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backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

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CRTC Haters - Help Mlerner Cram for Interview on CRTC

Hello,

If you have some free time now, could you please take a moment to do some research on CRTC decisions and post the outcomes here.

We are going to try to make a cheet sheet for Mlerner for him interveiw this evening.

Any information is usuful. Of particular interest are quick facts i.e the number of comments, how much it costs more for wholesalers then for bell provisioned service.. ect...

I'm going to go and try to find this info now to get us started.
backness

1 edit

backness

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I just performed a random sampling of all the comments the crtc has posted on the case. There were 6270 unique names on the list, after removing duplicates. I used a random number generator to give me 147 random comments, enough to ensure my stats are within 8%, 19 times out of 20. (5% would need a couple hundred more, maybe later!)

So the results:
Anti Bell/crtc/UBB: 146 (99.3%)
Pro Bell/crtc/UBB: 0 (0%)
Blank entry: 1 (0.7%)
backness

backness

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I didn't perform sampling btw
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

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More of a talking point, but this most recent decision specifically mentions that is to bring it in line with the TPIA (cable internet wholesale) decision. It may be worth mentioning that competition in the cable internet market is almost non-existent.
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

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said by thankyouuser :

Basically you are all correct; there are a lot of problems:

1: Bell disobeyed the CRTC by refusing to produce the tariff they ordered them to produce (still the stay decision has not been made!)

2: Bell filed a totally unrelated tariff including UBB that the CRTC approved through ridiculous reasoning ("it is discriminatory, but not so discriminatory that it is discriminatory..." or something).

3: they made this decision without amending the current GAS tariff so that there is now double dipping.

4: they clearly are stifling competition, contrary to their mandate, by not allowing differentiation of service by whoelsalers from Bell retail (also against their mandate to allow market forces to promote competition, assuming they agree that UBB WILL promote competition...somehow).


Industry Can
@mc.videotron.ca

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1. Bell, Rogers, Cogeco drops a percentage of packets to slow down how fast you can upload or download (this is how throttling works). Packets that never make it to its destination.

Result, you send or receive a 5-gig file and they charge your for over 7-gig.

With UBB in place The Bell's in Canada not only charge you for the B/W, they are charing you for the b/w they just threw away on you.

(in simple terms, they are dropping +30% of the packets and making you pay for the packets they drop)

In TSI's case this is now a triple dip.

TSI will add this to your bill courtesy of Bell Canada.

2. Since Bell, Rogers, Cogeco can't calculate B/W properly as seen throughout their own forums, and since Weights and Measures Canada (another Industry Canada branch) refuses to step in, people are being over-charged on B/W. This is a known fact that can be seen in these forums.

Result: quadrupole dip.

Rape, Rape, Rape, and more financial Rape with the government allowing it to happen.
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

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»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archi ··· -484.htm

^^ Quick Reference to the CRTC Decision in question
cacruden
join:2008-03-18
thailand

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not really thinking about it but CRTC is crap:
- FCC has device mandates to try and give consumers choice (at least one digital receiver has to have firewire port active for other devices; cable card) while CRTC completely ignores consumers.
- CRTC cancom regulations are completely stupid; syfy (scifi) is available in 50 countries - while not allowed to be broadcast in Canada - yet they probably spend more on producing programs in Vancouver Canada than Space spends - so just because you are Canadian owned - you are allowed to screw the people.
- Now they are moving towards potentially allowing carriage fees for companies that are fraudulently claiming that they must be paid for Cable to carry them - they are focused on direct and not cable - guess what - not a single HDTV broadcaster in Toronto is more than 3 watts of power; US stations in Buffalo - on the low end are 500 watts - yet the CRTC is going to fall for this fraud.
- In a competitive environment, weak companies fail - not a single station has failed - why - it is because the CRTC is out there trying to subsidize large companies by forcing you the customer to subscribe to a bunch of stations - that are no more than just rebroadcasting from other stations they own - to the detriment of the consumer that is forced to pay for all this crap.

grayfox
join:2007-12-10
Whitby, ON

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I have no idea how accurate this is but this is the rough costs Ive seen posted before.

$21 per customer for Gateway access service

$1200 for a link to gas (each link is 1gigabit I believe teksavvy has 8 of these)

Im sure theres way more fees too but this is just what comes to mind.

Plus all of teksavvy's costs, Transit colocation,routers software licences.

Its amazing that they can even offer this for $30 a month as it is.

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

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Thanks guys, this is a big help! I am trying to fit all this in my notes.

An_Onymous
@teksavvy.com

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- CRTC fumble with the privacy of public's fully contact info making them available on website.
- CRTC's do not call list has too many exceptions. Also the irony of the list itself being used as calling list by direct marketing companies in the states.

- look at all of recent U.S. vs CRTC decisions on Net Neutrality, Throttling and Pay per Usage. Pretty much FCC made all the right calls and CRTC screwed up every single one of them. Might as well just use the FCC's regulations here.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
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join:2008-04-28
Tronna

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Not to mentin the FCC actually fined comcast and forced them into protocol agnostic throttling, whereas the CRTC simply rubber-stamped Bell Canada's throttling.
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

backness

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oO that's a good one
bt
join:2009-02-26
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Might be worth having a few answers to "what else can people do?" Where they can complain, who they can write to, etc. Maybe mention that letters can be sent to the Parliament Hill office of any MP postage free.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

3 edits

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said by grayfox:

$1,200 (monthly ?) for a link to gas (each link is 1gigabit - I believe teksavvy has 8 of these)
.
They now have 10, as of around the time of the 151 Front Fire.
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

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Also, some examples of network management in other countries, such as the 30gb daily upload limit in Japan (»arstechnica.com/old/cont ··· aily.ars) or even the 250gb limit from Comcast.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
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join:2009-06-15
Canada

1 edit

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said by El Quintron:

Not to mention the FCC actually fined Comcast and forced them into protocol agnostic throttling, whereas the CRTC simply rubber-stamped Bell Canada's throttling.
.
Yes, a very important precedent case, EVEN if in another country.
backness
join:2005-07-08
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backness

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Bell insurance: 40GB = $5 12.5cents per Gig

Bell Wholesale of Gigabytes over 300GB = 75cents wholesale

Quebec Ontario = 19Million people

Population of Canada = 31 Million

Aprox 64% of the country lives under these rules and it costs even more in Quebec

otty
join:2008-10-24
Revelstoke, BC

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said by BACONATOR26:

Thanks guys, this is a big help! I am trying to fit all this in my notes.
Don't take too many notes!

Like someone else said be brief. Stick to this issue at first in point form, then allude to the fact that the problems of the CRTC are spread across other decisions and platforms: like cellphones. That is a favourite. Everyone knows they are being ripped off there.

Maybe like how I posted the link to the petition on facebook:

Do you want you internet billed like your cellphone? By how much you use it?

Good luck. We're RIGHT behind you!

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
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join:2008-04-28
Tronna

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Remember you're talking to the media which also means brief and (hopefully) irrefutable soundbites.
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

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said by backness:

Bell Wholesale of Gigabytes over 300GB = 75cents wholesale
Remember that only comes into effect when Bell puts a $1/GB over 300GB charge in place for their retail clients. Watch out for easy counter-spin of this point based on that since Bell retail customers will have their bills go up faster than wholesale customers if they top 300gb (regardless of the fact that it's overpriced for both).

An_Onymous
@teksavvy.com

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Failure to perform to their own "3-YEAR WORK PLAN 2008-2011" »www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/BACKG ··· 2008.htm

>The Commission will continue to explore ex post regulatory measures with appropriate enforcement powers.

What about DPI? Where are the regulations as a result?

>A strong and competitive communications sector also requires that companies have access to the necessary infrastructure elements, including access to support structures, rights of way and multi-dwelling units, in order to provide services to consumers. The Commission will continue to pursue approaches that improve access for service providers to these infrastructure elements.

new GAS UBB screw up big on on that. Where are the higher speeds? Where are the TPI?

>New and innovative approaches may be required to ensure the contribution regime continues to be fair to all stakeholders and effectively serves Canadians.

UBB failed on that as Canadians are the stakeholders.

>The unique challenges facing small companies in the communications sector will also continue to be a concern for the Commission. We plan on continuing to monitor the impact of the increasingly competitive environment on small undertakings and their customers and to review our existing frameworks if necessary.

Like UBB will kill the small companies?

>Further, a cornerstone of the Commission's approach must be timeliness and efficiency. The Commission will continue to streamline to the greatest extent possible its processes in the next three years, continuing its work to ensure that it is responsive to a fast-changing digital environment.

They are so sloooooooow on responding to the DPI issues.

otty
join:2008-10-24
Revelstoke, BC

otty

Member

Basically I would repeat what was quoted in the CBC story as your response to Michael Henessy.

Take a tip from US Republicans (BLah but it works!) REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT.

but this time the truth
bt
join:2009-02-26
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Also, the station you're on tonight is in Calagary, correct? That's Telus territory so I'd make big on it setting a precedent for Telus to implement similar charges and caps in the future.

On that vein, Bell did severely lower the caps on all of their services in Ontario last month during the ITMP hearings.

An_Onymous
@teksavvy.com

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On the Do not call list: The Michael Geist's iopout site has a good summary: »www.ioptout.ca/

>The registry takes effect on September 30, 2008, yet many Canadians may be disappointed to learn about the exemption of a wide range of organizations (registered charities, business with prior relationships, political parties, survey companies, and newspapers). Under the law, exempted organizations are permitted to make unsolicited telephone calls despite the inclusion of the number in the do-not-call registry. However, organizations must remove numbers from their lists if specifically requested to do so.
backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

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backness

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www.radiotime.com/station/s_31172/AM_770.aspx

Ok its on..

Good Luck!
grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC

grunze510

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said by backness:

www.radiotime.com/station/s_31172/AM_770.aspx

Ok its on..

Good Luck!
+1

Good luck Mike.

Farchord
Lost somewhere.
join:2004-08-28
Shawinigan, QC

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said by backness:

Hello,

If you have some free time now, could you please take a moment to do some research on CRTC decisions and post the outcomes here.

We are going to try to make a cheet sheet for Mlerner for him interveiw this evening.

Any information is usuful. Of particular interest are quick facts i.e the number of comments, how much it costs more for wholesalers then for bell provisioned service.. ect...

I'm going to go and try to find this info now to get us started.
Good job man, I think the guy got it....

otty
join:2008-10-24
Revelstoke, BC

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Title_005.mp3
9,062,298 bytes
part1
Title_006.mp3
7,185,798 bytes
Part2
here are the recordings.

Thanks mlerner!

Jeffer71
join:2008-09-13
Carrying Place, ON

Jeffer71

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said by otty:

here are the recordings.

Thanks mlerner!
Thanks for this...storm knocked me off the internet up here in Consecon.