network transferring, is only a few years away. Really? With spectrum becoming increasingly crowded, where do you suppose the additional bandwidth needed to support such high data rates is going to come from? No free lunch here! Yes, really. Because these are ethernet cables that connect WIRED, which means they don't have spectrums. The only things that I imagine would come automatically with gigabit 10 ethernet are beyond wireless n modems, and that's because of the way they do home entworking.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 23:23:24 ·
tschmidt Premium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH ·Hollis Hosting ·Verizon Online DSL ·Fairpoint Communic.. 1 edit	said by Metatron2008 : Because these are ethernet cables that connect WIRED, which means they don't have spectrums. Actually all signals have a spectrum. Engineers work hard to develop modulation techniques that move the maximum number of bits in the least amount of spectrum. That is why cable requirement get tighter as data rate increases. said by Metatron2008 : If you want to talk speeds, then okay, that could be years away, but beyond wireless n, and 10 gig network transferring, is only a few years away. The only things that I imagine would come automatically with gigabit 10 ethernet are beyond wireless n modems, and that's because of the way they do home entworking. Sorry you lost me on this one. IEEE is working on 40 and 100 Gig wired Ethernet. The point ArthurS made is valid. Unless government allocate bigger chunks of bandwidth to unlicensed radio use it is not going to be possible to endlessly increase data rate. I assume you are familiar with Shannon limit. Modern coding schemes come very close to theoretical limits. The low hanging fruit has been plucked. This is one of the reasons for intense interest in using unused TV channels for data communication, so called White space. /tom
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 23:40:51 ·
Metatron2008 join:2008-09-02 Stockbridge, GA ·AT&T Wireless Broa.. ·DIRECTV ·Charter Pipeline ·America Online ·Skype ·Vonage ·AT&T Southeast 1 edit	Huh? Explain how wired signals carry a SPECTRUM. I also did some investigating on your idea that we are close to running out of wireless bandwidth. These guys may need a word with you: »www.technologyreview.com/communi···s/21464/ Also, I do know about how wireless works. It isn't just the spectrum, it's the power you send. 'White space' use 700 mhz power and isn't all that usefull.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-12 23:54:19 ·
ArthurS Watch Those Blinking Lights Premium join:2000-10-28 Hamilton, ON 3 edits	said by Metatron2008 : Huh? Explain how wired signals carry a SPECTRUM. Take a look at the definition, note that the medium used (whether a cable or ether) does not make Spectrum. said by Metatron2008 : I also did some investigating on your idea that we are close to running out of wireless bandwidth. These guys may need a word with you: »www.technologyreview.com/communi···s/21464/ Also, I do know about how wireless works. It isn't just the spectrum, it's the power you send. 'White space' use 700 mhz power and isn't all that usefull. Doesn't seem like you understand how wireless works. The link you posted are some lab demonstrations of wireless technology in the 60-100 GHz frequencies. Unfortunately, the higher up you go in frequency, the less penetration through walls and ceilings you get with the signal. Laws of physics at play here. While it may prove to be a useful technology in an open space (ie open office), it's usefulness in homes is dubious at best with all the walls/floors/ceilings dividing the space inside--you'll still need a wiring infrastructure to support multiple wireless points! You're also confusing power with frequency in the above incoherent statements. While power is one important factor in wireless transmission, white spaces is all about penetration through barriers and transmitting over long distances because of the lower frequencies used, hence why they are being sold to the highest bidder for millions and billions of dollars to expand cell phone capabilities. Whether we see anything that improves our situation at home is questionable unless someone finds a way to make a lot of money doing so.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 00:14:22 ·
jeffmoss26 join:2002-07-22 Beachwood, OH	reply to sponk If I read correct you plan on having your electrician run this wire. Beware because many electricians have no idea how to properly run and install voice/data cabling. I've had to clean up many a mess when someone hired their electricians. I would let them home run all the cables and then have someone else come do all the terminations, but that is just me. I do a lot of cabling and I get most everything from Graybar. I do not trust places like Monoprice, Deep Surplus, etc. I use General Cable and Leviton jacks/plates/patch panels.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 00:21:43 ·
ex bell @cgocable.net	said by jeffmoss26 : If I read correct you plan on having your electrician run this wire. Beware because many electricians have no idea how to properly run and install voice/data cabling. I've had to clean up many a mess when someone hired their electricians. I would let them home run all the cables and then have someone else come do all the terminations, but that is just me. I do a lot of cabling and I get most everything from Graybar. I do not trust places like Monoprice, Deep Surplus, etc. I use General Cable and Leviton jacks/plates/patch panels. I could have wrote that. I tell homeowners the same. How many times do you have to see electricians split pairs with the orange and green from twisted pair to replicate red green. I prefer the Leviton products as well. Never get a call back and terminate every time.
	to forum · permalink · 2009-07-13 00:43:12 ·
nunya SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES Premium,MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO clubs: ·AT&T CallVantage	reply to sponk Never hire a low voltage or telephone guy to do this type of work. They have no idea what they are doing and do not know how to follow electrical code. Always use an electrician. I can't tell you how many "professional" low voltage installers I've have to clean up after just to pass a rough inspection. Just my $.02 boys - it can go either way. Don't be too quick to jump on sparky. 10-15 years ago, most electricians had NO CLUE as to what they were doing with phone / data / video (I know, I used to work for Ma Bell and Charter). Now, it's more common for us to be cross trained on all aspects of wiring. Myself, I'm a renaissance man of cabling. I can be pulling romex one day, and cleating ST's the next. -- Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 01:26:57 ·
Splitpair Premium join:2000-07-29 Cow Towne ·T-Mobile US	said by nunya : I can't tell you how many "professional" low voltage installers I've have to clean up after just to pass a rough inspection. That sword cuts both ways, as a Florida state licensed electrical contractor I can tell you for a fact there are a number of electricians who are totally clueless when it comes to running and terminating low voltage. Yea sparky can bend conduit till the cows home but when it comes to low voltage he treats it as if it was all for thermostats, in fact I have seen 7 wire thermostat cabling installed by professional electricians in lieu of CAT 5. Then there where the bundles of CAT 5 I found nailed tightly to 2X4 studs with romex staples not to mention the blue orange pairing etc etc... Yea there are some low voltage duffers out there but they equal to or are exceeded by the number of electrical contractors who are just as incompetent with low voltage cabling. Wayne -- If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 07:26:11 ·
fireflier Coffee. . .Need Coffee Premium join:2001-05-25 Limbo ·Skype	reply to sponk I see at Monoprice, CAT5e 1000' bulk is about $53. CAT6 is $77. Over the cost of a home, that difference is miniscule. You may never use 10Gig ethernet but for $24 you'll have that option. Save $24 now and you may lose that option as gear gets cheaper. I built in 1999 and put in CAT-5 (home networking wasn't nearly as popular then and the local home centers didn't carry CAT-5e at that time). After building, I installed some 10 Mbit ethernet gear because it was low cost and the 100 Mbit gear was at a higher price point. I was also not moving a lot of data between machines. Within about 5 years, I replaced the gear with 100 Mbit because the Gig-e stuff was out (still beyond my price point) and 100 Mbit was getting very cheap while I was also starting to move more data across the network. About 3 years ago, I swapped it out with Gig-e gear (yes, I know CAT-5 isn't rated Gig-E but it's working fine) because the price point dropped again. I've also moved to 802.11n wireless. I doubt I'll be able to take the next step to 10 gig with my existing cabling and I fully expect that gear will reach residential price points eventually even if it seems astronomically high right now. To assume 10 Gig gear won't be useful or affordable over the next 10 years is a mistake especially to save a mere $24. In less than 10 years, I've stepped up twice because prices and availability improved. As others have said, I wouldn't even consider installing CAT-3. I'm running POTS over separate drops of CAT-5 and it works fine. KISS (keep it simple stupid). You can run voice over CAT-5e, you can't run Gig-e over CAT-3. There's no point in having two types of cabling when one type can do 2 jobs. Running CAT-5e is no more difficult than CAT-3 so labor shouldn't even be an issue. Also, while some may say it's overkill, I ran RG-6 QS (quad shield). The only requirement over regular RG-6 is you need QS F-connectors but most DIY stores carry them, you just have to look. -- Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 08:49:58 ·
sponk join:2005-01-03 Mississauga ·Future Nine Corpor.. ·Rogers Hi-Speed	reply to sponk I have decided to go with Cat6 UTP solid (CMR). I will instruct the electrician to just pull the cables and I will terminate them myself. Since the RG6 and Phone wire will be pulled to each room, is it safe to just have the Cat6 pulled with it? (No/minimal interference since I see composite cable available which includes all the aforementioned cables tangled together). I reckon the RG6 is quite stiff so there shouldn't be any acute bends involved! Thanks everyone for the extremely invaluable input so far; greatly appreciate it!!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 09:37:05 ·
Harddrive Premium join:2000-09-20 Norwich, CT	yeah, just pull the coax and ethernet/phone cable together. no harm in it.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 10:22:54 ·
jig join:2001-01-05 Hacienda Heights, CA	reply to sponk just be sure that the electrician doesn't wrap it around nails and such periodically. regardless of the stiffness, i've seen that done a few times to "make sure it stays in place". hell, i've seen it done with RG-6. -- Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 10:31:53 ·
ropeguru Premium join:2001-01-25 Bridgeport, WV clubs: ·VOIPo	reply to Splitpair said by Splitpair : Yea there are some low voltage duffers out there but they equal to or are exceeded by the number of electrical contractors who are just as incompetent with low voltage cabling. Wayne Reminds me of my mom's house when she first moved in. Complained that the phones were acting weird. I crawled up into the attic and found wher ethe electrician had spliced all the wires for the phone jacks. How do I know it was an electrician?? All the splices were being held together with wire nuts. I was lucky that the day I was poking around a Verizon tech was there for the same issue. He was nice enough to give me a tube of Scotchlok connectors to fix everything with. If he had done it he would have charged her for the service call.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 10:46:02 ·
Rombus Premium join:2007-04-11 Columbus, OH	reply to sponk What about running this instead? »cableorganizer.com/kwikpath/resi···ways.htm I always thought it would be cool to run that instead of normal Low V so you could replace and update as needed easily.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-13 10:53:36 ·


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