jaa Premium Member join:2000-06-13 4 edits
1 recommendation |
jaa
Premium Member
2009-Aug-22 10:10 pm
[Rant] Carbonite: Backup is not unlimited as they claimCarbonite makes two claims: 1. Unlimited storage - no limit to how large your backup can be. 2. Backup 2 to 3 gigabytes per day, depending on your connection speed.
The never tell you that after your backup gets large, they throttle down your backup speed.
Their log files are very clear about the problem:
Backup progress: low throughput due to server delays.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind they are throttling the backup speed to limit the amount of backup. There is nothing wrong with this - but their claim of 2 to 3 GB per day (used to claim 3 to 5gb and tech support still quotes those numbers) is FALSE.
Of course, you are months into your subscription with them before your backup exceeds their threshold and the throttling occurs.
Just when you think you have found a good company, and recommended them to others, they screw you.
There - now I feel better. I'm giving Mozy a try. Maybe they are an honest company. |
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removed Premium Member join:2002-02-08 Houston, TX |
removed
Premium Member
2009-Aug-22 10:13 pm
How much were you backing up? |
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to jaa
I am using Mozy free, let me know how you like it. |
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jaa Premium Member join:2000-06-13 2 edits |
jaa to removed
Premium Member
2009-Aug-22 10:20 pm
to removed
Slowed down to 1gb per day when it reached about 250gb.
2gb I could live with - it would keep up. But 1gb it does not.
I am trying Mozyhome on a different computer. Interested to see the difference in speed when the backup gets large. Unfortunately, it is going to take a while.
Backup content is 99% digital photos and photoshop files. |
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to jaa
I have used both Carbonite and MOZY. I had Carbonite for 2+ years, worked as advertised, had over 450 gigs backed up no problem, always maxed out my connection. However, problem came from their client, which is a buggy piece of shit. Switched to mozy, managed to re-back up all 450 gigs in 2 months using my Sprint EVDO Cellular (I get awesome speeds on my data card!). Real problem with Carbonite is, when you select to backup "Everything" it in fact, does NOT backup everything. Such as video files, files over a certain gig size and what not, which will then need to be done manually. With MOZY, when I told it to backup EVERYTHING, it DID BACKUP EVERYTHING! I am now a happy MOZY Customer. I am now pushing over 1tb of backed up data. Only problem I have now, is if I need to restore my data, you get 30 days to restore your data before it is removed from their servers, and my present internet connection, that is not possible |
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Netgear R6300 v2 ARRIS SB6180
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said by Anonuser:I have used both Carbonite and MOZY. I had Carbonite for 2+ years, worked as advertised, had over 450 gigs backed up no problem, always maxed out my connection. However, problem came from their client, which is a buggy piece of shit. Switched to mozy, managed to re-back up all 450 gigs in 2 months using my Sprint EVDO Cellular (I get awesome speeds on my data card!). Real problem with Carbonite is, when you select to backup "Everything" it in fact, does NOT backup everything. Such as video files, files over a certain gig size and what not, which will then need to be done manually. With MOZY, when I told it to backup EVERYTHING, it DID BACKUP EVERYTHING! I am now a happy MOZY Customer. I am now pushing over 1tb of backed up data. Only problem I have now, is if I need to restore my data, you get 30 days to restore your data before it is removed from their servers, and my present internet connection, that is not possible 30 days and the "backup" expires? dont sound like a backup to me. sounds like a limited storage option. im lucky in the fact i have backup thru my webhost. sure its not free free. but there is no time limit on the backups. its only 50GB's + $0.10 per GB over. but, i have an external for backups. im sure the online options are nice. but the way ISP's are goin with caps. im going to stick with onsite for fulls and both onsite and offsite for absolut criticle items. |
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jaa Premium Member join:2000-06-13 |
jaa
Premium Member
2009-Aug-23 6:46 pm
I wonder if the two are compatible - can both the Carbonite and Mozy client run on the same computer?
That would double the backup speed - split the folders between the two.
Seem sort of silly to be doing all this workaround stuff - would be a lot simpler if they would charge double and double the backup speed. |
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to jaa
You mis-understand. I do not need to keep re-uploading. It will stay on their servers indefinatly as long as the files still exist on the pc that the backups were purchased for, however, if my computer crashes, and I need to restore, once the original files are gone, the client gives 30 days to restore before the files that are not restored/exist on the backed up computer are removed. At least thats how I understand it. It may be though, that If I put the client program in restore mode, those files will continue to exist until restore is done, but If I were to delete files from my pc thats being backed up, they will be removed from their servers after 30 days. |
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Netgear R6300 v2 ARRIS SB6180
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said by Anonuser:You mis-understand. I do not need to keep re-uploading. It will stay on their servers indefinatly as long as the files still exist on the pc that the backups were purchased for, however, if my computer crashes, and I need to restore, once the original files are gone, the client gives 30 days to restore before the files that are not restored/exist on the backed up computer are removed. At least thats how I understand it. It may be though, that If I put the client program in restore mode, those files will continue to exist until restore is done, but If I were to delete files from my pc thats being backed up, they will be removed from their servers after 30 days. so basically what your saying is its just like an incrimental backup. if i delete a file on the pc that will no longer be backd up as it no longer exists and if i go in and delete the incrimental backups that contained that file im SOL... |
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to jaa
es and no. What you delete will be removed after 30 days. So it will still be backed up for 30 days.
If a file gets removed, it does not effect the other files on your backup. Only the one that was removed. |
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ElJay join:2004-03-17 Portland, ME Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite Ubiquiti Unifi UAP-AC-LITE
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to jaa
Wow, 250gb of photos. That's impressive. I'm conscious of the amount of stuff I back up since I use JungleDisk to Amazon S3 and pay for the amount of data I transfer plus the storage space used. I back up all of my photos, purchased music files, and documents to online storage. For me that adds up to about 10gb. Anything else is backed up locally to an external hard disk with either TrueImage or Synctoy, depending on the content I'm backing up.
So in the worst case scenario where my house burns down or I'm robbed, I have my most vital irreplaceable or costly to replace files, but the less important stuff will be lost. |
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La LunaFly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris Premium Member join:2001-07-12 New Port Richey, FL |
to jaa
I use Mozy, pay version. Seems to work well, except that on occasion (every few backup runs), the client freezes the computer and I have to reboot. Then Mozy auto runs again and it works. I've tried a few fixes listed on the website, such as reinstalling. It works for a while, then starts doing it again. I'm only backing up a little over 4GB at this point. |
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Visage to jaa
Anon
2009-Sep-11 8:46 am
to jaa
Synology Cubestation CS407e (or newest version).... It holds up to four SATA drives as RAID0, 1, 5 or JBOD. I personally use two RAID1 volumes. VOL1 (320g) is for digital pictures and VOL2 (1T) is for music, movies and software. - If hurricane comes (I live in Florida) I send one HD with my family when they head to higher ground. - Two to three times a year I burn a DVD of all my pics and mail to my dad's. - Uses a standard file system. If the box bricks you can plug any of the drives into a standard Windows machine and it'll be readable. - Also acts as the following servers: FTP, HTTP, iTunes, camera and more. TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR JUNK |
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Kramer Mod join:2000-08-03 Richmond, VA |
to jaa
I got in a heated chat session with Carbonite support when I discovered the same thing. I was uploading about 5GB/day for the first 50GB or so and then was throttled back significantly after that. They completely denied throttling, which I am sure is false. The fact that their support people lie about it is amazing. My data backup needs are around 100GB, so I am able to make due with their limitations. If I shoot some photos and come back from vacation with 5-10 gigs of pictures, it eventually gets backed up in a week or so. Even though I find their claim of "unlimited" to be a bit shady, they work out for my needs.
Lately I have become concerned more about their software than their throttling. I recommended the product to a client and immediately got a call that they thought Carbonite was significantly slowing their computer. The person is out of town, so I will spend more time looking at it when I see them again. Then yesterday, someone else who just installed it claimed the same thing. Fortunately I had done a little research and knew more about it. Carbonite puts a heavy load on your CPU while it is backing up, even in low priority mode. The load is so high, that on my Core2 Duo E6600, I would see both CPUs spike to somewhere between 50-70% about 1/3 of the time. You would see 50% usage for 5-10 seconds then a drop for 10-20 seconds then another spike over and over again. Basically during backup I have found the CPU is running at 50% load or more 1/3 of the time. As soon as the backup stops, the load goes away.
Now whenever I use my computer, I pause my backups the number of hours I think I will be working on the computer. That is a pain. I wish I could just schedule backups to occur during specific hours or I just wish the product wasn't that CPU intensive. If you limit your backup hours, their throttling really puts a kink in your backup armor. I had stopped recommending the product except for people with very light backup needs (well under 50GB, which is most people). Having received the second complaint in the same number of weeks about computer slowdowns, I've stopped recommending the product altogether.
If the software were stable and they didn't throttle, I would say 55 bucks a years for 100 gigs or more of backup capability is a steal. In the end you get what you pay for. |
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ElJay join:2004-03-17 Portland, ME |
ElJay to jaa
Member
2009-Sep-11 10:25 am
to jaa
I would assume the CPU load is compression and/or encryption going on (hopefully in that order ). |
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Kramer Mod join:2000-08-03 Richmond, VA |
Kramer
Mod
2009-Sep-11 4:22 pm
They also do some pretty cool stuff with only updating file changes. For instance: if you have a 3GB PST file that needs backing up, they only send the part that has changed. This keeps backup times to minimum. I assume that takes some pretty heavy work to figure out on a file by file basis. |
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jaa Premium Member join:2000-06-13 4 edits |
jaa
Premium Member
2009-Sep-12 7:17 am
Carbonite tech support continues to deny throttling. Carbonite is limping along at 1gb per day. Mozy is backing up 15gb per day.
Here is the Carbonite log from my computer. While I'm no expert on Carbonite logs, it seems pretty clear they are throttling. You would think a tech support person would be embarrased to look at that and tell the customer to defrag their hard disk. The last line I pulled from the log leaves little doubt of the problem.
1251044787 @ Backup progress: file speeds last minute All: 102 Kbps, Unique: 102 Kbps, Compressed: 100 Kbps
1251044787 @ Backup progress: completed 10%, file counts last 1 15:00:08 All: 310 (627M bytes) Unique: 310 (627M bytes), Compressed: 1694M bytes.
1251044787 @ Backup progress: remaining 6 days, file counts All: 56904 (370G bytes), Pending: 476 (5966M bytes).
1251044787 @ Backup progress: task seconds last minute, Active: 60 (100%) Response Waiting: 0 (0%) Send Waiting: 2 (3%) Sending: 10 (17%) Delayed: 25 (42%), server delay 42%
1251044787 @ Backup hourly progress: throughput per-minute counts in Kbps [> 109008, 109008-54504, 54504-27252, 40, 39-20, 19-1, 40, 39-20, 19-1, 40, 39-20, 19-1, 40, 39-20, 19-1, 1] [0, 0, 0, 60]
1251044787 @ Backup hourly progress: minutes LowPri: 0, Reset: 1. Average files count: 0, average files size: 63 Kbytes
1251044787 Backup progress: low throughput due to server delays.
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Kramer Mod join:2000-08-03 Richmond, VA 1 edit |
Kramer
Mod
2009-Sep-12 8:47 am
It is obvious the company is stretched financially, but you (and I) have data backup needs that go well beyond that of the average user. If you read the Carbonite TOS, you will see a clause that allows them to cancel you if they feel your data backup needs are excessive. This got them so much bad press, that they probably just use throttling to get excessive users so frustrated, they leave and don't come back. This way, they don't have to issue a refund. They really don't want you as a customer. It is just another example in this crazy world where the word "unlimited" means nothing close to that in reality.
Keep in mind Carbonite also had one incident where they lost a number of customer's data. There is no backup of your backup, or at least then that was the case. They use large RAID arrays and ended up suing (I think it was Promise tech.) for a RAID failure that caused them to lose a fair number of customers data. This only effected those who had hard drive failures while they were down, but I assume a much larger number had to re-upload their backups. Their claim if I recollect correctly was that they lost .2% of their customers data. These are people who had hard drive failures, since .2% is the number of hard drives that will fail in any given week. I find the fact that they consider a RAID array to be adequate enough to protect their customer's data a bit disturbing. |
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jaa Premium Member join:2000-06-13 |
jaa
Premium Member
2009-Sep-12 5:55 pm
I have no issue with throttling or cancelling users.
What I dislike is the lies.
So far, Mozy is true to their word and has no trouble maxing out my 2gb connection. |
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Kramer Mod join:2000-08-03 Richmond, VA |
Kramer
Mod
2009-Sep-12 6:44 pm
I agree. I wish they would just be honest and tell you what you are paying for, so you can make an educated decision as to whether or not you want to do business with them. |
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NOCManMadMacHatter Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Colorado Springs, CO |
NOCMan to jaa
Premium Member
2009-Sep-13 2:44 am
to jaa
www.getdropbox.com
Works on Windows, Linux, Mac.. best backup service I've ever had. |
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Netgear R6300 v2 ARRIS SB6180
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said by NOCMan:www.getdropbox.com Works on Windows, Linux, Mac.. best backup service I've ever had. 2GB of online storage for free, with up to 100GB available to paying customers you must not have noticed the folks with 200GB's plus to backup.. |
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Kramer Mod join:2000-08-03 Richmond, VA |
to NOCMan
said by NOCMan:www.getdropbox.com Works on Windows, Linux, Mac.. best backup service I've ever had. Maybe because they charge many times more than what Mozy and Carbonite charge. 100GB would cost me $240/year with drop box. With Mozy and Carbonite it would cost around 1/4 that amount for unlimited storage. Drop box sounds cool for people that need to sync files across large distances. |
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NOCManMadMacHatter Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Colorado Springs, CO 1 edit |
NOCMan
Premium Member
2009-Sep-13 12:34 pm
said by Kramer:said by NOCMan:www.getdropbox.com Works on Windows, Linux, Mac.. best backup service I've ever had. Maybe because they charge many times more than what Mozy and Carbonite charge. 100GB would cost me $240/year with drop box. With Mozy and Carbonite it would cost around 1/4 that amount for unlimited storage. Drop box sounds cool for people that need to sync files across large distances. We'll you get what you pay for. There is no such thing as unlimited storage, go out and grab a set of 2tb hard drives and install them into a ReadyNAS NV + if you're worried about your data and use the included sync software. Unless it's photos you should have a physical media backup for every piece of digital media you have. Take all the labels and store them in a safety deposit box or fire/flood proof safe. Then if you house burns down you can take the proof of ownership to the insurance company and buy replacements. |
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jaa Premium Member join:2000-06-13 |
jaa
Premium Member
2009-Sep-14 5:57 pm
That sounds nice, but having automatic off-site backup for $55 per year is automated, timely, and less expensive.
Both Mozy and Carbonite charge $55/year and offer "unlimited" storage.
In the past week, Mozy has backed up 103gb. Carbonite backed up 7gb. The Carbonite backup is still over 3 times the size of Mozy (it had a year head start), but Mozy is closing in fast. It will be interesting to see if Mozy pulls the same nonsense as Cabonite when the backup gets larger - they say they don't. |
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jaa |
jaa
Premium Member
2009-Sep-19 6:20 pm
Finally got an honest reply from Carbonite. Their unlimited backup is for all practical purposes limited to 200gb, at which point they severely cripple the service. said by Carbonite :
The average Carbonite user backs up between 2GB and 3GB per day. Carbonite backs up an unlimited amount of data, however users with more than 200GB of data selected for back up will find that completing their initial backup will take a longer period of time. Carbonite allocates more bandwidth to new users doing a typical initial backup of less than 35GB, and allocates less to users after their back up exceeds 200GB. Once your initial backup is complete, updates to your backup usually take only a few minutes each day. Therefore if you have in excess of 200GB of data it would be best to manually select only your important files first. You may also want to consider backing up your larger less important files locally. |
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sounds like the crap netflix used to pull with there unlimited rentals. theyd give priority to new sub's and existing sub's would take a back seat after a while... they got sued over it. wonder when carbonite will find out the hardway like netflix did.. |
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rudnicke Premium Member join:2004-10-23 Rantoul, IL |
to jaa
Where do you find the Carbonite Backup log? I think I've been having this same throttling issue as well. |
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morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 |
to jaa
jungledisk. get it. use it. |
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TechnogeezAgape in amazement. Premium Member join:2007-01-20 |
to jaa
Don't like online storage? Bite the bullet and buy the hardware. You can get WHS and a cheap desktop for $500. How many years of online service can you get for that much money? |
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