| And the issue here is . . . ? So VZ Wireless won't allow apps that could bring the network to it's knees? Sounds like prudent network management to me. |
|
| said by myokitis:So VZ Wireless won't allow apps that could bring the network to it's knees? Sounds like prudent network management to me. I agree, everyone complains how bad AT&T's data network is, but when Verizon does something to prevent the overcrowding that plagues AT&T, everyone complains again. |
|
 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to myokitis
said by myokitis:So VZ Wireless won't allow apps that could bring the network to it's knees? Sounds like prudent network management to me. If that was the thinking in 1992, then the World-Wide-Web would have never developed. We've collectively brought the net to its knees several times, and what's made the network great is that we've traditionally responded to usage peaks by adding more bandwidth to meet the demand -- not by restricting how consumers use it.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 |
|
funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to CurGeorge8
said by CurGeorge8:I agree, everyone complains how bad AT&T's data network is, but when Verizon does something to prevent the overcrowding that plagues AT&T, everyone complains again. Nobody is complaining that AT&T's network is overcrowded or that AT&T is too liberal with the apps that they allow.
Look, this is the cellular concept. AT&T has an infinite number of options to fix their broken network and expand its capacity anywhere it is suffering! However, these options cost more money than issuing press releases and limiting user choices.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 |
|
| reply to myokitis
How do you know it would be brought to its knees? How do you know 5 GB caps are the "sweet spot" for limiting network congestion? Do you have access to the raw network data? |
|
| reply to funchords
said by funchords:said by CurGeorge8:Look, this is the cellular concept. AT&T has an infinite number of options to fix their broken network and expand its capacity anywhere it is suffering! However, these options cost more money than issuing press releases and limiting user choices. Dude you have no clue whatsoever.
AT&T's problem is mainly the Internet backhauls from its cell sites. Do you know how long it takes to get a data circuit ordered, installed, tested, and operational? Hint: Lots of time, even if you are the telco.
And then there's cell sites. Cost a couple hundred grand a pop and that's if you can put them where they will work best. You've got lots of NIMBY types that don't want them. And then there's working with landowners, getting it constructed, tuned, etc. Takes time and lots of $$.
It is getting better, it will take time.
Put down the Verizon Crack Pipe. Their network is not all that. Their advertising is top notch. Repeat anything long enough and people will believe it. |
|
funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | said by itguy05:Put down the Verizon Crack Pipe. Their network is not all that. Their advertising is top notch. Repeat anything long enough and people will believe it. I've been using Verizon's DSL and wireless networks for years. I am quite familiar with them, directly.
There are also a pair of consumer surveys out there that rated VZW tops in most of its markets. Consumer Reports (12/2007) was one of these. »Verizon Wireless Again Tops In Customer Satisfaction (JD Power) was another. Neither of these outfits are known for getting it wrong.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 |
|
funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to itguy05
said by itguy05:said by funchords:Look, this is the cellular concept. AT&T has an infinite number of options to fix their broken network and expand its capacity anywhere it is suffering! However, these options cost more money than issuing press releases and limiting user choices. AT&T's problem is mainly the Internet backhauls from its cell sites. Do you know how long it takes to get a data circuit ordered, installed, tested, and operational? Hint: Lots of time, even if you are the telco. Let me rephrase that, "However, these options cost more money than issuing press releases and limiting user choices and making lame excuses."
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 |
|
| Paying websites for sponsored softball Q&A sessions is also apparently cost effective.  |
|
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to itguy05
said by itguy05:Dude you have no clue whatsoever. AT&T's problem is mainly the Internet backhauls from its cell sites. Do you know how long it takes to get a data circuit ordered, installed, tested, and operational? Hint: Lots of time, even if you are the telco. Its called microwave relay. Landline circuits are only a last resort nowadays. |
|
|
|
 kyler13Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD | reply to itguy05
said by itguy05:Dude you have no clue whatsoever. AT&T's problem is mainly the Internet backhauls from its cell sites. Do you know how long it takes to get a data circuit ordered, installed, tested, and operational? Hint: Lots of time, even if you are the telco. And then there's cell sites. Cost a couple hundred grand a pop and that's if you can put them where they will work best. You've got lots of NIMBY types that don't want them. And then there's working with landowners, getting it constructed, tuned, etc. Takes time and lots of $$. It is getting better, it will take time. Put down the Verizon Crack Pipe. Their network is not all that. Their advertising is top notch. Repeat anything long enough and people will believe it. AT&T doesn't have time. LTE is right around the corner and Verizon is pushing it. AT&T won't get real 3G up and running widespread before they need to abandon it and go all out on LTE. AT&T's real problem here is GSM. They're plagued just as much by dropped connections as slow speed. Verizon's network is all that, thanks to CDMA technology which is better suited for a country this expansive. You get the worldwide support of GSM, implementing it in the US, but few other carriers abroad need to shoehorn it into a widespread market place like AT&T does here. |
|
| reply to CurGeorge8
said by CurGeorge8:said by myokitis:So VZ Wireless won't allow apps that could bring the network to it's knees? Sounds like prudent network management to me. I agree, everyone complains how bad AT&T's data network is, but when Verizon does something to prevent the overcrowding that plagues AT&T, everyone complains again. These companies are lying to us. They want to give us the "next generation" service. People want to use applications that use lots of data. So why market something you can not deliver. Don't blame the customer, we just fell for your marketing crap. |
|
| reply to funchords
said by funchords:I've been using Verizon's DSL and wireless networks for years. I am quite familiar with them, directly. There are also a pair of consumer surveys out there that rated VZW tops in most of its markets. Consumer Reports (12/2007) was one of these. » Verizon Wireless Again Tops In Customer Satisfaction (JD Power) was another. Neither of these outfits are known for getting it wrong. You mean Consumer Reports who, last year had to stop giving Toyota an automatic Reccomend rating because of issues that had been mounting for years (sludging engines, broken engines, and a general lack of quality in their new cars). The same CR that waited almost a year to de-rate Toyota?
Or JD Power who, some claim is bought by the manufacturers for their ratings.
I have no issues with my FIOS service.
I have 2 phones, Verizon for work and AT&T for my personal iPhone. Guess which one sounds better, is more reliable, and drops less calls? The AT&T one.
Again, if you keep saying something all the time, people will believe it. And they will dismiss little issues. Why? If it's the best and it drops calls how much worse would the others be?
I've been there, used Verizon Wireless - The are not the best. Good, yes, best no way. |
|
| reply to patcat88
said by patcat88:Its called microwave relay. Landline circuits are only a last resort nowadays. Still has to terminate into copper or fiber somewhere. And there's a finite bandwidth for those microwave relays as well. Fact is these networks were not ready for the data. Verizon's saving grace is that they don't have these huge data plan users like the iPhone. I'd also bet if Verizon had the iPhone we would see the same things. |
|
| reply to kyler13
said by kyler13:AT&T doesn't have time. LTE is right around the corner and Verizon is pushing it. AT&T won't get real 3G up and running widespread before they need to abandon it and go all out on LTE. AT&T's real problem here is GSM. They're plagued just as much by dropped connections as slow speed. Verizon's network is all that, thanks to CDMA technology which is better suited for a country this expansive. You get the worldwide support of GSM, implementing it in the US, but few other carriers abroad need to shoehorn it into a widespread market place like AT&T does here. You really need to buy a clue.
AT&T's 3G is UMTS/HSDPA, which is a form of CDMA. The only GSM/TDMA left in AT&T is the legacy stuff and I think they are upgrading ASAP. That's the hard part for them - going from GSM (TDMA) to CDMA.
LTE is the natural progression from UMTS:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_···volution
"LTE is a set of enhancements to the Universal Mobile Telecommunications System (UMTS) which will be introduced in 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP) "
So AT&T can go to LTE and does have plans to move there in 2011.
If you bother to read the article, UMTS, GSM, IS-95 (CDMA) and LTE are compatible.
I've used them both and Verizon's network is not all that. CDMA can and does suck in many circumstances (high usage when voice quality goes in the crapper).
I think you need to stop puckering up to the big red V. |
|
 EdG
@eastlink.ca | reply to CurGeorge8
said by CurGeorge8:said by myokitis:So VZ Wireless won't allow apps that could bring the network to it's knees? Sounds like prudent network management to me. I agree, everyone complains how bad AT&T's data network is, but when Verizon does something to prevent the overcrowding that plagues AT&T, everyone complains again. Yours is the 2nd comment in the thread. Given that the poster above you is an astroturfer as well, where are these 'everyone' of whom you speak?
I fucking despise corporate shills, selling their civilization down the river.... |
|
| reply to funchords
said by funchords:said by CurGeorge8:I agree, everyone complains how bad AT&T's data network is, but when Verizon does something to prevent the overcrowding that plagues AT&T, everyone complains again. Nobody is complaining that AT&T's network is overcrowded or that AT&T is too liberal with the apps that they allow. Look, this is the cellular concept. AT&T has an infinite number of options to fix their broken network and expand its capacity anywhere it is suffering! However, these options cost more money than issuing press releases and limiting user choices. Apple controls a lot of the apps. Funny how Apple refused GV. |
|
kyler13Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD | reply to itguy05
No, you need to learn more about what you're talking about. Just because you see the string of characters "CDMA" doesn't mean A=B. UMTS's use of W-CDMA is not compatible with the CDMA2000 family of standards we refer to when we talk about Verizon's network being CDMA (1xRTT, EVDO). Don't get caught up in the terminology. UMTS, like GSM/EDGE, doesn't have nearly the coverage area per cell site that the CDMA2000 standards have. Yes, you stand corrected.
I don't care where LTE comes from. Verizon is rushing it to market at the end of this year. Of course AT&T can upgrade to it, but they're either gonna sit on their hands, wait until 2011 as planned, and fall further behind, or they're gonna be pushed to keep pace with Verizon and scrap their continuing 3G upgrades. They can barely afford to update their current network so what makes you think they can do this and upgrade to LTE at the same time? And BTW, the standards aren't compatible. I think you're again getting confused by simple terminology. LTE supports seamless passing with all the other standards. That's wholly different than compatibility.
Forget about buying clues. I think you need to re-educate yourself. Good luck with that. |
|
| They are all based off of CDMA which has a whole different network tuning, cell spacing and placement, and other requirements than GSM.
Verizon has the advantage in that they have already built and tuned their system for a CDMA based technology. They have lots of experience with it.
I'd love to see how you think AT&T can "barely afford to upgrade their network". If you look at the stats, AT&T spends just as much as Verizon in network upgrades per year. They do have the disadvantage in that they have to support GSM, UMTS, and LTE but if they are smart, they will do what they did to the TDMA/Analog customers a few years ago.
I think you really need to stop thinking that VZW is the best and that everyone else will stand still. I'd love a pair of those red V tinted glasses.
Also, if you think LTE will be smooth and everywhere on VZW, I've got a bridge to sell you. I saw their rollout of 1X and it was slow, probably as slow as AT&T's 3G rollout.
I use them both and find Verizon's call quality to be subpar and their performance to be as good as AT&T. Not better, not worse but nowhere near the "God Carrier" that people think. |
|
funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to itguy05
said by itguy05:I've used them both and Verizon's network is not all that. CDMA can and does suck in many circumstances (high usage when voice quality goes in the crapper). Maybe that's why VZW's voice quality is so poor. I've often wondered if that was a VZW thing or just the state of wireless in the USA (or world).
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 |
|
