 ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | reply to sonicmerlin
Re: caps? Faster. You said it right there. I get faster speeds so I can get things done in less time. That doesn't mean I am always going to search out more and more. |
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| You seem to be intent on ignoring the crux of what I'm pointing out. People who consume very little are focused on paying as little as possible, and therefore access the minimum tier of broadband available. Why do you think cable operators like Time Warner never, *ever* advertise their super lowest tier at $20/month? Getting them to admit they even have that tier requires that you request to speak to a manager at customer service.
When someone willingly and knowingly purchases a higher-priced tier for higher speeds, they are almost exclusively doing so for the sake of consuming more data. Thus in Sweden, when someone pays $50/month for their 100/100mbit line, instead of $10/month for their much slower line, they're doing so with the intent of using that connection frequently and consuming a huge quantity of bandwidth. |
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ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 Reviews:
 ·VOIPo
| said by sonicmerlin:You seem to be intent on ignoring the crux of what I'm pointing out. People who consume very little are focused on paying as little as possible, and therefore access the minimum tier of broadband available. Why do you think cable operators like Time Warner never, *ever* advertise their super lowest tier at $20/month? Getting them to admit they even have that tier requires that you request to speak to a manager at customer service. When someone willingly and knowingly purchases a higher-priced tier for higher speeds, they are almost exclusively doing so for the sake of consuming more data. Thus in Sweden, when someone pays $50/month for their 100/100mbit line, instead of $10/month for their much slower line, they're doing so with the intent of using that connection frequently and consuming a huge quantity of bandwidth. As do you. Alot of people also purchase faster speeds simply for the fact that it won't take as long to get things done. I had AT&T DSL at 5 mbps. I ordered the 10 mbps line from my cable provider so it doesn't take a painfully long time to download a demo on Xbox Live, etc. I cut the time to do things in half. That doesn't mean I automatically go out in search of more things and my consumptions goes through the roof.
People want to do things faster, but that doesn't always means they want to do more of it.
We can agree to disagree.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org |
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 mlernerPremium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
1 edit | At some point the faster speed for less becomes irrelevant. If you want speed 10-15 mbps is enough, anything above is a waste because you're typically not going to get any higher for surfing or email use. You can't justify low caps on a 50 mbps service otherwise what's the point. |
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| reply to ptrowski
you mean faster so you can hit them low caps faster LOL |
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 NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | reply to mlerner
said by mlerner:At some point the faster speed for less becomes irrelevant. If you want speed 10-15 mbps is enough, anything above is a waste because you're typically not going to get any higher for surfing or email use. You can't justify low caps on a 50 mbps service otherwise what's the point. That's not necessiarily true..
I have game updaters that user torrent technology and it routinely saturates my 20Mbit/20Mbit service while it's running.
iTunes/Amazon/Netflix also get upwards of 10mbit when downloading movies etc.
Webservers can also get up there. Anything less than 5mbit can slow down page loads for content rich pages since most large companies can burst up to 5-10mbit for small files. Though Youtube seems to be having some major issues.
I would argue that 50mbit is overkill for anyone.. Right now 20mbit to me is a sweet spot for price/vs performance.
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Play a Death Knight?
www.theebonhold.com |
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mlernerPremium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5 | said by NOCMan:said by mlerner:At some point the faster speed for less becomes irrelevant. If you want speed 10-15 mbps is enough, anything above is a waste because you're typically not going to get any higher for surfing or email use. You can't justify low caps on a 50 mbps service otherwise what's the point. That's not necessiarily true.. I have game updaters that user torrent technology and it routinely saturates my 20Mbit/20Mbit service while it's running. iTunes/Amazon/Netflix also get upwards of 10mbit when downloading movies etc. Webservers can also get up there. Anything less than 5mbit can slow down page loads for content rich pages since most large companies can burst up to 5-10mbit for small files. Though Youtube seems to be having some major issues. I would argue that 50mbit is overkill for anyone.. Right now 20mbit to me is a sweet spot for price/vs performance. Right you may get more or less but 15 is all you're gonna need realistically for low usage and if you're that low usage chances are you're NOT using torrents. |
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| said by mlerner:said by NOCMan:said by mlerner:At some point the faster speed for less becomes irrelevant. If you want speed 10-15 mbps is enough, anything above is a waste because you're typically not going to get any higher for surfing or email use. You can't justify low caps on a 50 mbps service otherwise what's the point. That's not necessiarily true.. I have game updaters that user torrent technology and it routinely saturates my 20Mbit/20Mbit service while it's running. iTunes/Amazon/Netflix also get upwards of 10mbit when downloading movies etc. Webservers can also get up there. Anything less than 5mbit can slow down page loads for content rich pages since most large companies can burst up to 5-10mbit for small files. Though Youtube seems to be having some major issues. I would argue that 50mbit is overkill for anyone.. Right now 20mbit to me is a sweet spot for price/vs performance. Right you may get more or less but 15 is all you're gonna need realistically for low usage and if you're that low usage chances are you're NOT using torrents. And that is still not true.
Sure, 15MBPS may have been all someone needed... if this was 2003. Try 150MBPS for today's applications. Video streaming, teleconferencing, VPN, digital distribution, porn (caught that didn't you? :P), heavy gaming; and I don't mean joke marathon sessions, I mean TRUE heavy gaming. Remind me to map my network for you to give you an idea of what I mean.
Then come little stuff like torrents. Though that's a matter of opinion depending on if you play games like World of Warcraft, or used things like Joost before it changed its application model. Such things are likely to burn GB at a time.
50MBIT is not overkill.
1GB is not overkill. It all depends on your application level and your needs. Frankly, my needs are more than most other persons.
I apologize. Sorry that I actually take advantage of the markets and mediums available to me. Ask around what I do with access to 100mbits. I've been known to do, at minimal, 300GB per day, and that's before accounting for torrent traffic (which doesn't raise the numbers by much).
Perhaps I should curtail my usage? (Ha ha, no). |
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 DaneJasperSonic.NetPremium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:7 | reply to ptrowski
I'll toss my 2c in the ring and tell you that based upon real statistics in our real network, customers who buy higher speeds also use more bandwidth.
ALL other things being equal, a person given two different speed connections might consume the same amount of actual data, but all things are not equal. The consumer who pays a higher price for a higher speed is also the same consumer who makes more use of that connection.
-Dane |
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ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | Right, there would be some as I have myself. But the typical arguement is wow, now we can hit our caps in 3 days so to speak. |
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NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to PapaMidnight
said by PapaMidnight:I've been known to do, at minimal, 300GB per day, and that's before accounting for torrent traffic (which doesn't raise the numbers by much). What are you doing on a residential line? Get yourself an OC-48, or more!
It took me 2-3 years just to download 1 TB (that's 333 GB per year, not per month; and your doing that on a daily basis?) And being on a slow DSL connection had little to do with it. I torrent fansubbed anime, mostly. And that is all the shows that ever garnered my interest. If I had 30 Mb/s instead of 3 Mb/s, I would have downloaded that TB ten time faster. I would not have downloaded ten times more. I hit periods, now, where I will go for weeks without a torrent underway; just because not all anime grabs my interest.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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jp10558Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY | reply to ptrowski
Well, I don't know about typical use, but I have to figure:
Dial-up - you're loading web pages and occasional pictures
1 Mbps - you're posting a lot more pics to facebook/flicker, you're watching low def youtube etc
3Mbps - you're likely to use youtube all the time, grab streaming video from comedy central etc...
10Mbps - now you might be enjoying high def youtube (which has to eat more bandwidth, but to the end user, they're not "doing more"...), you're probably interested in netflix streaming. I can imagine passing your own videos around...
Also, what about various new services taking off like Orb or Opera Unite or yes all the P2P.
But I just figure that as it becomes possible to do video, lots of normal users like to do so. As it becomes possible for them to use higher def video, they do so because it looks better. But this isn't doing more from a user perspective.
Also, with broadband, more and more ISPs are providing 4 port routers + wi-fi. How many people by now, who aren't techies, are getting more than one PC online and now potentially increasing use if just by updates and simultaneous use? Probably just through not ditching the old PC when they get a new one, or getting a laptop, iPhone, xBox etc... I just can't see how you would deny a continued growth of use by all segments of society in actual transfer.
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Opera 9.62(Build 10467); Windows XP Pro SP3;Intel C2Q6600; 3GB DDR2 1066; 1M/128k DSL; Antivir Personal; Comodo Firewall Pro 3;Proxomitron 4.5j Sidki 2008beta,GPG ID:0x0A1C6EE3 |
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jat
join:2008-04-28
Burlington, ON | said by jp10558:Dial-up - you're loading web pages and occasional pictures 1 Mbps - you're posting a lot more pics to facebook/flicker, you're watching low def youtube etc 3Mbps - you're likely to use youtube all the time, grab streaming video from comedy central etc... 10Mbps - now you might be enjoying high def youtube (which has to eat more bandwidth, but to the end user, they're not "doing more"...), you're probably interested in netflix streaming. I can imagine passing your own videos around... This tiered view of internet usage is exactly what the ISPs are counting on. As faster speeds become available, people find more services they can use, and their consumption goes up. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a linear correlation. Someone switching from 10mbit to 30mbit may use more bandwidth, but probably not three times as much. That's the concept that most ISPs (including Novus) base their scaling on.
Also, while it's probably true that users paying the premium for the highest tier are the ones with the most extreme bandwidth usage, that doesn't mean they're going to be given caps that break the scale used for lower tiers. As someone recently said in the TekSavvy forum: fast, cheap, unlimited; pick two. Unsurprisingly, Novus went with fast and cheap. Even with a 360GB cap, $179.95 for 50/10 is a steal. A truly unlimited (i.e. dedicated) line at that speed would easily cost 10 times as much in this market.
Personally, I think most ISPs have got the scaling of their caps right. What they've got wrong is the base cap, package pricing, and overage fees. Novus could do better in those regards too, but why would they when their current offerings already kick the pants off the competition? |
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mlernerPremium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5 | In this case it's ultimately about the market but that doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. Telus' Fiber condo project actually provides enough bandwidth to each resident with no bandwidth caps. That isn't a offering that matches the market so it can be done but most residential ISPs would rather sell a shared service. |
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