Many AT&T Employees Working Without Contracts > Is It Really That Bad?

reply to tfrionli

Re: Is It Really That Bad?

sad thing is when the tech came and installed uverse in my house he did everything he could to stop the install and get someone else to come and do it. What was so bad about my house was he had to drop one wire. And the sad thing was there was one pre pulled and he did not want to terminate it. The only reason the install got finished was that I the customer pulled the wire for him. He was truly a bad tech. But hey there is bad apples everywhere. Before anyone goes and says this was a complicated pull. It was in a finished attic and already had a hole drilled from where the cat 5 was running from the previous wireless internet in the house. Heck he could have even used that wire since it was leading to the box on the outside of the house. I had it mounted there to make it easy for a change over but this poor tech could not comprehend this concept of having the house already wired. He kept saying oh no we need to reschedule to wire this house.

Well I say a pox on that lazy tech lol

reply to Homer J
You know why your phone bill gets messed up? Because sales commissions make it lucrative to do so.

'Non-union techs are not any more pressure to get a certain amount of work done in a day then a union tech.'

How is, "If you don't get enough tasks a day done, you're put on notice. If you don't improve, you'll be penalized. If you keep getting penalized, you're fired" not pressure? The non-union tech can't push back and get some of the pressure off. The union tech has at least some outlet.

It sounds more like the non-union tech is expected to work during the time that he is paid. If he can not do the job, then perhaps he needs to look for another one. A union tech can not do his job and he whines to the union that they are working him too hard and wants to do less work for the same money. That's real productive.

reply to shoan
So how do you know this tech wasn't a Union tech and not a non-union.

ATT has a good amount of union employees that don't do their job. They love to just say "oh we can't fix the problem" Blah blah blah. I had one in Fremont OH who refused to fix a card out in the crossconnect box down the street. Every time it would rain or snow i'd lose phone. He kept getting the ticket and said "oh there is nothing WE can do, if we fix it we'll just be back out later to replace it again". I asked if it that wasn't what he got PAID to do. He did NOT respond and went to fix the line. (several of my neighbors had the same problem as well DUE to Ameritech putting installing the Cross Connect box in a hole and the vent slots UPSIDE DOWN!)

I reported him to ATT never did see him after that time at my house or around town.

reply to bogey780
The Definition of a Sales Rep is TO SELL YOU products NOT to give you support.

If you don't like that I don't know what to tell you as far as Sales Reps. They get paid hourly as well along with that extra bonus for extra services. ALL COMPANIES DO IT!

reply to Homer J
Ok, so when a tech arrives at your house and you want a phone jack installed, tell him to do it as fast as humanly possible. Every tech would gladly do it that way if they could.

Believe it or not, doing things as fast as humanly possibly doesn't mean it's of high quality. That's like saying China makes the best products in the world because clearly work harder.

reply to hottboiinnc
'The Definition of a Sales Rep is TO SELL YOU products NOT to give you support.'

Yup, and just because you end up with a package that costs you more...well that's really your problem.

So if the sales rep lies to you and you wind up with a package that costs you more it is your problem. Sales people lieing is not really a union/non-union issue. Although a lieing salesman will more likely be fired when he is non-union. The union will protect an individual, no matter what they may have done wrong.
Companies giev their sales people scripts to use to sell their packages, and leave out information that a customer needs to make an informed decision. Then they tell the customer they need to sign up right now on the phone or they will lose the deal.

reply to bogey780
As mentioned elsewhere there is a thing called personal responsibility. This allows people to do their jobs properly with pride. It does not mean they do it as fast as hunmanly possible, it means they do it correctly in a timely manner. They don't need to take 2 coffee breaks while doing a simple job or have to call their steward to see if it is ok to turn that screw.

reply to hottboiinnc
I bet you were glad you had a qualified union guy to tell you that he did not want to do his job correctly.
It seems that union or non-union there are plenty of people out there doing a lousy job and fortunately others there to clean up their mess behind them.

reply to Homer J
If you don't give someone an incentive to lie, you think they will?

reply to Homer J
But you don't understand. Their foreman said if they didn't get your job done in a set amount of time then they're through. Sorry, but you'll just have to accept substandard work because it benefits the rushed non-union employee more than his hourly paid non-rushed counterpart.

You must not have any experience in the trade if you think that managements goal is to give every tech as much time as it takes to get a job done.

So only union workers are allowed enough time to get their job done properly. I find that difficult to believe.
Allowing someone the time to do their job properly is just good business sense. If the job is done right the first time, it does not need to be done again. That is not a solely union idea.
So you were there when the foreman told them to do the job in a set amount of time, which was unreasoable, or is that what the union told you to think.
Quality work is qua
lity work whether the worker is union or non-union. A union worker doing a job does not guarantee the job will be done with any better quality than a non-union countrpart.
Using non-union people to do work does not mean you have to accept substandard work. If a contractor is providing substandard work, they will not survive long in business.
I have trade experience and have relatives who are retired and current union memebers. They tell many stories of lazy workers who are protected by the union. They often had to clean up their mess or had to work harder to make up for the other workers laziness. The lazy workers had no reason to do better as the union protected them. They were paid the same money for inferior work because the union said that was the way it should be. In the union mind people should all be paid the same for the same job, no matter how well or poorly they perform the job.

reply to bogey780
Interesting question, some people due to poor ethical upbrining are likely to lie with out incentive. Others may lie with a proper incentive. There are also people who will not lie no matter the incentive. Being union or non-union would not likely make a difference.

reply to Homer J

reply to Homer J
While I'm sure *your relatives* are a reasonably large and randomized sampling of their industries at large, I do believe you should reassess your initial conclusions.

Lazy people exist everywhere. Union or non-union. The point bogey is trying to make is that non-union workers have extra pressure to do a certain amount of work in a certain amount of time. As long as they can do a barely good enough job to avoid customer complaints they will complete the work as quickly and as substandardly as possible *to keep their job*.

reply to bogey780
In my experience in the Carpenters union, I was paid to do a job. the contractor paid my union wages and benefits. If I didn't do the job in the time the foreman figured it should be done I would get a pink slip on Friday with a "we don't need you anymore" end of discussion. I happened to be very good and worked journeyman level jobs as a 2nd year apprentice with a Journeyman to mentor me. By my third year I had a first year apprentice as my helper and we teamed up and made LOTS of money for the Contractor who didn't have to pay journeyman wages. Back then one would take pride in their work. Sadly there is little or no union carpentry being done in my area and the housing shows it! Wood butchering is what its called and I'm sure the same thing goes for Union telecom employees, There those who have pride and are really good and there are lazy shiftless bums who rely on unions to protect their sorry ass from being fired for incompetent work. There are also great non-union telecom workers. Being union is no guarantee of pride and responsibility for ones work work nor is it a indicator of quality. The bigger issue is the idea that life owes you a living and you should have everything you want and not have to work for it and two, the companies have no respect for those they employ and they are treated as throw away commodities!

Carpenters' unions are a different story than many.
--
Ali Fazel
i2Telecom Representative

reply to sonicmerlin
So a guy who does a lousy job and is lazy should be paid $25+/hour to do a job that could be mastered in a few hours because he needs to make a living wage. He needs to do something to earn that living wage. Showing up at work everyday is not enough to earn a living.
If you look at my other posts you will see I say there are plenty of hard working union people out there. They likely do not need the union. Companies will want to hire them as they work hard and take pride in their work. There are others who are lazy and need the union to prtect their job. Without the union they would have a hard time finding work if at all as they would have to be judged on their own performance.
I looked and I did not mention working 16 hours a day for a few dollars a day like in China.
I do think people need to be paid a fair wage for the job they are performing. A guy working on a production line somewhere should not be being paid $25+/hr for that type of work. If he wishes to make more money he could learn a skill or go to college to get a better job if he wishes to make more money. They also should not be paid most of their salary for showing up at a closed K-mart because the union won a concession from a company.
A corporation should be able to decide what they think the work is worth. If they do not pay enough they will raise the amount they are offering to get the people they need. Corparations have to live with the fear of bankruptcy everyday. They must compete with other businesses for people and sales all the time.
Corporations are owned by share holders and they are responsible to them to make a profit and give the investor a return on their investment. So it should be ok for them to make money in a fair and ethical way. I
If they are subjecting their employees to such draconian conditions. The employees should quit and find employment elsewhere. If enough people do this, the company will change their rules to get the people they need.
A job and a certain amount of pay is not an entitlement as the union seems to tell people. People should have to earn what they get and if they want more they can work harder or get more education to get a better job.