jofos
join:2008-02-14
Irvington, AL
| druid tank and 3.2
I haven't tanked since BC. I was asked to tank H DTK a while back and my druid was no where close to being tanking ready and the group I was with was in all naxx gear (some 10 man some 25). Needless to say holding agro was a problem. I made it to the first boss and told them I had to go and haven't tanked since.
In 3.2 there will be damage reduction on some feral spells as well as dodge changes. How will this affect dtuids trying to get into tanking. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
 ·RCN CABLE
4 edits | The overall change to a bear is about -4% dodge in 3.2 so it's a very minor hit.
As far as damage reductions those won't do jack to a bear. Our dps has been laughable forever. Everything will still generate the same threat for the most part. If your having threat issues it has to be your rotation or some kind of slowdown be it video, internet, or you.
Remember open with Growl then FFF. Next Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate. Now that you have your 5 Lacerate's up you just need to maintain them. Your maintenance rotation is: FFF, Mangle, Lacerate, Swipe. You can add a 2nd Swipe in if Mangle isn't up yet. You want to use Mangle everytime it's up without exception. Rage permitting you'll want to have Maul get queued when you hit one or more of your abilities. I personally have macro's for everything so Maul gets queued when I hit Mangle, Lacernate, or Swipe. I've also put those abilities on my bar un-macro'ed so I can use them without breaking CC as need as I use the Glyph of Maul.
See the existing Druid Tanking guide or other resources for more help:
»[ PvE] Druid Tanking
»wowthinktank.blogspot.com/ |
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Sprakk
@eds.net
| I haven't tanked since TBC.
But opening as growl, that's a first for me. Never heard of that one. Why would you open with growl?
I would've thought growl would be good to have off cooldown, it used to be that growl didn't generate any threat, it would only taunt the enemy. Is this still the case, or has something changed about it?
My rotation would be, FFF -> lacerate -> mangle -> lacerate until x5 with maul in between when rage permits -> mangle when off cooldown. And only growl when you need to taunt off someone else. |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
4 edits | said by Sprakk :
I haven't tanked since TBC.
But opening as growl, that's a first for me. Never heard of that one. Why would you open with growl?
I would've thought growl would be good to have off cooldown, it used to be that growl didn't generate any threat, it would only taunt the enemy. Is this still the case, or has something changed about it?
My rotation would be, FFF -> lacerate -> mangle -> lacerate until x5 with maul in between when rage permits -> mangle when off cooldown. And only growl when you need to taunt off someone else.
The real question is: Why wouldn't you open with an ability that pulls the mob to you for 3 seconds when you clearly have no threat/aggro when the fight starts? Do you want your DPS to pull it off you at the start or are you assuming they will wait a few seconds before they DPS? Why ask them to wait on DPS when you have the tools to eliminate that? I personally cannot afford to leave my threat/aggro up to chance as 1 hit on a DPS can kill them in Ulduar. What else are you going to do before it gets to you if you only FFF? Care Bear stare!
FYI: With an 8 second cooldown who worries about the cooldown anyways?
**The only exception to the rule is when the mob your about to pull is immune to a Growl.**
The threat ranking on abilities is:
Mangle
Lacerate - 5 stacks
FFF
Swipe
Lacerate - Under 5 stacks
You NEVER I mean NEVER want to spam Lacerate more then 2-3 times in a row to get the stacks up. The threat loss is HUGE if you skip a Mangle when it's up.
-----------------------------------
Another valid opening would be Feral Charge, FFF, Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle, FFF, Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate. If you need to pull threat super fast and pull a lot for say a speed boss kill achivement then skip Lacerate all together for the opening. Try Feral Charge or Growl, FFF, Mangle, Berserk, Mangle (Spam). Then revert to the original opening and rotation after that.
A multi-target opening is going to be Growl 1 target, FFF another if possible, then spam Swipe a few times. Try to keep spreading around your FFF's and Mangle's while spamming Swipe non-stop.
Another option for a multi-target opening would be Feral Charge, Swipe, then Challenging Roar. Then you'd spread around FFF and Mangle while spamming Swipe. |
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uvray
join:2008-08-15
Fredericton, NB | Does anyone use spellcasting pulls anymore? I still like to bust out a starfire-moonfire on 1-2 mob pulls or hurricane on 3+ and then switch form to do the bear rotation. Is this completely outdated now? |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
| said by uvray  :Does anyone use spellcasting pulls anymore? I still like to bust out a starfire-moonfire on 1-2 mob pulls or hurricane on 3+ and then switch form to do the bear rotation. Is this completely outdated now? With Swipe hitting infinite targets I personally don't see any need to use hurricane anymore. I'd rather shift into bear to get rage then enrage for more rage. Then I use the rage for a few swipes to handle as many adds are you want. It's pretty easy to tank the floor in Thorim for instance as a feral bear with Swipe. The threat generation on Swipe is pretty high. |
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stvnbrs
join:2009-03-17
| reply to jofos
For pulls where I don't have any rage left from a previous fight I will normally drop a hot on myself, enrage>charge>dr>swipe, then start my mangle>lacerate (switch target) swipe>lacerate (switch target) and start over with mangle. I can keep this up with about 4 mobs without loosing any lacerates and I throw in a maul when I get plenty of rage.
For low rage, try to use fff some. |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
| said by stvnbrs :For pulls where I don't have any rage left from a previous fight I will normally drop a hot on myself, enrage>charge>dr>swipe, then start my mangle>lacerate (switch target) swipe>lacerate (switch target) and start over with mangle. I can keep this up with about 4 mobs without loosing any lacerates and I throw in a maul when I get plenty of rage. For low rage, try to use fff some. You know Swipe generates a TON more threat then Lacerate right? If your doing any kind of multi-mob tanking Swipe is your best friend. The only time a Lacerate's threat is better then Swipe's threat is with 5 stacks which will just about never happen with multi-mob tanking.
If your out of rage then shift out of bear and back into bear for rage then use Enrage. You should always have 25-30 rage to start a fight minimum. Now that 3.2 is out you'll be able to get 40 rage max instead of 30 rage to start fights.
**Absolutely no excuse for a bear to not have 30-40 rage at the start of a fight.** |
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stvnbrs
join:2009-03-17
| reply to jofos
Depending on the fight and the dps, I can get 5 stacks of lacerate on up to 4 mobs with that rotation right now. I am sure that swipe generates more threat, but I really don't like the spamming one button tanking. Like I said, it depends on the dps. If I can get the rotation down quickly, I don't have any problems with threat.
I will probably have to move up to the swipe spam soon, but I do like the more complicated rotation, and when done right works out well  |
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Sprakk
@eds.net
| reply to jofos
Okay, so lets role play here.
You pull with growl, by the time the mob gets to you, 3 seconds is up, just as the mob gets to you, a dps hits a spell/a healer stacks a heal and the mob runs towards them. Your challenging roar is on CD from last pull....
...what do you do?
The way I see it, opening with FFF is the best way to open up, it provides you with a sufficent amount of threat to out-threat stray heals and it also leaves you with growl off cooldown. ALSO, your faerie fire debuff is now on the target, so instead of having to apply it, using a GCD, you can stack another lacerate/mangle.
Having to wait 5 seconds before you can regain aggro on a mob, could be tragic. Especially if your DPS can be 1 hit in Ulduar. That's 4-5 DPS/healers dead before you can re-taunt. So I would probably worry a little bit about the cooldown.
And also, I never said to stack lacerate excessively, if you take note of the rotation, I mentioned to use mangle whenever it's off cooldown.
And in no situation would I ever use challenging roar to start up your cycle. Challenging roar should ALWAYS be used as an OS button, when you see a few mobs heading towards your other party members. |
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saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dubai
| reply to jofos
Doesnt Growl have diminishing returns too? I cant research from work, but I remember it having diminishing returns. So if you use it to pull you may be risking getting to the immune stage sooner?
However, I really dont have aggro issues as a bear. The only time I do is early on in the fight if some DPS goes crazy before I've had a second or two to get some hits in. On a single target mob, if I've had a few seconds to get a hit in, I almost never loose aggro to a dps. Even on multi targets I rarely loose aggro if i get the first few seconds in.
--
Hanging with my Gnomies |
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jofos
join:2008-02-14
Irvington, AL | reply to jofos
lol my dodge dropped from 40.18 % to 38.23 % no that bad I suppose. Damage in cat form is down some on target dummies but not that much. Gonna let them fix the things they broke and try running a few heroics tonight see the real differences then. |
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Reanimator
join:2008-11-22
Matthews, NC
| reply to jofos
After a few heroics this AM on my bear, I noticed I am not as rage starved as I was pre 3.2 A big change was the instant 20 range from enrage + a tick up after. So if you power shift till furor kicks in you can engage a new pack with close to half a bar of rage. That makes a huge difference in multi tanking. I lost about 4% dodge, but with the new gear and easy conquest badges, it will be pretty easy to make up. |
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DruidTanker
@firstenergycorp.com | reply to jofos
Man I love that new ToC Tank trinket perfect for my druid! |
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Alderon
@net.mx
|  reply to Reanimator
Excuse my ignorance, I just started tanking as drood, but i don´t understand why use enrage if u loss mitigation while it´s active, I don´t use it and i don´t have much rage probs, could someone explain me why???
p.s. I post this to improve my tanking  |
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Sprakk
@eds.net
| reply to jofos
You use enrage prior to pulling.
Shift into bear form to get rage, then hit enrage. Once enrage has worn off and you have gained sufficient rage from it. Then you pull.
Don't pull while it's still active.
However, saying that. If I am rage-starved and I really need some extra rage in a fight for threat purposes, and I know I can handle the loss in mitigation. It's a good way to gain the rage needed. Although, these days, I'm not sure this is really necessary. |
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DruidTanker
@firstenergycorp.com | reply to jofos
I got the new trinket from ToC Reg (Black Heart) and I use my enrage when the trinket triggers to give the extra 7k+ armor to keep my rage full if need be. I just wish they would change the icon it shows when it triggers. |
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Zyncotl
Zed X
Premium
join:2002-09-13
Wayne, MI
1 edit | For bosses I wait for the enrage debuff to go away, but for packs I tend to enrage and go. The healer has nobody else to look at during that initial period so he can heal me a little if need be. I also rarely kick in furor, again except on bosses. Most packs leave me unable to drain my rage bar so that extra 10 energy isn't a big loss.
--
I'd take the time to insult your intelligence, but you probably wouldn't get it. |
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Eilinnar
@cogentco.com | Just a quick question. I see FFF used a lot in bear tank rotations and I use it myself. However, it now lasts for 5 minutes so why do I see tank rotations with FFF every few moves? Isn't this redundant or am I missing something?
Thanks.... |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
| said by Eilinnar :
Just a quick question. I see FFF used a lot in bear tank rotations and I use it myself. However, it now lasts for 5 minutes so why do I see tank rotations with FFF every few moves? Isn't this redundant or am I missing something?
Thanks....
The threat ranking on abilities is:
Mangle
Lacerate - 5 stacks
FFF
Swipe
Lacerate - Under 5 stacks
It's a good threat ability that don't use rage plus does damage everytime it's used. |
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