[PA] Beer Sales - dslreports.com

Author	All Replies
Billa9b0ng Premium join:2002-04-08 Altoona, PA ·Verizon Online DSL	[PA] Beer Sales I for one would love to see some change in PAs laws on alcohol. I know it is very difficult for anything to change in government (especially when they can't pass a state budget) but I feel that this effort is worth 48 seconds of your time. All you have to do is put in your zip and hit 'take action'. I would suggest selecting the 'printed letter' option, but it's up to you ( an email is easily ignored, but a bunch of letters in the mail adds up). I look forward to your comments and I hope that you are willing to exert this effort. If you disagree with alcohol/beer sales, I respectfully don't care Drink on. »capwiz.com/sheetz/home/ -- The floggings will continue until morale improves!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-13 21:21:33 ·
Kristopher Premium join:2002-10-11 Middletown, PA ·Comcast	Done. I agree that we need to make this change for all grocery stores and min-marts. But these decisions are all money based. It's not for the "good" of the people. The Beer Distributors and Bars have decent sized lobbying groups, and are the ones fighting this the most. If beer can be bought at a Sheetz any time of the day or night, there will be less people buying cases from the distributors, and even less people buying 6 or 12 packs at bars. Both groups would be set up to lose a good chunk of money. »www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.···eer.html From what I recall, Wegman's (grocery) got permission to sell alcohol, but I think it's because they have a "restaurant" on premises (not 100% on that). They also have huge lobbying power, as they are bringing a lot of jobs and money into the state. That's mainly how they got past the law, as I see it. »www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.···ens.html Enjoy the comments at the bottom of the articles from PennLive. The posters in PA are very negative about everything. It's fascinating. One I liked from the first article is that PA is a special interest's paradise, and a consumer's nightmare. At least that one is accurate! -- Play DSLr Mafia: »Pub Games
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-14 09:00:21 ·
Billa9b0ng Premium join:2002-04-08 Altoona, PA ·Verizon Online DSL	I really liked this comment: Beer in a grocery store? In Central Pennsylvania? You hear that? I think it's Jesus, crying. we are a special people -- The floggings will continue until morale improves!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-14 12:07:24 ·
dcm join:2008-09-12 Pennsylvania	reply to Kristopher said by Kristopher : From what I recall, Wegman's (grocery) got permission to sell alcohol, but I think it's because they have a "restaurant" on premises (not 100% on that). Wegman's has various food venues (pizza, hoagies, hot food bar, etc) with a cafe area where you can eat your selection (and have a beer). In addition, they have take-out beer. Some of the beer prices aren't that much more than a beer distributor, plus you get 6 or 12 packs instead of having to get a case at a beer distributor. IIRC, then purchase limit is 192 oz.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-14 16:26:22 ·
CtrlAltDel WORSE. THAN. CARTER. Arbitrary Text join:2001-12-30 Backyard ·1and1 ·Verizon Online DSL ·Comcast	reply to Billa9b0ng The stupid laws on the books that are enforced by the Liquor Control Board are ridiculous. [rant] There is no such thing as a "Bar" in PA. There are restaurant taverns. Every "bar" must have seating for 30 people and have food to feed those people or they can face stiff penalties. Next time you go to the corner taproom ask the owner if he has a copy of "The Observer" magazine. Inside there are listed liquor code violations by county. You will find some of the violations outrageous. The state of Pennsylvania is the largest purchaser of wine and spirits in the US and second in the world only to the Liquor Control Board of Ontario in Canada. All liquor licensees must purchase their liquor from a state Wine & Spirits store and they may not import liquor from out of state. All of these laws need to be changed and all liquor stores should be privately owned. [/rant]
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-16 21:39:17 ·
KoolMoe Aw Man Premium join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD clubs: ·Verizon FIOS ·Speakeasy	reply to Billa9b0ng I have a friend north of Pittsburgh whose family has owned a local beer distributor for generations. The current manager is worried about these proposals. If cases/kegs can be bought at the local supermarkets, he's out of business. What's the real advantage to buying beer in a supermarket? Simply customer convenience? Isn't having such purchases restricted to a fewer venues wise as far as fewer places to monitor? What can be offered to the current distributors as mitigation for their loss of business? Plans for converting to another business model? State assistance (since their legislation is what would drive them out of business? I'm not necessarily opposed to beer in grocery stores - having gone to college in PA, I thought it was stupid to have to make a separate distributor trip to get beer myself! But now knowing the other side, how can this be made more equitable and is it really necessary? ABC stores, on the other hand, I totally agree with changing. KM -- Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-17 15:18:24 ·
Billa9b0ng Premium join:2002-04-08 Altoona, PA ·Verizon Online DSL	I have thought of these things and I haven't been been able to make up my mind nor find a solution. My thoughts are as follows: - Perhaps there would be more need for the 'big time ' distributors since beer is going to have to be delivered to more places. - Current distributors who carry a variety of specialty beers would still be needed. Gas stations / grocery stores can't provide the expertise or selection to customers who look for beers other than the major brews. -I feel increased availability would benefit consumers for the obvious convenience aspect of it, but I feel that prices would come down as well. In the short time that Sheetz sold beer in Altoona, it was cheaper to buy 2 12 packs there versus a case at a distributor. (I realize they may have just been selling at rock bottom price to get people in the store, but it worked) -- The floggings will continue until morale improves!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-17 16:05:15 ·
Mike D I want your skulls Premium join:2001-09-12 Harrisburg, PA clubs: ·Comcast	reply to Kristopher said by Kristopher : The Beer Distributors and Bars have decent sized lobbying groups, and are the ones fighting this the most. I know the distributor i buy my kegs from was fighting hard against Wegmans being able to sell beer. So basically the difference between Sheetz and Wegmans is that you can't drink on the premises at Sheetz. If i remember correctly Wegmans basically got a liquor license, just like a bar, so maybe they have to operate like a bar. Seems stupid though that on-site drinking would be a stipulation but the stupidity of PA laws never really surprise me. -- In a society that is drug infested, violence wracked, and polluted by chemical greed, no one has ever died from an overdose of pornography! ______________________________
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-09 15:39:16 ·
Kristopher Premium join:2002-10-11 Middletown, PA ·Comcast	You're exactly right. It's the on-site drinking. Just imagine it though; I'm going to Sheetz for a hot dog and beer. We're sitting on the patio, drinking and watching people pump gas...... -- Play DSLr Mafia: »Pub Games
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-09 15:41:48 ·
Mike D I want your skulls Premium join:2001-09-12 Harrisburg, PA clubs: ·Comcast 1 edit	reply to KoolMoe said by KoolMoe : I have a friend north of Pittsburgh whose family has owned a local beer distributor for generations. The current manager is worried about these proposals. If cases/kegs can be bought at the local supermarkets, he's out of business. What's the real advantage to buying beer in a supermarket? Simply customer convenience? Isn't having such purchases restricted to a fewer venues wise as far as fewer places to monitor? What can be offered to the current distributors as mitigation for their loss of business? Plans for converting to another business model? State assistance (since their legislation is what would drive them out of business? I'm not necessarily opposed to beer in grocery stores - having gone to college in PA, I thought it was stupid to have to make a separate distributor trip to get beer myself! But now knowing the other side, how can this be made more equitable and is it really necessary? ABC stores, on the other hand, I totally agree with changing. KM The grocery/convenient store would have to be limited to keep distributors from going under. Basically only allowing singles, six packs and 12 packs (singles would be ideal in my opinion, let me build my own sixer) to be sold. Basically not allowing more than a 12 pack out the door per customer (not that people couldn't get around this) and keep the cases and kegs at the distributor. Maybe jack the price up a bit charge people for the convenience, there are probably a lot of people out there that would drive an extra mile or two if a case was 20 at the distributor and 12 pack was 15 at the store, i know i would. It's all about balance to come to mutual agreement that benefits everyone and I'm sure if someone sat down long enough they could figure it out, but being a contractor for the state I know first hand that state workers are lazy...lol. -- In a society that is drug infested, violence wracked, and polluted by chemical greed, no one has ever died from an overdose of pornography! ______________________________
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-09 15:57:43 ·
lagged join:2001-10-30 Narberth, PA	reply to Billa9b0ng Delaware just passed laws allowing beer to be sold in grocery stores. They need to be a certain size, like over 5000 sqft. That is supposed to keep the beer stores happy, but beer stores in DE also sell liquor and wine. -- tight lines and screaming reels
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-10 10:59:31 ·
Billa9b0ng Premium join:2002-04-08 Altoona, PA ·Verizon Online DSL	said by lagged : Delaware just passed laws allowing beer to be sold in grocery stores. They need to be a certain size, like over 5000 sqft. That is supposed to keep the beer stores happy, but beer stores in DE also sell liquor and wine. Interesting. I hope this doesn't cause them any problems (I don't see why it would). I was just thinking, if PA were to pass any kind of reform (much less a budget) I hope they don't do any of that 3.2% BS. -- The floggings will continue until morale improves!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-10 12:20:15 ·
KoolMoe Aw Man Premium join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD clubs: ·Verizon FIOS ·Speakeasy	reply to Mike D We did have sub and pizza shops where we could buy up to a 12 pack at a time. It was more expensive than a distributor, of course, but a great way to get a few more beers before everything shut down at 2am. I lived a block from one so they saw a lot of my business.... KM -- Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-10 14:14:23 ·
Mike D I want your skulls Premium join:2001-09-12 Harrisburg, PA clubs: ·Comcast 2 edits	Yeah don't get me wrong I will overpay for beer in a pinch. I went golfing last weekend and it cost me $11.50 for a SIX pack of Miller Light. But golf with no beer...that's like...well it's like anything with no beer...beer just makes things better. -- In a society that is drug infested, violence wracked, and polluted by chemical greed, no one has ever died from an overdose of pornography! ______________________________
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-10 14:42:43 ·
nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA ·Cox HSI ·Speakeasy	reply to KoolMoe said by KoolMoe : I have a friend north of Pittsburgh whose family has owned a local beer distributor for generations. The current manager is worried about these proposals. If cases/kegs can be bought at the local supermarkets, he's out of business. [...] What can be offered to the current distributors as mitigation for their loss of business? Plans for converting to another business model? State assistance (since their legislation is what would drive them out of business? So, what you're saying is, a "valid" reason for maintaining the status quo is to perpetuate the favored status of businesses that have no real reason to be around absent those protections? Really, what it sounds like is that you're in favor of continuing the Pennsylvania equivalent of the East India Company. -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-10 17:56:13 ·
KoolMoe Aw Man Premium join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD clubs: ·Verizon FIOS ·Speakeasy	I'm not necessarily opposed to beer in grocery stores...But now knowing the other side, how can this be made more equitable and is it really necessary? Not sure I was necessarily advocating one or the other. Right or wrong, these businesses are established as a result of state regulation. If the state wants to change the regulations, ok...but do they not have some responsibility to those businesses? Again, I'm not advocating for the status quo necessarily, but that the state does bear some responsibility here to help mitigate the effects of their regulatory change. That's not reasonable? KM -- Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-11 01:35:36 ·
nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA ·Cox HSI ·Speakeasy	said by KoolMoe : I'm not necessarily opposed to beer in grocery stores...But now knowing the other side, how can this be made more equitable and is it really necessary? Not sure I was necessarily advocating one or the other. Right or wrong, these businesses are established as a result of state regulation. If the state wants to change the regulations, ok...but do they not have some responsibility to those businesses? No, they don't. Just because those businesses were established due to presence of legal protections for their business models does not mean they have right to those models/protections. This is particularly so where those protections work at odds to the benefit of the public that the laws are supposed to serve. said by KoolMoe : Again, I'm not advocating for the status quo necessarily, but that the state does bear some responsibility here to help mitigate the effects of their regulatory change. No, they don't bear responsibility. Business climates change all the time with no guarantees of protection or survival to the effected businesses. It's how a free-market system is supposed to work. said by KoolMoe : That's not reasonable? No, it's not. Do you think it's reasonable to force the citizenry at large to protect the profitability of businesses (either through direct subsidy or creating a market with falsely inflated pricing)? -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-11 10:49:18 ·
Billa9b0ng Premium join:2002-04-08 Altoona, PA ·Verizon Online DSL	said by nixen : No, it's not. Do you think it's reasonable to force the citizenry at large to protect the profitability of businesses (either through direct subsidy or creating a market with falsely inflated pricing)? You are right, but since when did that matter to lawmakers ? -- The floggings will continue until morale improves!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-16 11:54:03 ·
nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA ·Cox HSI ·Speakeasy	said by Billa9b0ng : said by nixen : No, it's not. Do you think it's reasonable to force the citizenry at large to protect the profitability of businesses (either through direct subsidy or creating a market with falsely inflated pricing)? You are right, but since when did that matter to lawmakers ? Greasy palms are the foundation of government. -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-16 19:51:47 ·
pfqdrx join:2002-11-23 Whitehall, PA	reply to CtrlAltDel said by CtrlAltDel : The stupid laws on the books that are enforced by the Liquor Control Board are ridiculous. [rant] There is no such thing as a "Bar" in PA. There are restaurant taverns. Every "bar" must have seating for 30 people and have food to feed those people or they can face stiff penalties. Next time you go to the corner taproom ask the owner if he has a copy of "The Observer" magazine. Inside there are listed liquor code violations by county. You will find some of the violations outrageous. The state of Pennsylvania is the largest purchaser of wine and spirits in the US and second in the world only to the Liquor Control Board of Ontario in Canada. All liquor licensees must purchase their liquor from a state Wine & Spirits store and they may not import liquor from out of state. All of these laws need to be changed and all liquor stores should be privately owned. [/rant] Another good source of info including violations and ownership is at the lcb site. »www.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/Agenc···ault.asp The state of PA is never going to give up their monopoly. How else would they get away with taxing a tax?
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-09-19 14:11:36 ·


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