 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA kudos:5 | Defending Net Neutrality I have had to think about this today as I prepare to present to tomorrow's Broadband workshop: »broadband.gov/ws_tech_applications.html
Just a few days ago, we had a Dutch ISP announce that they were going to preference only HTTP for several hours a day. Now that probably makes some semblance of sense on the surface, but dig just a little deeper and it has these harmful effects:
- anyone who is developing a new network product will be encouraged to make it HTTP based, even if it is not appropriate to do so
- no non-HTTP technology will ever be able to emerge to grow more popular than HTTP
This is very similar to the Cox experiment (whatever happened to that?) in Kansas and Arkansas, or Comcast's former discrimination against P2P uploads. Well intended, maybe, but too blunt and damaging.
We need a policy that allows network management, let me be clear on that. But we can't have ISPs hamhandedly turning their part of the 'net into an Oasis for the things they like and a Hell for the things that they don't. The Internet should evolve normally, not with ISPs picking winners and losers. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 |
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 NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium join:2002-03-05 | said by funchords:We need a policy that allows network management, let me be clear on that. But we can't have ISPs hamhandedly turning their part of the 'net into an Oasis for the things they like and a Hell for the things that they don't. The Internet should evolve normally, not with ISPs picking winners and losers. Wow! I don't think I could have said it better myself.
Now one can only hope that providers like AT&T start to realize this and take a reasonable approach to their wireless access policies. Allowing audio/video streaming apps like Major League Baseball onto their network while prohibiting audio/video streaming apps like Slingbox Player seems to be a situation screaming for rectification. -- Trusting the Democrats to fix our economy and give us health care is like trusting the fox with keys to the henhouse, a brand new gas stove, and a pantry full of goodies for side dishes. In the end, all will be dead and nothing but lies will be told. |
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 1 edit | reply to funchords Rob, I generally agree with you and I am not completely disagreeing with you on your statement "We need policy that allows network management,..". However, I would state that they have all the network management they need available to them right now. They can easily manage this very small group of people abusing their network (their own words) individually without attempting to shape the internet by blocking protocols or by affecting the entire user base by impeding their ability to use the connection they purchased. In reality what they really want is a way to manage monetization, not the utilization, of the network.
Who are they, or even any of us, to say what protocols, applications, or content is too much or more important than another to someone else? Real time video / voice may be important to one, where as real time gaming or web surfing may be important to another. It is not their or our decision to make for anyone else. They are a dumb pipe and the sooner they realize that and stop trying to be gatekeepers to appease the stock jockeys, the better off everyone will be.
If their network or a node can't handle the use of the users, regardless of what the use is, then they need to do one of the below things to "manage it", all of which are available to them now and require no laws or government intervention.
1.) Expand the network or node bandwidth capacity 2.) Reduce the # of users on the node or network 3.) Reduce the user's provisioned speed to something that the network or node can actually support when a large % of the users are utilizing it. 4.) Individuals that saturate the network or a node should be dealt with individually with even a termination of service if need be. By saturate, I mean use a large % of network utilization for a long period of time. This does not mean downloading xGB as a person can do that easily without ever using more than a very small % of the network/node bandwidth. In essences, it doesn't matter if I just downloaded the entire internet to my iPod if I never used more than 3% of the bandwidth available. But it does matter if I just did the same thing using 97% of the network resources for 28 days of the month.
Problem is they don't want to do any of those things. The first, cost money, the second reduces revenue, the third hurts their marketing efforts, and the forth gives them a black eye. They dug this hole. Let them climb out of it and let their short term stock jockeys suffer the consequences of their greed. |
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 2 edits | reply to funchords Robb, I'm now watching you on video from the FCC headquarters, where you have just stated that you work for Google's lobbying groups in DC (Free Press, Public Knowledge, and the New America Foundation). It seems to me that your anti-ISP and anti-innovation stance is motivated by your connections with these groups, which are being paid by Google to promote laws and regulations that would help Google and cripple its current or potential competitors.
ISPs are not "picking winners and losers;" they're rationing expensive bandwidth so as to provide the most satisfying experience for the greatest number of their customers at a reasonable cost. Our customers want us to do this, and we will continue to do it for them despite your attempts to destroy us via unwarranted and unneeded regulation. |
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 sivranBack to Opera againPremium join:2003-09-15 Arlington, TX kudos:1 | Wow, the extent of your pro-ISP/anti-consumer bias is shocking. -- In dadkins' memory, Think outside the Fox... |
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA kudos:5 | reply to SuperWISP Google, google, google, google, google, google, google, ...
... anything else that you have to say, Brett?
Robb Topolski (not sponsored by Google) |
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 1 edit | said by funchords:Google, google, google, google, google, google, google, ... ... anything else that you have to say, Brett? In this thread, it's all I really need to say. All of the organizations for which you work are puppets on Google's strings, and you have never yet voiced an opinion on this topic that was not 100% consistent with Google's agenda and interests.
But I have said a lot more elsewhere. |
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 | reply to sivran said by sivran:Wow, the extent of your pro-ISP/anti-consumer bias is shocking. We are advocating for our customers' interests. The extent of your ignorance of this is shocking. |
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 1 edit | So the rationing of bandwidth is a consumer interest, huh? Tell me, who specifically designates what a "satisfying experience" is?
The current rationing will only get worse as online video content becomes more prevelant. Failure to upgrade the oversold networks is the main problem. -- BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! |
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 3 edits | said by S_engineer:So the rationing of bandwidth is a consumer interest, huh? Absolutely. If you are going to charge users $30 per month, and 1 Mbps of bandwidth costs you $100 per month at wholesale, you need to carefully ration it. This means shaping traffic and preventing bandwidth hogging. If you don't, you can't give users good Web performance, and other things they need and expect, without charging them $80 to $90 per month for the 768K which the FCC has now tentatively set as its new standard for broadband. To simply raise prices, making service unaffordable, would truly be anti-consumer.
As for upgrading networks: Our networks don't need to be upgraded at the moment. They can already handle far more traffic than they're carrying. But if we can't at least break even on the cost of backbone bandwidth, it makes no difference how much network capacity we have. |
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 sivranBack to Opera againPremium join:2003-09-15 Arlington, TX kudos:1 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to S_engineer said by S_engineer:So the rationing of bandwidth is a consumer interest, huh? Tell me, who specifically designates what a "satisfying experience" is? The current rationing will only get worse as online video content becomes more prevelant. Failure to upgrade the oversold networks is the main problem. Well, given that ol' wispy has no problem at all with flagrant net neutrality violations, and apparently believes web browsing to be the only legitimate use of the internet...  -- In dadkins' memory, Think outside the Fox... |
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 3 edits | said by sivran:Well, given that ol' wispy has no problem at all with flagrant net neutrality violations Well, since there is no common definition of "Net Neutrality," there is no way to determine whether one might be "violating" it. Not that you have the right to tell me how to run my business or manage my network in any case. |
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